new mic/pre for acoustic guitar

[papabodo]

Hello,
at the moment I record my gibson SJ 200 with oktava mk o12 (pair), brauner vm 1 via
pendulum quartet, rme fireface 800 pres.
Okay, roomtreatment is essential and will be optimized step by step, but I think
about buying new mics with the focus on recording acoustic guitar.
Im thinking about a pair of schoeps, but which one ? other/better ideas ?
Also im thinking about an alternative stereo pre, for guitar and maybe vocals.
1073 ? chanddler, better ideas ?
merry christmas
bodo

[vitreouswindows]

What is it about your current set-up that is inviting you to seek new gear? It sounds as though you've got a fine arrangement as it is.

I quite like Schoeps mics, but for acoustic guitar I slightly prefer KM84s.

If you go Chandler, I preferred the LTD-1.

Almost everything you listed would work fine, it just depends upon what you want it to sound like, but the gear you have should yield exceptional results. In contravention to many on this forum, I don't think you need a thing.

[maxy]

I personally don't like the chandler ltd 1 for acoustic. I think it has a hard upper mid range that sounds, uhh, hard on my acoustics with my mics in my room. Of the pres I've used in my room my favorite is probably the portico. I had a pendulum quartet for a while and it sounded cool but for some reason I was just never a big fan. I do think its a great tool and totally worth having.

Just giving my opinions. Hope that helps.

Maxy

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by maxy

I personally don't like the chandler ltd 1 for acoustic. I think it has a hard upper mid range that sounds, uhh, hard on my acoustics with my mics in my room.

The Chandler LTD-1 is by far my fave pre for acoustic guitar (I also have an UA 6176 + 2108, a TG-2 and BA 312As at my disposal).

Fave mic at the moment here for acoustic guitar is a Beyer M201.

[aleatoric]

maybe consider modding your mk012's.....I did and its quite an improvement over stock.

OktavaMod - Affordable Boutique Microphones

[cosmos]

take a look at the Creamy Pendullum MDP-1.

[otobianki74]

my favorite acoustic mic at the moment is a neumann km84...

I've been using it through an api 512c with great results.

oto

[swafford]

Royer 122v on that SJ200.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by papabodo

Hello,
at the moment I record my gibson SJ 200 with oktava mk o12 (pair), brauner vm 1 via
pendulum quartet, rme fireface 800 pres.
Okay, roomtreatment is essential and will be optimized step by step, but I think
about buying new mics with the focus on recording acoustic guitar.
Im thinking about a pair of schoeps, but which one ? other/better ideas ?
Also im thinking about an alternative stereo pre, for guitar and maybe vocals.
1073 ? chanddler, better ideas ?
merry christmas
bodo

As others have inferred, you probably need to cycle through some differnt gear to narrow down to what will work for you.

I record only solo fingerstyle and classical guitar. After years of trying many mics, pres, converters, monitors, etc., I've settled with pairs Schoeps CMC6/MK41, Gefell M295 and Peluso P28 mics and Pendulum MDP-1a, Pendulum SPS-1 and ADK AP2 (w/several tranny and op amps) for preamps. Coupled with many different guitars, there's quite a bit of versatility and range available, all of it good.

In your case, you might want to mod your Oktavas or lose them all together. For an acoustic guitar, mics rule the roost, and the Schoeps and Gefell M29x Series are wonderful. The Peluso P28, a tube based mid-diaphragm, is another great mic that compliments the Schoeps and Gefells nicely (a bit scooped, and a bit edgy/exciting in a nice way). DPA mics are great too.

As far as pres go, there are probably dozens you would like. Of course, its best to check them out in your room with your source material, mics, converters and monitors. Still, a short list could include:

Gordon
John Hardy M-1
Pendulum (either tube or SS)
Forssell
and many others

Good luck!

[Gary Schmitt]

Buy as many mics and pres you can afford. Work with dealers who will let you try before you buy. I would buy at least one clean (pacifica, BG1, Hardy ) and a couple of transformer based pres (Great River, Vintech). With these pres the mic selection won't matter as much, they will make most SDCs, Ribbons, and LDCs sound like butter.

[chrisgraff]

there's a 2-channel Gordon in the emporium right now. It absolutely kills on acoustic guitars.

[pootkao]

+1 on the Portico

[NathanEldred]

Buzz Elixir or Buzz MA2.2TX is a big favorite of mine.

[timray]

(Think I originally put this in the wrong place, over in Remote Recordings….new here.) One of my favorite subjects! Not a pro engineer, but have played a long time and done a bunch of recordings, many of which pro. Currently building a studio...!

I’ll talk about steel string, finger picking, fingernails but no picks, and styles from Travis to Taylor with chordings, so ‘plucking’. You need a quiet and beautiful room, because if you get the mic(s) in too close there is proximity effect, or booming, on certain notes/frequencies, therefore the mics need to be out of boom range so you’ll need a preamp with good headroom. I prefer the Peach 196, which is tube and has MS (see a post by UBK on this great pre); another great choice is the LaChapell 992eg. For a real treat run thru a StaLevel or 176 afterwards. You could use a Helios 69-74 if you were going to thrash the thing with a stiff pick and use make up gain like with a TRS3, for a strum sound…

My experience:

Martin D35, ’64: (mellow axe, beautiful, delicate tone)
70’s Neumann U87: 3 feet out aimed at sound hole: clear, folk picking, was great.
ADK TC AUs w GK12 caps at bridge and 14th fret positions: For a real sparkle and shimmer, clear, present, upper and upper mid boost, clear resonant bass.

McPherson 3.5, 4.5 or 5.0, Collings 000: (all rosewood, brighter tone)
KM54 matched pair at 14th and bridge: bite, mean it baby, wow.
KM264 matched pair at 14th and bridge: gentle shine, great tone, ‘golden’.
KM86 matched pair at 14th and bridge in cardioid: articulate, present, and beautiful.
SM2 in MS: focus, presence, piano vibe, elegant.
U67 3 feet out: clear, massive, present, ‘real’.
U47 3 feet out: for smooching.
SF24 3-5 feet out: ‘being there’, in the room with great tone.
Josephson 617 at 14th and bridge: clear notes without punch or much character, useful but not a star sound.
ADK CS-1 AU w GK12 cap at bridge: fat, mellow and present, sparkle.
Bock 251 3 feet out: very clear, present, shimmer, beautiful.

If your room (church) is good, a U47 in omni as a room mic is delicious.

These are good starting points, just a little mic tweek making a big difference. And it depends on the nature of the song, and primarily how the guitar has to fit with the vocal/mic/pre selection. But all the above sound exceptional; by the way, all of the above are flat, the ‘eq’ done with mic selection and placement. The mics that work on the brighter guitars also work on the old Martin type, the outcome is just sweeter. Still playing with a Pagelli, Turner Compass Rose baritone; and then there's DI thru a Baggs or Waveburner or Schertler to a D-Tar to parallel compression in a LA2A, 1176 for definition, or a reamp into a Victorilux or whatever for subliminal scream blended in... fun zone. I guess I could post some samples if anyone is interested, after my Weiss ADC2 gets here; the AD16x seems to suck the life out of a pristine and well recorded steel string, compared to what i hear direct out of the 8816. Don't know if you'd be able to hear th difference on a MP3, I guess i'll find out...

[papabodo]

Thank you all for your very helpful statements.
Seems, that there are thousands of golden ways to record my sj200.
The setup i use currently is very transparant and clean, i would love to
have some big, collourful sound to compliment my existing setup...
as you said, as much gear as you can afford to stay flexible...
Nobody mentioned the 1073 ??
Thanks again
Bodo

[rjacobsen]

I agree with Nathan, I have a used Buzz Ma 2.2 that I bought a few months ago, it sounds great on a Gibson Heritage I have. I was fortunate to buy it from a guy that would let me try and return it if it didn't like it. I did a bunch of testing with it and it's a wonderful preamp. I used my AT 4050s, Rode Nt5s and a 441 and they all sounded great through the Buzz.
rjacobsen

[stryker]

schoeps 221b and helios type 69

[Barry Lird]

Originally Posted by otobianki74

my favorite acoustic mic at the moment is a neumann km84...

I've been using it through an api 512c with great results.

oto

+1. Depends on the guitar and the track, obviously, but the KM84 is pretty consistently great on acoustics. I love it with an MA5 or an Averill 1073.

[pete murray]

another vote for the buzz ma2.2

[reddirt]

Hi Bodo, your room is such an important determinant in an acoustic's sound that it should in fact take first call. As well as that I would get Michael Joly (Oktava Mod) to mod your Oktavas ( not a big cost) and then see where you sit.
You'll spend heaps of money chasing a sound you'll never get if your room is average because you've compromised the original sound.
Cheers, Ross

[PhilC]

Love KM84's! That's the end of the line for me. 582's and KM54's can be cool for an uber hi-fi representation but they pick up tons of finger squeaking and pick on string sounds. They're also pretty hard sounding.

I REALLY don't like neve pres on acoustics. The top end is not at all what I'm looking for. API's sound great. Cleaner pres in general sound great -- martechs are beautiful.

LA2A's and LA3A's (for different reasons) are the shizzle for guitars of all kinds acoustic or electric. Not really for gain reduction, just running through them.

[Knox]

*smile* . . . I have recorded my 1966 J200 with many different combinations over the years . . . one day I was in a hurry and wanted to throw something down after a vocal session, where the Brauner VM1 was still up . . . I pulled it down next to the J200 and . . . . magic! So I'm with you on the VM1, though as you know, it's almost always a small condenser people reach for. Screw "rules"! *smile* A Telefunken V76 gives a very cool sound on the J200 with the Brauner . . if you want something different. Lucinda Williams or Steve Earle type 'thing' with the V76. A KM84 into the V76 is cool too! A J200 gets a great wood 'vibe', as all Gibsons do. Over any other acoustic guitar to me . . . so I try to stay with that sound and not look for anything too 'high tech'. You may seek a different sound. The VM1 is high tech enough. btw . . of course I never tell anyone about the VM1 choice being an accident . . . I tell them "it's a choice I have made after many years experimenting with dozens of mics"

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Barry Lird

+1. Depends on the guitar and the track, obviously, but the KM84 is pretty consistently great on acoustics. I love it with an MA5 or an Averill 1073.

Although a lot of times I prefer the Sony C800G or a Peluso VTB into an Avedis MA5/ Averill 1073/ Aurora GTQ2!

[mdjice]

I Love a c800 on guitars. Last time we used a sony thru a 737 to record an old guild and it worked great.
I tried my VTB on my martin and didn't like it, it was too harsh. The winner was a C414 thru a 1084 or a 610