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Telefunken Elam 251 AC701 & 6072A tube
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sound delux
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#1
17th December 2008
Old 17th December 2008
  #1
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Telefunken Elam 251 AC701 & 6072A tube

Hoping that someone my be able to comment on the differences between the original Telefunken ELAM 251 with the original AC701 tube and the latter 6072A tube. I know that the 6072A was for export. I guess I am looking for comments on the sonic differences and also which is the more popular, however given that most seem to be 6072A tubed this may be difficult.

Also hope to hear from any users of the current Telefunken USA on the differences between the current 251V (6072A) and the current 251VAC (AC701) versions, if anyboday has had the chance to do the comparison that is.

I am not really interested in the Tele USA 251E.

Cheers and thanks
SD
#2
17th December 2008
Old 17th December 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound delux View Post

Also hope to hear from any users of the current Telefunken USA on the differences between the current 251V (6072A) and the current 251VAC (AC701) versions, if anyboday has had the chance to do the comparison that is.

I am not really interested in the Tele USA 251E.

Cheers and thanks
SD
I've chosen AC701 based on what I heard in other people's studios.
It sounds deeper and wider, it accentuates core qualities of 251.
There is something nice in that tube, although I don't think that E version is less then stellar.
It is just difference between great and fvcking great.
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#3
29th December 2008
Old 29th December 2008
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a clarification

the AC701 was not " the original" tube in a 251. Telefunken made that version simply to satisfy the requirements of german broadcast, who never bought many, if any, in any case. Both versions were available concurrently. My experience has been that I actually prefered the 6072 , altho the ac701 version is certainly more rare, and very very good sounding as well .
As for value for dollar, buying an old one for 18,000. or a new one for 1/3 that? ...the old mics can be great if you get a good one ( they vary tremendously) but ill take the two extra mics for the money, thanks.....
#4
30th December 2008
Old 30th December 2008
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i have the 6072a new version which i love, i wish someone would have post a proper comparison between both.. the AC701 is one of the best tubes ever made for microphones in general..
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30th December 2008
Old 30th December 2008
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If I had my choice today between the identical mic with an AC701 or a 5 star GE 6072, I'd take the 6072. There are plenty available, and they don't cost the $600 each that the last couple AC701s I bought did. On top of it, you can test 6072s. Only a couple people can test AC701s.
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#6
30th December 2008
Old 30th December 2008
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My original 251 resides at a studio I frequently use that's about an hour drive from the house. I sold it to them fairly inexpensively so I would know where it was [over the years I've had 25 or 30 of the things go through my world... this was the best one I had ever heard].

I recently got one of the T'funkUSA "re-issues". It is every bit as good as the one I let go a few years ago.

I am a very happy camper!!
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#7
30th December 2008
Old 30th December 2008
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a) Fletcher, stick to the topic and stop pimping. LOL.

b) For the OP: The "V" is no longer offered. Either you supply them with an original CK12, or you get one with their version.

251s are overrated. Save your money and get an AT 4060, and just use the Antares Mic Modeler.
#8
16th September 2009
Old 16th September 2009
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VivSavage is offline
tube selection 6072 vs. AC701

I think one important thing to consider is how well made and how carefully selected the 6072 was, vs. the AC701. The AC701s are not only a great sounding audio tube, but all made by the same company (Telefunken), and all went through vigorous testing, and all chosen for 250/251s were very carefully selected. The consistency is amazing.

6072s were made by lots of different manufacturers, at varying levels of quality, and consistancy. If you can get a really good NOS GE 5 star (like they came with originally in the E model), they sound wonderful.

Just as it is much easier to find 6072s vs. AC701s, it is much easier to find a relatively crappy 6072 vs. AC701. If you do find an AC701, it is proably going to sound good, and the way you would expect. 6072s not only come in varying levels of quality, but also different brands and eras sound different, and contribute to the opinions on one vs. the other.

When you compare, use extremely high quality NOS 6072s, preferably GE 5 star 1956-1962, or allocations of same tubes with different labels for AirCraft companies (they got the best stuff pre-NASA)(Lear, Burroughs, etc).

With all this said, I prefer the 6072 based on overall tonal balance, and ability to sit in mix, and take EQ.....and I have a lifetime supply of kick ass 6072s. Both are excellent when you have a good one. 6072 can also be changed on the spot (and you can even use different brands to very the "flavor" of your mic based on tube selection), AC701 requires some know-how, some balls, and a soldering iron.....(although I'm sure most of you know all,this)

Avoid crappy 6072s in your fabulous tube mics.....good ones are affordable, and make a HUGE difference. Good AC701....$1000 or more. Good 6072.....$50.

Test for strength and noise of course, but also make sure that both sides are EVEN! Makes a big difference.

My "go to" TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik ELA M 251 E

My less than 2 cents worth.........stike
RCA
#9
27th March 2011
Old 27th March 2011
  #9
RCA
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251

Great thread...
#10
29th March 2011
Old 29th March 2011
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tubbey is offline
good info

Quote:
Originally Posted by VivSavage View Post
I think one important thing to consider is how well made and how carefully selected the 6072 was, vs. the AC701. The AC701s are not only a great sounding audio tube, but all made by the same company (Telefunken), and all went through vigorous testing, and all chosen for 250/251s were very carefully selected. The consistency is amazing.

6072s were made by lots of different manufacturers, at varying levels of quality, and consistancy. If you can get a really good NOS GE 5 star (like they came with originally in the E model), they sound wonderful.

Just as it is much easier to find 6072s vs. AC701s, it is much easier to find a relatively crappy 6072 vs. AC701. If you do find an AC701, it is proably going to sound good, and the way you would expect. 6072s not only come in varying levels of quality, but also different brands and eras sound different, and contribute to the opinions on one vs. the other.

When you compare, use extremely high quality NOS 6072s, preferably GE 5 star 1956-1962, or allocations of same tubes with different labels for AirCraft companies (they got the best stuff pre-NASA)(Lear, Burroughs, etc).

With all this said, I prefer the 6072 based on overall tonal balance, and ability to sit in mix, and take EQ.....and I have a lifetime supply of kick ass 6072s. Both are excellent when you have a good one. 6072 can also be changed on the spot (and you can even use different brands to very the "flavor" of your mic based on tube selection), AC701 requires some know-how, some balls, and a soldering iron.....(although I'm sure most of you know all,this)

Avoid crappy 6072s in your fabulous tube mics.....good ones are affordable, and make a HUGE difference. Good AC701....$1000 or more. Good 6072.....$50.

Test for strength and noise of course, but also make sure that both sides are EVEN! Makes a big difference.

My "go to" TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik ELA M 251 E

My less than 2 cents worth.........stike
Thanks for the info!
#11
29th March 2011
Old 29th March 2011
  #11
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Dark1 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by VivSavage View Post
[...]Test for strength and noise of course, but also make sure that both sides are EVEN! Makes a big difference.[...]
Why would you want to have both sides of a dual-triode like 6072/6072A even in C12/M250/M251 microphones, where only one system is used?
#12
29th March 2011
Old 29th March 2011
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hop.sing is offline
Quote:
but also make sure that both sides are EVEN
Why is this? Isn't just one side used in the Elam?
Tobias
#13
8th April 2011
Old 8th April 2011
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Electrosurplus is offline
I have 4 tubes up for sale

All 4 in perfect condition -I can email pictures up on request. Prim quality, late production

AC701 TELEFUNKEN NOS NIB - Schoeps or Neuman microphone

mint NOS condition, new, box opened only for picture - parfait etat

Boite en parfait état, ouverte une seule fois pour prendre la photo.

email: electrosurplus@free.fr

$500 each

I accept offers for more than one tube

Tubes are now listed at eBay, see item 110675125782

Last edited by Electrosurplus; 8th April 2011 at 01:06 PM.. Reason: added details
#14
8th April 2011
Old 8th April 2011
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan alexander View Post
the AC701 was not " the original" tube in a 251. Telefunken made that version simply to satisfy the requirements of german broadcast, who never bought many, if any, in any case. Both versions were available concurrently. My experience has been that I actually prefered the 6072 , altho the ac701 version is certainly more rare, and very very good sounding as well .
As for value for dollar, buying an old one for 18,000. or a new one for 1/3 that? ...the old mics can be great if you get a good one ( they vary tremendously) but ill take the two extra mics for the money, thanks.....
good historical info.
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