API transformer legacy

[Tillmann]

Hello all,

Can anyone out there tell me what manufacture/model of input and output transformers API has used for the 550A's and 312/512's over the last 35 years? Have they pretty much stuck with the same ones or have they constantly shifted? Perhaps Mr. Wolff could help out with this one?

cheers!

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by Tillmann

Hello all,

Can anyone out there tell me what manufacture/model of input and output transformers API has used for the 550A's and 312/512's over the last 35 years? Have they pretty much stuck with the same ones or have they constantly shifted? Perhaps Mr. Wolff could help out with this one?

cheers!

This is true for many companies, most of which discovered the same results in the 90's, some actually had records of it and just needed to find a substitute.

The original output transformers for just about all manufacturers in the "old days" had one thing that was done to them that was unknown by most of the the manufacturers because they never specified it and the winders just always did it.

This was a process that used ribbon like wire, where all the 4 windings were wound at the same time, to save money and time. This is why when you take apart an old transformer, it looks so orderly. The funny part is that the laquer used to glue them together turned to powder and no one could figure out why they old transformers sounded good and the new ones had an 80KHz peak.

Around 1976, it appears that the ribbon wire either got very expensive or just went away, and since most manufacturers had never specked this, the transformers were from then on wound with the 4 winding from 4 spools of wire. This cause inconsistant wrapping and hence the peak in the HF, which extends into the audio band, making the transformer sound a bit brighter.

Around 1997, it was discovered and identified, and the experimenting began, with the result being a type of wire called LITZ wire, which is a group of 4 wires twisted together at some interval and then wound around the bobbin. This created the same effect as the ribbon wire and identical results.

That is why some of the newer things out there now, finally, sound like the older ones.

Many companies discovered this, as LITZ wire has been around since WWII and was developed, like everything else, by the Germans.

Many mic transformers used the ribbon wire and a lot of them sounded different in the late 70's for the same reason.

[Tillmann]

That's fascinating. Thank you for the info. Those Germans had some amazing discoveries back in the day. The reason I ask is that I have a few older 312's and 550's that are somehow, unbeknownst to me, missing the output transformers. i'm wondering if there would be a suitable modern replacement for them and where i could get them from.

Cheers!

[thearnicasync]

You may want to try dan alexander...he seems to have spares. The output tx you're looking for is, ideally, the 2503. That is, if you want it to be "API". For a relatively short time, Profile Electronics made a 2503-style output, but there are legal actions pending (for copyright?) - these used to be part of the 7th circle kits. They look identical to 2503's and I believe use identical core materials. Now, cinemag may be your best bet...they're supplying the Seventh Circle api clone kits, and Tim does his homework...I assume it's pretty much dead on. And Tom R. is just ridiculously nice, much like the other pro audio guru-guys...avedis, hardy, et. al.

[Tillmann]

cheers for the info!

Tillmann

[fluxivity]

Interesting thread. I wonder if anyone can shed some light on my old melcor eq transformers. They are a two band eq and have a smaller trafo than the API2503. Does anyone have a guess on the specs of these? Or a ph # or email of someone who might?
thanks

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by thearnicasync

You may want to try dan alexander...he seems to have spares. The output tx you're looking for is, ideally, the 2503. That is, if you want it to be "API". For a relatively short time, Profile Electronics made a 2503-style output, but there are legal actions pending (for copyright?) - these used to be part of the 7th circle kits. They look identical to 2503's and I believe use identical core materials. Now, cinemag may be your best bet...they're supplying the Seventh Circle api clone kits, and Tim does his homework...I assume it's pretty much dead on. And Tom R. is just ridiculously nice, much like the other pro audio guru-guys...avedis, hardy, et. al.

Like I said, the new ones from API are almost a dead match for the old ones. I would buy them rather than an old one that I wasn't sure about. Always buy in pairs. Profile always made them up 'till a few years ago. Their transformers were also the ones that had the peaks and is the reason they are not making them any longer. If they are selling them, it is wrong, as it is not their property. If some cloner wants to sell transformers, get an education and design your own. I don't know where this person gets his information, but like usual, it is based on rumors and not fact.

Anyone else that makes ones that will fit won't sound the same, but may sound very good in other ways.

There are many things that go into a transformer. I spent 6 months designing mine, with about 50 prototypes before I settled on the Tonelux final design. The original designers at API didn't just pull it out of their asses either. It took Jeff and I about 9 years to finally figure out the problem with the 1978-on transformers when I owned API. Then another year to get the new ones to sound old again. I was very happy with the results.

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by fluxivity

Interesting thread. I wonder if anyone can shed some light on my old melcor eq transformers. They are a two band eq and have a smaller trafo than the API2503. Does anyone have a guess on the specs of these? Or a ph # or email of someone who might?
thanks

They might be the same and might not. Depends on if they were before API or after. If it looks different, then it is different. It's not like the lottery. Just because someone came from somewhere else mean that all of a sudden the older stuff is like the newer stuff. Then, sometimes it is.

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by Tillmann

That's fascinating. Thank you for the info. Those Germans had some amazing discoveries back in the day. The reason I ask is that I have a few older 312's and 550's that are somehow, unbeknownst to me, missing the output transformers. i'm wondering if there would be a suitable modern replacement for them and where i could get them from.

Cheers!

They also had night vision at the end of WWII

[Tillmann]

speaking of melcor, does anyone know a bit about the history of melcor and how they came into contact with API? I am under the impression that both companies were located in Farmingdale, NY at the same time for a while and I have heard that Melcor designers left Melcor and joined Saul Walker to form the original core of designers at API. Is that true? How long did Melcor keep building audio gear?

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by Tillmann

speaking of melcor, does anyone know a bit about the history of melcor and how they came into contact with API? I am under the impression that both companies were located in Farmingdale, NY at the same time for a while and I have heard that Melcor designers left Melcor and joined Saul Walker to form the original core of designers at API. Is that true? How long did Melcor keep building audio gear?

From what I gathered over the years, it was sort of a mutiny.

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by ToneLux

They also had night vision at the end of WWII

alot of good that did them....

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by Teacher

alot of good that did them....

I talked to a guy that said on a German destroyer (at the end of the war) there was this what looked like a telescope that was a foot in diameter that turned out to be a night vision scope, based on a large vacuum tube with a high voltage charge and a few lenses, with a mic wind screen like loop with phosphorous stretched like a nylon stocking across it. The HV differential would accelerate the photons (light coming in), striking the loop and illuminating it. The rate of acceleration is the light amplification factor, this one was about 2-4 times normal, which meant that they could see us before we could see them. Night vision of today is the same concept, but is now up to more than 100,000 times.

[Tillmann]

Originally Posted by ToneLux

From what I gathered over the years, it was sort of a mutiny.

Sorry, could you please clarify what that means? That could be taken in several different ways.

Cheers

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by Tillmann

Sorry, could you please clarify what that means? That could be taken in several different ways.

Cheers

I think people may have seen a better opportunity "elsewhere" and left. Don't know for sure.