Toft ATB or PT HD??

[rossrooney]

Hi,
Long time reader, first time poster here.
Just looking for a heads up on what's the best road to take to reach my final goal (PT HD, Apogee AD/DA 16ax, Toft ATB and a bunch of nice outboard Compressors etc).

Currently, i use a Digi002R, AD16ax, and some average( but nice ) pres.
I'm using an old Yamaha O2r to route synths etc to/from the digi. I connect the pres directly to the apogee, then into the O2R(adat) and then into PT when recording artists.
When mixing, i route the analogue outs from the digi into the 9-16 of the apogee and then out thru the adat into the O2R....giving me 16 tracks in the O2R. I dont use any of the FX or EQ on the desk, just using it as big (huge) summing mixer/headphone cue box.

My question, should i go HD first, get maybe a DA16ax for monitoring/inserts etc and mix ITB?

or (my prefered option)

Get an ATB 24 or 32 (Alan from PMI has got me an ok deal on a 24), the DA16ax for 8 good d/a and just use the analogue out of the OO2 for the time being?

Regards
Ross

[Teo Macero]

I would be very interested as well...I'm almost looking at the same upgrade you're undergoing, only without the O2R. I respect your dedication working with that thing....they had one of those at my college and the teacher said, if you can work those you can work anything....he wasn't kidding.

Anyway, I'm curious about the Toft ATB as well. There's a 16 channel unit available on the Dutch ebay site (marktplaats.nl) for €2500. That's not bad.
As far as which to get first, I would probably go for HD first, then the console. There comes a point when your workload increases and HD becomes a necessity in the studio. Maybe there's another console that catches your ear along the way. Who knows...Because you're obviously considering OTB vs ITB mixing. With PT(HD), you know what you get and it's totally in your hands. A 'main' console will automatically colour your mix in its own way, so you might want to be careful. At least for me, this is the reason I'm still "looking/listening around".

btw doesn't the Toft have a Digital Option (AD/DA) card?

[Tonio Ruiz]

I just went for that road my friend

I was using 002r along with a Yamaha DM1000, mostly for mixing purposes. and I routed just like that, only that I did use the DM1000 dsp and inserts so I can use my outboard gear

anyway, I thought a lot about what move to take, and as I like to mix the most OTB as possible I went for the toft atb32, and as I couldn't afford a HD system I had to switch to MOTU HD192 system in order to have multiple outs, it's working pretty good, I'll try to get the PT HD as soon as possible but for now, I have my analog setup and I love how it sounds, I just miss PT.

I don't know if this helps but, that's how it all went down

happy shopping!!!

[kurt]

Originally Posted by Teo Macero

I would be very interested as well...I'm almost looking at the same upgrade you're undergoing, only without the O2R. I respect your dedication working with that thing....they had one of those at my college and the teacher said, if you can work those you can work anything....he wasn't kidding.

Anyway, I'm curious about the Toft ATB as well. There's a 16 channel unit available on the Dutch ebay site (marktplaats.nl) for €2500. That's not bad.
As far as which to get first, I would probably go for HD first, then the console. There comes a point when your workload increases and HD becomes a necessity in the studio. Maybe there's another console that catches your ear along the way. Who knows...Because you're obviously considering OTB vs ITB mixing. With PT(HD), you know what you get and it's totally in your hands. A 'main' console will automatically colour your mix in its own way, so you might want to be careful. At least for me, this is the reason I'm still "looking/listening around".

btw doesn't the Toft have a Digital Option (AD/DA) card?

I would keep gear I know & grab mixer first. Work out all patch bay & wiring problems. Get the thing to know. Work out a good workflow & then proceed with another, so complex & complicated task.

[rossrooney]

Thanks, good advice both ways. I think Kurt could be right, slotting the mixer in would be relatively painless and it would be there to stay, hooked to the AD/DA, synths, outboard etc. The thought of going HD...I've got the old G5 Quad (not PCIe) so does that mean that i should change the Mac (no point in buying PCI cards if i'll only have to upgrade them at some time.
By the way Teo, they don't think they'll have that Digital option for sale untill middle 2009 (they hope)!
A question for you, Tonio....
Did you patch everything? or did you hard wire a couple of your favourite bits of outboard gear to the groups.

Thanks for the advice.
Hard to find people this neck of the woods(apart for salesmen!) to bounce things off.

[rossrooney]

Just checked out your studio Tonio....thats a lovely desk that you have the Toft resting in...is it Argosy? I'd like something similar but with maybe my Command 8 sitting to the right of the Toft. If it's the argosy, would it fit?
Thanks
Rossthumbsup

[G-Spot]

I would go with the ATB and get rid of de 002R, buy the M-Audio Profire 2626 with Pro Tools M-Powered, and then buy ATA plug-in from Mellowmuse and your problems with Hardware latency are gonne.

The 2626 has much better i/o possibilities than any 002 or 003, specially because it has ADAT S/Mux, meaning that you can start running external converters at higher sampler rates than 48K. You can also use the A/D conversion of the 2626 as standalone this way bypassing the pres of the 2626 if you don't like them. thumbsup

Do a search on the 2626...

[ProFool]

I'm in the middle of designing a new room and expanding my setup, after seeing a video of Junky XL in his studio in LA it inspired me to use 2 computers and 2 digi 002's with my toft Atb 16 and 2x 8 extra channels of i/o. one system i would route for recording and editing, looping, making sounds etc etc and the other system for the mix files and mixing, all nicely organized. I have considered the 2626 though, i still have time to figure it out, the carpenting starts in may.

[rossrooney]

G-spot,

Had a quick look at that 2626....just to check how it would work...

I could send 16 pres into my Apogee AD16ax, then optical out(2) from this into the 2626, and all these tracks are firewired into the Mac? Will PT Mpowered accept two sets of adat, i.e 16 simultaneous tracks?
If so, that's sweet , i presume ( because i've used the apogee converters and still in the digital domain that i'm still getting the benefit of the apogee a/d)?

If i had the apogee da16x, could i do the reverse and have the 16 analogues outs from the apogee da into the Toft ATB, using the Profire2626 as a kinda splitter?

Any loss in sound quality with this in's and outs?

and just to clarify...that's 16 simultaneoues in/out (18 with the spdif)

One more thing....have you done this/ is it your set up

I've never used PT M Powered....is it identical to PTLE?

Thanks for the ideas and i'd really appreciate your thoughts.

Ross

[G-Spot]

Originally Posted by Roscoe Pico

G-spot,

Had a quick look at that 2626....just to check how it would work...

I could send 16 pres into my Apogee AD16ax, then optical out(2) from this into the 2626, and all these tracks are firewired into the Mac? Will PT Mpowered accept two sets of adat, i.e 16 simultaneous tracks?
If so, that's sweet , i presume ( because i've used the apogee converters and still in the digital domain that i'm still getting the benefit of the apogee a/d)?

If i had the apogee da16x, could i do the reverse and have the 16 analogues outs from the apogee da into the Toft ATB, using the Profire2626 as a kinda splitter?

Any loss in sound quality with this in's and outs?

and just to clarify...that's 16 simultaneoues in/out (18 with the spdif)

One more thing....have you done this/ is it your set up

I've never used PT M Powered....is it identical to PTLE?

Thanks for the ideas and i'd really appreciate your thoughts.

Ross

Hi, you're welcome. That's why we are here... to share and help!

I still have my 002, but I will buy the 2626 shortly.
(I've spent a bunch on high end equipment so the 2626 has to wait ).

But yes, in the paper you can have 16 in and 16 outs from and to your Apogees, but only at 44.1 and 48KHz I think. Then it's 8X8 at 98KHz and 4x4 at 192KHz. But before you go to the store, have a look to post '434' and '435' in this thread. (Actually you should read the all thread ).

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...re-2626-a.html

'peeder' has been using one 2626, so he's the right guy to answer the questions.

If you only need a "Pro Tools M-powered-dongle-ADAT-splitter" have a look to the Profire Lightbridge with 34in /36out ADAT. But have a good look before you buy the Lightbridge... I've seen people reporting problems with it... but maybe more recent drivers solved the problems... I don't know.

ProFire LightBridge, 96K, WC???

Is Everyone Having Problems With Their Profire Lightbridege? READ THIS!!

M-Powered does not give you the option to use DV Toolkit (the only way to get SMPTE to work with picture) nor to use the upcoming "Complete Production Tool Kit" which would give you 128 tracks and surround mixing. I can't remeber of anything else... but maybe there's something else.

Do a research here in Gearslutz, there a couple of posts that will help you.

[mltamisin]

Go HD. You won't be sorry. No more headaches and you'll get total recall mixing ITB.

[espen askelad]

I tried doing something like that early this year. Initially went with an ATB24 & SSL Alphalink w/ Logic and DP. UGH.
My ATB arrived with issues and developed more over three weeks, to the point where it was unusable and my faith in it's build was just too shaken to feel I could rely on it even after repairs. That combined with my just plainly preferring PT over DP and Logic, I sent back the ATB and went for an HD/Aurora 16 setup. Absolutely no complaints beyond the ridiculous initial pricing - but I'm working faster, my work sounds better, and I'm getting more new clients than before. So in the end, nice. Still trying to figure out the board situation, but as for now, I'm doing well with my hardware inserts for mixing.

[Dirty Halo]

Someone mentioned the Digital Card...

I own an ATB 24 and spoke with PMI because I was doing some mods (ok , not perfectly relevant, but this)...

I'm pretty sure PMI decided NOT pursue doing the digital option for the console, even though hey still (as far as I know) have that space in the console.

Just for your inforamtion.

My opinion of the Toft ATB is a BIG

IMO, the best positive contribution you can make to your sound for the money spent.

(In other words, the biggest bang for your buck!)

-Andrews

[dan p]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

My opinion of the Toft ATB is a BIG

IMO, the best positive contribution you can make to your sound for the money spent.

(In other words, the biggest bang for your buck!)

-Andrews

Yup,agree here as well.For the last year i've been doing ruff mixes thru toft 32 then making files for my engineer to mix itb.He does a great job but my writing partner and i think there is something about the toft that sounds great.Our ruff mixes have sounded really good and the board sound quality is up there.Like Andrews said,lots of bang for the buck.


Dan P

[Tonio Ruiz]

Originally Posted by Roscoe Pico

A question for you, Tonio....
Did you patch everything? or did you hard wire a couple of your favourite bits of outboard gear to the groups.

Thanks for the advice.
Hard to find people this neck of the woods(apart for salesmen!) to bounce things off.

Hi Roscoe

I have a patchbay in which I have all the outboard gear, the atb's inserts and some aux sends and returns wired to, the motu hd192 and a 1224 are hardwired to the line inputs on the atb (as I don't need to send the DAW signal anywhere else) and I kinda prefer it that way

I wish I had all the ins and outs on the atb wired to a TT patchbay but I haven't got the money for that either, hopefully this new year I'll get that done though. meanwhile I'm using a "B word" (Behringer) 1/4 patchbay it's doing the job anyway...

I don't have anything plugged to the subgroups cause I use them to run busses while mixing (was that your question??)

cheers mate

[Tonio Ruiz]

Originally Posted by Roscoe Pico

Just checked out your studio Tonio....thats a lovely desk that you have the Toft resting in...is it Argosy? I'd like something similar but with maybe my Command 8 sitting to the right of the Toft. If it's the argosy, would it fit?
Thanks
Rossthumbsup

Thank a lot,

the desk was custom made by a carpenter, nor argosy or omnirax or any other brand are available over here, anyway having it custom made help a lot on specific needs and sizes

it ended up very cool and confortable

I wish my little room was bigger though, I'm quite tight and limited in there

[rossrooney]

Thanks for everyones' 2 cents...it all makes a difference.
Spent the day mixing , and everything seems to sound that little bit smaller when i a/b it with something i like.
My problem is a few fold...summing into an O2R dfegad and my lack of knowledge of getting a big sound ITB ( albeit slightly OTB on account of the digital mixer!).
Too many parameters to worry about when bouncing down, it always seems to loose something....maybe it's just my ears ( well the right one anyway...i'm a bass player & years of being to close to a snare drum has taken a victim!).

I'm really leaning towards the Toft, just worried about converters etc.
I think i'd sacrifice pristine d/a for the sound of an old board ...

Need to do more research on that MAudio 2626, might be the solution.

Thanks again

[zakco]

Originally Posted by Teo Macero

There comes a point when your workload increases and HD becomes a necessity in the studio.

Shhh....Peeder will hear you....

[rossrooney]

HI,

Just checking something on the toft....

I have limited outboard gear, so i need to process a couple of tracks at a time...

So here is the scenario...
I've recorded my instrument, mixing it (DA to mon in) using the Toft EQ and whatever insert may be on that channel.
I now want to print this back into PT so that i can use the outboard on another channel.
Is the mon in routed to the direct out or is the DO only in relation to the Line in/Channel in.
Thanks
Ross