regret switching away from PTHD?

[blumediaprojekt]

Anyone here recently switched away from a PTHD system to something else? I'm considering making the move away from PT but the fear of regret is definitely here.

I'm currently running an HD2 w/ a rosetta 800 and a Lucid 24192. I run mostly TDM plugs and have great appreciation for leaving the CPU free for whatever else may come up. I've also got tons of outboard synth gear that is in use on everything so latency is a serious concern of mine when considering a native system.

Any thoughts?

[malgfunk]

Logic 8 with Apogee Symphony > Mac Pro > Done.

[DCommand]

never!

[Empire Prod]

It really depends upon how you work. I almost always mix on an analog console with outboard gear and I use very few software plugins, so to me I care very little whether or not I am on PTHD,Nuendo,Logic,DP etc because the platform is being utilized in only the most basic of ways (editing etc). If you are getting a lot of outside work from other studios, you get tired of transfers, so PTHD is nice to have. I have them all, and tend to use the format that the project was started on.

[jslevin]

I think it all depends how much group tracking and overdubbing you're going to be doing. If you do a fair amount of that and don't have a nice analog console situation, I think you'll miss the HD thing badly.

Few things are more foolish than trading in HD for Symphony, which is nearly as proprietary and hardly saves you any money -- all while abandoning the industry standard software and session format.

JSL

[tomdarude]

Originally Posted by jslevin

I think it all depends how much group tracking and overdubbing you're going to be doing. If you do a fair amount of that and don't have a nice analog console situation, I think you'll miss the HD thing badly.

Few things are more foolish than trading in HD for Symphony, which is nearly as proprietary and hardly saves you any money -- all while abandoning the industry standard software and session format.

JSL

wise advice here...

Originally Posted by malgfunk

Logic 8 with Apogee Symphony > Mac Pro > Done.

Do you use busses?
Do you use parallel processing/sends?
Do you have outboard on the I/O plugin inserts?
Do you have multi-miked sources or only seperate (VI) tracks?
Do you mix down ITB?


Regardless of interface/converters/latency specs....ALL those things in my experience don´t work in Logic (my fear is, they don´t work in any native app).
Logic is a powerful app....I use it since ages, though it´s not a "Studio in a Box" and it doesn´t work as advertised, because the most important basic things are flawed!

Keep the HD! or get a Fairlight CC-1


my 2cts.

[kenboy]

STAY WITH PRO TOOLS !!!!!!!

I regret every day that I sold my HD2 rig to jump on the logic bandwagon.

I find the program to be very unstable. For making techno I'm sure it's great, but for turnem and burnem recording it sucks.

just my 2

[blumediaprojekt]

Originally Posted by tomdarude

Do you use busses?

Always.

Originally Posted by tomdarude

Do you use parallel processing/sends?

Excessively.

Originally Posted by tomdarude

Do you have outboard on the I/O plugin inserts?

On every song.

Originally Posted by tomdarude

Do you have multi-miked sources or only seperate (VI) tracks?

Not often multi-mic's as I work almost exclusively with synthesizers and the only time I mic something is when I pull out a guitar amp. But, I do sometimes track through outboard @ full wet and then mix in with the dry track (keeps gear and DSP free later in the mix).

Originally Posted by tomdarude

Do you mix down ITB?

Yes.


These are definitely some great questions. The mixer in PT is what I love most. It's ridiculously simple and I have rarely run into a situation where I can't accomplish something that I wanted.

PS: This is my private system and I don't take outside work.

Thanks for all the comments!

[sodium glow]

A few years ago I switched from a PT TDM system to a Nuendo system. Do I regret it? No. Did it take some adjustments? Yes.

I do mostly mixing..98% of the time I am ITB with some analog 2 buss processing.(A Designs Hammer EQ-sometimes through some Neve Pre's etc.) So on the mixing front I quite prefer Nuendo to PT.

On the tracking side of things I would've had to give PT the nod until recently. I have started monitoring through the software while tracking even if there is an analog console in the studio where I am working. I do this because I make better decisions while tracking if I know I'm gonna be mixing it ITB. That way I'm not making decisions based on the playback through the console and whatever color the console imparts sonically.

Anyway the computers have gotten fast enough for me to monitor through the software natively at a buffer setting of 64 samples without any issues. And thw whole control room section in Nuendo is amazing! I still use PT because you have to if you wanna play with the rest of the world..but my primary platform is Nuendo these days and I really dig it!

[dubrichie]

Originally Posted by blumediaprojekt

Always.

These are definitely some great questions. The mixer in PT is what I love most. It's ridiculously simple and I have rarely run into a situation where I can't accomplish something that I wanted.

indeed they are great questions.

i heartily agree with your enthusiasm for the simplicity of the PT mixer, interface and operation in general.

bottom line is that you already have a fully functional system that is working well for you and allowing you to work well.

if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

why put yourself through learning a whole new DAW system, the good, the bad and the ugly?

it will cost you money to make the change.

Logic is less stable / reliable - FACT.

as stated above, several basic routing and mixing functions that you use regularly in PT do not function properly in Logic.

would the bells and whistles offered by Logic make everything that you would have to go through to get them worthwhile?

if you're already on a Mac just buy a copy of Logic and take it for a test drive before committing to making the big jump. if you're not on a Mac maybe rent one with Logic on it, or some time at a studio with Logic.

get PT8 when it comes out in the next month and stop worrying about it! make some music! OR obsess over which sexy hardware compressor to buy next!

[huarez]

I really think the PT Upgrade thing sucks a lot, so I thought about trying something new. Bought myself Logic to make the jump, and all I can say, that I´m very glad that I´ve kept my HD Rig. With my C 24, it just works great.

[blumediaprojekt]

Originally Posted by dubrichie

indeed they are great questions.
get PT8 when it comes out in the next month and stop worrying about it! make some music! OR obsess over which sexy hardware compressor to buy next!

"Making music" is why this curiosity has started with me. I'm, for the most part, a strictly hardware guy when it comes to sequencing (i love my step sequencers), but lately I've been screwing around with using midi tracks in PT for things like polyphonic parts. On this limited basis, it has been quite nice, but has got me thinking of all the other possibilities for using the DAW as one of my composition tools. Things like midi CC lfo's and arpeggiators could definitely be fun.

[nas]

Originally Posted by tomdarude

wise advice here...



Do you use busses?
Do you use parallel processing/sends?
Do you have outboard on the I/O plugin inserts?
Do you have multi-miked sources or only seperate (VI) tracks?
Do you mix down ITB?


Regardless of interface/converters/latency specs....ALL those things in my experience don´t work in Logic (my fear is, they don´t work in any native app).
Logic is a powerful app....I use it since ages, though it´s not a "Studio in a Box" and it doesn´t work as advertised, because the most important basic things are flawed!

Keep the HD! or get a Fairlight CC-1


my 2cts.

I do pretty much all those things (perhaps with the exception of parallel processing/sends) In Logic 8 with no problems.

It's worth mentioning that I use logic as a full production tool from composing/MIDI sequencing - tracking live - editing and mixing ITB.

Perhaps some programs/DAWs do certain things better but for an all-in-one tool I find Logic 8 to be an excellent program. thumbsup Of course there's always room for improvement and YMMV.

[johngoodmanson]

i've been trying to switch to logic from HD and it's been a royal pain. multitrack recording and editing in logic is buggy beyond belief. i love logic's instruments and i think that the mixer sounds much better than ptools HD - but i can no longer apologize to clients for delays and crashes because of my choice of software. i'm winding up cutting in ptools and mixing in logic - and now my brain is having trouble keeping track of which keyboard shortcuts work for which platform (i know, i'm going to have to program my macros in logic to be the same as PT). If you're happy with the sound of the ptools mixer i'd say stick with that...

A couple pals have suggested Nuendo/Cuebase - folks whose ears I trust and who work on the kind of music that I do - they seem really happy with that platform.

I'm also waiting to check out PT 8 (I haven't heard if they've changed anything about the mix engine)...

anyone have thoughts about that?

-jg

[Jamzone]

Originally Posted by johngoodmanson

i've been trying to switch to logic from HD and it's been a royal pain. multitrack recording and editing in logic is buggy beyond belief. i love logic's instruments and i think that the mixer sounds much better than ptools HD - but i can no longer apologize to clients for delays and crashes because of my choice of software. i'm winding up cutting in ptools and mixing in logic - and now my brain is having trouble keeping track of which keyboard shortcuts work for which platform (i know, i'm going to have to program my macros in logic to be the same as PT). If you're happy with the sound of the ptools mixer i'd say stick with that...

A couple pals have suggested Nuendo/Cuebase - folks whose ears I trust and who work on the kind of music that I do - they seem really happy with that platform.

I'm also waiting to check out PT 8 (I haven't heard if they've changed anything about the mix engine)...

anyone have thoughts about that?

-jg

I don't get all the bugs in Logic?? Super stable on my Macpro 8-core... Old crappy computer maybe??

[visiblesound]

I've never regretted it. I made a living for many years on Pro Tools working on feature films and doing music composition and production. Since switching to Logic, I get so much more done so much faster. It's also nice not to be held hostage by a company that forces you to use their hardware and pay way too much for plugins. I think Pro Tools is the best solution for some people, but not for me. For things like writing orchestral music and streaming tons of samples, Pro Tools just doesn't even come close to Logic. All the DAW's have their strengths and they are all really powerful. It's just a matter of choosing the best one for your work flow. For me, Logic works really, really well. Nuendo is a close second for me. If I was only working on feature films these days, Pro Tools would probably still be the main tool.

VS

[visiblesound]

By the way, I forgot to add that Logic 8 is at least as stable as Pro Tools has ever been for me, and now I don't have to wait a year for the software to be compatible with the latest operating system updates. I'm not sure where the people who are saying that Pro Tools is more stable are getting that idea. I've been using both for many years, and I can tell you in my experience on OSX, Logic is at least as stable as Pro Tools. Can't speak for Windows. I do still use Pro Tools, so I'm not just bashing it. I just prefer other systems for the work I do these days.

VS

[Tonio Ruiz]

I used Protools LE since version 5, It suits me so nice, I love PT, but as I like to mix OTB and use analog mixer and outboard I needed at least 32 outputs, and as I cannot afford a HD rig right now, I had to move away from PT meanwhile hopefully I can save that much money for it

I moved to Motu HD192 Digital Performer rig, it's getting the job done but I'm am not as happy as I was with PT, and I regret that I have not the money for it and that it is so darn expensive

I miss my PT

I still have my digi002 rig but, I'm not using PT as my front end for now, and I miss it like hell

[SoundEng1]

Protools LE & Logic on my home system Working Great here. thumbsup

[blumediaprojekt]

So i've got logic 8 on my laptop now. I guess I've gotten too used to having the DSP there to lean on. My brand new mbp c2d is barely able to run 3 synths w/ a few compressors and a reverb. I can't imagine running one of my standard sessions like this (8 live inputs always, tons of bussing and plugins).

[Aearth]

I have Logic Studio 8/Ensemble that I use for quick recording...... ideas, demos and song writing, great tool. For serious recording and mixing the HD3 gets the job all the time.

nIC

[nas]

Originally Posted by johngoodmanson

i've been trying to switch to logic from HD and it's been a royal pain. multitrack recording and editing in logic is buggy beyond belief. i love logic's instruments and i think that the mixer sounds much better than ptools HD - but i can no longer apologize to clients for delays and crashes because of my choice of software. i'm winding up cutting in ptools and mixing in logic - and now my brain is having trouble keeping track of which keyboard shortcuts work for which platform (i know, i'm going to have to program my macros in logic to be the same as PT). If you're happy with the sound of the ptools mixer i'd say stick with that...

A couple pals have suggested Nuendo/Cuebase - folks whose ears I trust and who work on the kind of music that I do - they seem really happy with that platform.

I'm also waiting to check out PT 8 (I haven't heard if they've changed anything about the mix engine)...

anyone have thoughts about that?

-jg

I've been using Logic since version 4.X and generally have found it to be very stable and trouble free. Just recently though, I was getting a TON of crashes and was freaking out! Well after some trial and error, I traced my problems back to a faulty eSATA express card that I had recently purchased. So I got rid of the card and just upgraded my audio interface drivers.

Since then, Logic has been rock solid. Perhaps some of the problems you're having with stability can be traced to hardware or driver issues? even if you're not getting those crashes with other software DAW's or setups it could be specific compatibility issues with Logic ?

[Levi]

For me, IMHO, it seems that most platforms and softwares are pretty much identical in the "features" realm. When people ask me what DAW/ software to go with, I ask them about workflow. I think you have to find which software works with your brain the best, what allows you to work efficiently, what allows you to put the most money in your bank account, etc. For me, I like the Cubase/ Nuendo programs. However, I have a small PT LE setup for compatibility. Both are fine, but based on my priority-of-work, Cubase is wonderful. Love how it feels, love how it sounds. Pretty darn stable. I couldn't justify the proprietary hardware of HD. Native is pretty fast now and the plugins available are fantastic.

If need be, buy a PT LE rig to keep at hand. When clients ask if you use PT, you can say resoundingly "YES I DO!"

[elambo]

Originally Posted by blumediaprojekt

regret switching away from PTHD?

Right, like anyone would admit it...

[KingUgly]

Originally Posted by johngoodmanson

i've been trying to switch to logic from HD and it's been a royal pain. multitrack recording and editing in logic is buggy beyond belief. i love logic's instruments and i think that the mixer sounds much better than ptools HD - but i can no longer apologize to clients for delays and crashes because of my choice of software. i'm winding up cutting in ptools and mixing in logic - and now my brain is having trouble keeping track of which keyboard shortcuts work for which platform (i know, i'm going to have to program my macros in logic to be the same as PT). If you're happy with the sound of the ptools mixer i'd say stick with that...

A couple pals have suggested Nuendo/Cuebase - folks whose ears I trust and who work on the kind of music that I do - they seem really happy with that platform.

I'm also waiting to check out PT 8 (I haven't heard if they've changed anything about the mix engine)...

anyone have thoughts about that?

-jg

Just that I'm in the same boat as you. Logic does indeed sound amazing. I just finished an album half in Logic/half in PT LE, and the difference is night and day. Logic is a very musical sounding program. Though I struggled through the Logic sessions with glitches and apologies to the client. "Logic is being illogical again," we'd say. I guess Cubase/Nuendo will be my next stop. In the end it's all about what it sounds like, and at this point, Logic kills PT LE in my opinion. But I can't deal with the work flow and the editing is atrocious.

[visiblesound]

Originally Posted by elambo

Right, like anyone would admit it...

Anyone with actual skills and not just a famous brand name DAW would be happy to admit it if they found a platform that better suits their workflow.

VS

[scking]

I recently switched hardware to HD1 and have been really regretting it. Things that used to be no problem in Logic are now a major pain so I'm going back to a native system.

However, if you're used to Pro Tools software on HD hardware and you have a stable system that allows you to be efficient, you should probably stick with it. There will always be a learning curve when you change out part of your system.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by visiblesound

By the way, I forgot to add that Logic 8 is at least as stable as Pro Tools has ever been for me, and now I don't have to wait a year for the software to be compatible with the latest operating system updates. I'm not sure where the people who are saying that Pro Tools is more stable are getting that idea. I've been using both for many years, and I can tell you in my experience on OSX, Logic is at least as stable as Pro Tools. Can't speak for Windows. I do still use Pro Tools, so I'm not just bashing it. I just prefer other systems for the work I do these days.

Where do I even start for the ridiculous ideas expressed here?

1. Anyone who complains about waiting a year for OS compatibility is, by definition, not serious about his/her DAW as a professional working environment. Having the latest (and not necessarily greatest) OS version is extremely low on the priority list for any serious professional. (And yes, even if you can't buy a new computer with a compatible OS anymore. Buy a used one. Priorities, either you're professional, committed to stability, or you're not.)

2. Seems to me there's a vast majority that finds PTHD more stable than Logic, particularly in a complex multitrack recording setting. You may be the exception.

3. One thing you can say for PTHD, once they announce compatibility with a certain configuration, it works, and its working is guaranteed. If Apple announces compatibility and it doesn't work, you basically get a shrug, very rarely an acknowledgment of the bug, and typically six to 12 months until a bug fix, if they don't just release a new major version first.

Glad it works for you, but your example isn't going to help most people.

JSL

[severe]

Originally Posted by scking

I recently switched hardware to HD1 and have been really regretting it. Things that used to be no problem in Logic are now a major pain so I'm going back to a native system.

However, if you're used to Pro Tools software on HD hardware and you have a stable system that allows you to be efficient, you should probably stick with it. There will always be a learning curve when you change out part of your system.

scking,

Could you elaborate a bit? What specifically were the drawbacks with your HD system?

You mention the learning curve. Did you find it was more of that than PT's performance/stability?

[TonyBelmont]

I don't regret selling my HD system.