need ideas for Alt.Country/Americana DRUM MICING

[Dynodawg]

Unfortunatley, I don't have a lot of experience using different micing techniqes on drums scince most of the material I record is acoustic folk and bluegrass. When I have mic'd drums, I mainly use the 2 overhead, kick and snare method.
I have a session comming up next week for a new CD project which is Alternative Country/Americana in nature and thought I may try method other than close micing and overheads. Could someone with some solid experience with this genre give me some advice?

The mics I have to work with are:
Lawson L-47mp
(2) rode NT1000
Nuemaan KM184
(4) Octava MC012
AKG D112
Sure SM7a

While I'm at it what compressor/ mic pre combo's would you guys use in this application?

Pre's: (2)Telefunken V76's
2 ch. Millennia Media
(2)Avalon VT737SP

Comp's:(2) UA1176ln
Avalon 2044 stereo

Thanks for your suggestions, Dyno

[Dave Martin]

It depends on your room, of course, but I'd probably put the Rodes or octavas on overheads (with the millennia preamps), the SM7 on kick, and the D112 in the trash. Put the 184 on snare and the Octavas on toms (unless you've used a pair for overheads, in which case, I'd use the Rodes for the rack toms and the Lawson on the floor tom. If you don't need the rom mocs, don't use them when you mix.

If this setup doesn't sound good, change it.

[robdarling]

Whichever mic has the most low-end bloom (probably the Lawson) is the one to use on the room. It should be placed in a way that gives you warm highs and cymbals with a kick that is nearly equal in the beat with the snare, but diffused. And it should be featured very prominently.

[alphajerk]

alternative country/americana... whoa, thats the two kinds of music here. and bluegrass.

personally, id put the lawson out in front of the kick to catch the kick and snare... and basically the kit mono. then the octava's out to the sides with the ride side lower and the hihat side higher. probably have to flip the phase of the kick. id try to make those three equidistant from the snare, certainly the split pair overheads. id put the km184 on the snare, maybe the shell of it, or aiming at the shell but with the backish towards the hat if the drummer uses the hat as a crash [ive seen it done too many times]

id put the overheads into the 2 ch. Millennia Media and the lawson and km into the Telefunken V76's...

im just picturing a 18" kick, a snare [probably wood], a hat and a ride, possibly a floor tom, maybe a single crash?

mostly, id spend time figuring out where the kit sounded best in the room.

[Sir Bob]

What do you think of just the Lawson above and maybe something in front of the bassdrum, if needed? Very old-school.

[Jay Kahrs]

Yeah, I'd go the minimalist route myself. One mic in front of the kit, one overhead and maybe one or two more on the sides or in front to fill things out. Probably the Lawson out front and the KM184 overhead. Move it around until you get the right blend. Gentle compression is your friend, the 1176 with all four buttons mashed in is not.

[jspartz]

> Dave Martin said: the SM7 on kick, and the D112 in the trash.


Interesting. I never thought about the SM-7 on kick. Do you do this often? What type of sound do you get from it (or what type of music does it sound good with)? Anyone else have good luck with this approach.

I have a D-112 and I don't remember thinking it was ever all that great. I tend to use an RE-20, M-88 or even the TLM-103 on kick. I am not sure why I keep the D-112 other than I got a good deal on it.

jason

[Sir Bob]

I have successfully used the D112 in live situations. But I haven't tried it recording. Would someone state what is wrong with it?

[studjo]

Other than Dave doesn't like its sound on kick the D112 is just a beautiful mic.

I heard a lot of people loving this mic on kick. I always thought that I'm a little strange not liking it.
For live application it's ok but for recording I prefer to take a mic that doesn't put its fingerprints on every hit

But check it out for yourself there are a lot of high profile people who are working with a D112 on kick.

Jo

[Dynodawg]

Thanks for the ideas so far. Scince I have alot of tracks available, I am going to use a combination of methods on this gig. That will give me 2 main choices at mixdown, In your face, or a backed off (natural) drum kit. I will use the millenia on the overheads as my V76's sound too different from each other to use in stereo.

Thanks,
Dyno

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by Sir Bob
I have successfully used the D112 in live situations. But I haven't tried it recording. Would someone state what is wrong with it?

I simply don't like the sound of the mic. Someone else put it best when they said that it makes the kick sound like a basketball dropped at center court. I can EQ out a bunch of what AKG apparently designed in, but I can get a useable kick sound a lot quicker with other tools. And Iv'e never been able to get what I think is a 'great' kick drum sound using it, no matter what I do.

[RKrizman]

Originally posted by studjo

But check it out for yourself there are a lot of high profile people who are working with a D112 on kick.

Jo

And some low profile people too !cool
-R

[RKrizman]

Originally posted by Dave Martin
And Iv'e never been able to get what I think is a 'great' kick drum sound using it, no matter what I do.

Obviously, you need to start changing out drummers until you find one who sounds good through a D-112.
-R

[dave-G]

Sorry to add to the kick-mic tangent, but it's interesting. . . FWIW, while I don't hate the D112, I do prefer its antecedent, the D12. .

Recently I had a chance to use an EV mic that I'd never seen before (apparently designed for kickdrum) and I liked it quite a bit! I think it's called the N/D868 -- have a lookee at http://www.electrovoice.com/electrov...E?Opendocument

Anyone else know this mic?

-dave

[dave-G]

Originally posted by alphajerk
mostly, id spend time figuring out where the kit sounded best in the room.

Wise advice! With some quality attention to the kit itself and its placement in your room, any of the aforementioned matchup and placement suggestions will become much easier to make good sounds with.

-dave

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by dave-G

Recently I had a chance to use an EV mic that I'd never seen before (apparently designed for kickdrum) and I liked it quite a bit! I think it's called the N/D868 --

Anyone else know this mic?

Yup. I like it, bought one for a club I work at. I was going to get them a Senn. 602 but the store was out of stock on those and Beta 52's. It's a nice mic, lower output then a Beta 52 and not as shaped and pre-EQ'd.

[sonic dogg]

All of the aforementioned suggestions are quite on the mark so anything I might add would just be MHO...I do a lot of this kinda stuff although unlike alpha, I think that alternative country/americana is THREE kinds of muzak...you never said how much of a drum kit you'll be workin on...but i'll guess at minimalist due to the type(s) of muzak...
I'd do the Neumanns in a X/Y stereo overhead....the lawson out in front about 5-6 feet and 3' off the floor look at its phase in comparison to the X/Y....I'd definately do the SM-7 on the kik not in too tight just to let it breathe a bit...I'd try an octava on the snare shell side especially if its wood...and I'd use the pres as alpha suggested...this would give you a couple of options at mix with the X/Y and a kik and some color from the lawson...the side mic on the snare is just for the 'hit'...if this doesnt work ...start over ...I am also a non 112 lovin person though i used a d12 for years...I like the ATM-25 much better...

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by RKrizman
Obviously, you need to start changing out drummers until you find one who sounds good through a D-112.
-R

I KNEW I was doing something wrong - and that's why you get the big bucks... Should I also put the house kit in storage?

[RKrizman]

Originally posted by Dave Martin
[ Should I also put the house kit in storage? [/B]

No, send it to me.

BTW, I discovered by accident once that the D-112 also works as a speaker as well as a mic. I was micing the bottom of the Leslie and accidentally sent the cue send through its cable. As the track was playing from the control room over the cues I was going nuts looking all over the studio for the open headphone.

Dang, i liked that mic.

-R

[studjo]

[BTW, I discovered by accident once that the D-112 also works as a speaker as well as a mic. I was micing the bottom of the Leslie and accidentally sent the cue send through its cable. As the track was playing from the control room over the cues I was going nuts looking all over the studio for the open headphone.

-R [/B]

How did it sound?
Shall I replace my NS 10 with a D112?