SM57 for Overheads, Kick & Snare through API 3124 (and Wunder Audio) WOW!!!!

[DanRock101]

Now can anyone tell me why no one else has been doing this?!?!? ie., Pushing an API to it's bloody hardest with a dynamic mic like an SM57.

As we all know an API pre sounds best when PUSHED into that cream-your-jeans-transformer-pushed-to-hell territory! Well using a condenser that does not have a pad onto can wreak havoc in this app, even using Line Attenuators. So, what's the solution?

Well the Royer R121 has been a great answer....a $1,200 EACH MIC answer.... I myself have not tried it but would love to based on the reviews.

Recently I've been trying my API 3124 with FOUR SM57's; OH Left & Right, 1 Snare, 1 Kick (yeah I know)....HOLY SHIT! The SM57 take gain all day as well know, as do they take EQ any which way! I've got to say, it has to be heard! Pushing those transformers is pure heaven (especially with Apogee's 'Soft Limit'). I've also tried this with my Wunder Audio pres (also very nice, softer than the API), and my Ridge Farm Gas Cookers (each 2 channeler cascaded into each other with pads ON; nice 'n spicey!) and my Millennia (YUCK!!!! Not a good thing!) and my Ensemble's pres (again, not made for that type of stuff).

For discussion's sake, we'll stick with the API, since most people have those around here (even though I like Wunder Audio differently; not necessarily better, just different) and we're all used to them.

Anyhow, has anyone else tried this (4 SM57's)???? I must say it's a revelation! Pushing the API and the 57's into this territory really brings the best out of drums. It is a GREAT starting point! I'd still say to have AT LEAST an OUTSIDE condesnor for the KICK, an underneath mic for snare, a center condensor & a couple of ROOM condensors.....but, slamming 4 SM57's on OH's, Kick & SD are a GREAT basic pallette on which to build drums.

I'm slammed/busy all this week, but I'll try my best to get some sound samples up of the API (and maybe the Wunder & Gas Cooker to if I have time). Give it a try!

[Cameron Johnson]

Though I don't have the gear to accurately recreate this experiment, I am very excited to hear your clips when you post them!

[madstrat]

a 57 and an api is pretty much where i start with on everything


exept vocals

and sometimes that werks too

it is a distinctive sinal path...fer sure

[audiovisceral]

sm57s only really go 40hz-15khz. don't see how you'll capture much hf or low thump that way...

[bwaudio]

I've read an article in EQ where a producer mentioned a friend who miced a kit with all sm57s and said it sounded amazing. I can't remember the name...but I can find it if anyones interested.

I've actually tried this through an ISA428, and thought it sounded pretty damn good...but I'm no expert.

[theatomicgarden]

so are you actually clipping your converters in this test? the digital distortion isnt a problem? if not, how are you pushing hard without any trim?

[BLUElightCory]

Originally Posted by audiovisceral

sm57s only really go 40hz-15khz. don't see how you'll capture much hf or low thump that way...

This is plenty of range to get great drum sounds. A 40-50ish Hz signal will shake your chest; once you get below 40, you can't really discern the low end anyway. The 15 Hz top end limit might not have as much "air" as a good condenser, but it's plenty of high end to capture the attack of the drums. The high-end roll off can even be a blessing with cymbals, depending on the sound you're going for.

[skatingbasser]

I don't think the issue that is only goes to 40hz so much as it's the fact that 40hz has over 10db of attenuation.

Now bring on the samples.

[audiovisceral]

Originally Posted by skatingbasser

I don't think the issue that is only goes to 40hz so much as it's the fact that 40hz has over 10db of attenuation.

Now bring on the samples.

yeah. 40hz-15khz is just what they advertise, hence my posting the graph.

[soupking]

Personally, I've never really cared for the sm57 on drums. Snare is okay.

I really dig ribbons and haven't tried a Royer.

I highly recommend the Beyer M160 and the RCA bk-5 if you can find them at an affordable price.

For $1200 I think you are coming close to a pair of M160's. I highly recommend a demo if you can put it together (didn't see your location).

I'd take having 4 M160's over 4 Sm57's any day. On the other hand, I think the first thing any studio should have for basic setup is 2 sm57's to get level before using real mics. Er, I mean other mics. Sorry, I'm a snob.

[DanRock101]

Originally Posted by soupking

Personally, I've never really cared for the sm57 on drums. Snare is okay.

I really dig ribbons and haven't tried a Royer.

I highly recommend the Beyer M160 and the RCA bk-5 if you can find them at an affordable price.

For $1200 I think you are coming close to a pair of M160's. I highly recommend a demo if you can put it together (didn't see your location).

I'd take having 4 M160's over 4 Sm57's any day. On the other hand, I think the first thing any studio should have for basic setup is 2 sm57's to get level before using real mics. Er, I mean other mics. Sorry, I'm a snob.

Are you using your M160's through the API? And if so, what kind of music do you use them for?

I know the API sounds SICKLY GOOD for rock & heavier stuff, but mabye a cleaner pre would sound better for jazz or lighter things where more DETAIL is used and less crunch. If you do use the API/M160 combo for rock, can the M160's be PUSHED like a dynamic can? I know that my condensors are spitting and peaking with the API for the harder stuff, so the 57 (WHICH IS A GREAT MIC!) take the crunch well!

I mean, aren't API meant to be pushed?

[staudio]

Dynamic mics as overheads rock. I like a pair of 421's for the task sometimes. Dynamic mics can be fat and tight unlike any condenser. The slower response of the moving coil naturally rounds transients in pleasing way. Also if your room sucks, dynamics pick up less ambience giving a drier sound.

[JQ127]

Isn't there a dvd of some big time producer recording an album twice-once with all great mics and the next using nothing but 57's? A studio pal told me about it and said the session with the 57's sounded amazingly good. I gotta find that dvd-it's a cool idea.

[BobSchwenkler]

Originally Posted by JQ127

Isn't there a dvd of some big time producer recording an album twice-once with all great mics and the next using nothing but 57's? A studio pal told me about it and said the session with the 57's sounded amazingly good. I gotta find that dvd-it's a cool idea.

I'd be very interested to hear the final products.

[DanRock101]

Originally Posted by audiovisceral

sm57s only really go 40hz-15khz. don't see how you'll capture much hf or low thump that way...

Now, aren't we all normally rolling off frequencies half the time (subtractive EQ)? 57's fit the bill here. Yes the silk and sheen on the cymbals will be missing. For rock stuff, I don't think it would be missing. Lighter stuff, I can see how the 57's AND the API would not work.

[u b k]

wait til you try this on acoustic guitar.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[drumrec.com]

Originally Posted by DanRock101

Now can anyone tell me why no one else has been doing this?!?!? ie., Pushing an API to it's bloody hardest with a dynamic mic like an SM57.

Drop some sample "DanRock"

[AllBread]

Who care about samples? Just kidding, bring on the samples. The key thing is that he nailed a sound that he loved on a kit with $320 worth of microphones. If there's a broader statement to be made it's not "57's always sound great on overheads" but rather "a great pre-amp will allow you to get the most of generic and/or inexpensive mics." But I think that most of us have learned by now to spend the money on the pre first before plugging a U87 into an 003 and wondering why the mic doesn't live up to the hype.

That being said, I would love to hear your 4x57 drum sound!

[mixman499]

Originally Posted by u b k

wait til you try this on acoustic guitar.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

+1 some of my favorite acoustic sounds i get with a 57 or sm7 into a daking preamp.

i have used the same with an api 312...MANY times.

have always heard that the drums on emmylou harris's wrecking ball record done with mr. lanois used 57s as overheads.

i have done that many times. in a nice room, good drummer, good kit, it can sound great.

whatever works and sounds cool for what your brain wants to hear at the time !!

best,

jchristopherhughes

[thenoiseflower]

Yes!

not all the time, mic-ing the kit with all 57's is like drugs. "Just not all the time"

I heard Lanois did it a bit back, and I've been fukin around with it ever since - thinking back, as many times as I've set a kit up like this, I usualy dont have the nads to rely on it outside of a personal session.
I like the tone they get when you have 4-6 or more tracks of drums cut through 57's, it starts to sound wicked I wish there were other mics I had 8 of that I could try it on another model. But just overheads, and room on 57s is just the trick sometimes/

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by audiovisceral

sm57s only really go 40hz-15khz. don't see how you'll capture much hf or low thump that way...

I agree with you with that frequency response chart, but you are not considering proximity effect, look at the same chart (im sure you can find it) with the different responses at different distances, for OH you may not be close enough to the proximity effect (which i think is good since most of the time i roll of some bass on the OH) but for something like a kick mic'ed up close, your chart may develop a low-end tumor going beyond 0db's

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by thenoiseflower

not all the time, mic-ing the kit with all 57's is like drugs. "Just not all the time"

LMAO!!!! but true

[eirikur]

Hmm.. sounds interesting...
Surely, some of you that have tried this must have some audio clips you can post? :)
Moving studio at the time, so I can't try this for myself right now, but would be interesting to hear some clips... Anyone? :)

[alvagoldbook]

I concur. Some clips would be absolutely lovely. I've been quite a fan of the 57 for a long time. In a pinch, you can use it on just about everything. When I used to do live sound it was always the little mic who could. Of course, studio work is a different animal, but I'd love to hear what this sounds like.

[Goldfish]

Originally Posted by JQ127

Isn't there a dvd of some big time producer recording an album twice-once with all great mics and the next using nothing but 57's? A studio pal told me about it and said the session with the 57's sounded amazingly good. I gotta find that dvd-it's a cool idea.

Sounds like Russ Long's Nashville recording DVD, he did that on one song. He tracked with 57s and a small Mackie on the low budget version. Mix came out fine.

[JQ127]

Originally Posted by Goldfish

Sounds like Russ Long's Nashville recording DVD, he did that on one song. He tracked with 57s and a small Mackie on the low budget version. Mix came out fine.

Yeah that's it. Gotta check it out. Thanks.

[jjblair]

SM57s and MD421s on OH? I wouldn't even use R121s for that.

If you are on a small budget and want a real "wow," try the chameleon TS1s.

If you have money, get some good LDCs. After using some nice condensers for OH, you'll realize that this isn't all that "wow."

There's a reason why when really good engineers record drums, they don't use SM57s other than snare and the occasional hat. Oh, and they almost never use soft limit. At least nobody I know does anymore. That's so 1995.

[rainsinvelvet]

I'm going to the studio today to goof around.
If I get a second I'll record something this way and post it for everyone.

ERic

[rainsinvelvet]

Ok.

Here is something quick I did completely with SM57s. I have a locker full of other "higher quality" mics, but it was fun doing it this way. Even the reverb on the snare drum is a 57 as my "hall mic".

It was interesting how little EQ I needed to get everything to play well together.

Sorry for the MP3 quality.

ERic

[Dog Boots]

This thread is a good example of something I've mentioned recently:

I do not doubt that DanRock101 has found a really great drum sound...to suit his own taste. But for all I know DanRock101's ideal drum sound is one I cannot stand...(but I'm looking forward to hearing the samples!).

I would like to see more descriptions of what kind of drum sounds (in this case) the poster in question likes / is trying to achieve, maybe with some references to well known recordings.

Samples are of course always the best way...