Who is making money right now?

[thethrillfactor]

And what are you doing?

Things here in the city are pretty much at a crawl and i was wondering who or what part of the industry is making money right now?

Their are still records being sold right?

I had heard a rumor today that a certain famous singer who supposedly went Platinum only went Platinum because their record label bought 750,000 copies to push them over publicity wise(really for soundscan).

This is sad.


Very sad.


The only area i could think of that is a guaranteed money maker is anything for kids under 12 years old.

Case in point the new movie Madagascar.

On the way downtown yesterday on the train just about every kid and their parents were going to see this.

Parents will dish out whatever it takes for their kids cause i guess they don't want to feel like they are depriving their kids of anything(future cases for therapy) so their is financial potential here.

I see that the new animation flicks all have top actors in them which will peak interest from the adults.

But outside of this are you making money right now?

How?

[audiomichael]

I think the "big record company" records are really dead. I had to totally re-think what I was doing, to keep going. I'm much happier now since I'm not chasing down cuts on the flavor of the month artists.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by audiomichael

I think the "big record company" records are really dead. I had to totally re-think what I was doing, to keep going. I'm much happier now since I'm not chasing down cuts on the flavor of the month artists.

So are you making money right now in your career?

And how?

[doug_hti]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

And what are you doing?

I had heard a rumor today that a certain famous singer who supposedly went Platinum only went Platinum because their record label bought 750,000 copies to push them over publicity wise(really for soundscan).

How?

Isn't this one of the reasons that sound scan is in place, to actually prevent this? Unless they bought them in a reporting store under the table...but 750k is a lot.


As to the question....
At least on the west coast, it seems the way to make money, is to be around a network of production/developer/songwriter team(s) and get in on the ground up. Problem is that a lot of people, including the biggest, most piped in, self-praising hustlers are doing the same.

Also it's no secret that the majority of successful pop projects currently are those that are accompanied by the help of the screen in some way (film, tv) now or originally.

The biggest (new) record deals being handed out now (by the majors) are not really exceeding $250k all in unless they are trying to buy a record from you. Same artist would have received $1mil to $1.5 2-3 years ago.

The recent mergers, sales, and unbelievable downsizing of labels (in particular Sony/BMG merger) haven't helped ANYONE gain any momentum of anything as people seem to be physically changing offices and receiving new titles or a pink slip.

That being said, word has it that some companies are starting to settle in with the house cleaning slowing down a bit. Hopefully this will allow a bit more creative freedom for the frightened A&Rs and Publishers out there.



And back to the solutions or lack therof....
I believe there is too much stuff being done on traditional "spec" where the artist is getting a free hobby project without any consequences.

I think it's more effective to have a team work together from start to finish with collective and similar interests, goals, and consequences.

And I don't think any of the solutions are pain-free or easy....

[dillweed]

LONDON - A cell-phone ring tone appeared set to top the British singles chart Sunday, outselling the new single by the band Coldplay by nearly four to one, a music retailer said.
"Crazy Frog Axel F," a ring tone based on the sound of a revving Swedish mo-ped, is the first tune being used on mobile phones to cross into mainstream music charts, said Gennaro Castaldo, a spokesman for HMV, the British music retailing chain.
The ring tone was expected to replace the Oasis tune "Lyla" as the No. 1 hit on the list released Sunday by the Official UK Charts Co. The weekly singles chart, which has been released since 1952, is based on the sales of 5,600 retail shops across Britain.

This kinda sums up the state of music right now. seems like no one is selling, especially rock.
As far as owning a studio: i've got an intern now who's working the clubs trying to get people in to my studio to record. He says he gets blank stares from young bands who can't understand the concept of paying to record. "my friend has protools and will record us for free, why would we come to your studio?"

Times are tough.

[audiomichael]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

So are you making money right now in your career?

And how?

Most of the time, I'm composing music for TV...that's nice, 'cause when you do work...you get paid (much more often then the record business). I do music for advertising, still alot of spec work there, but when it flies, it's pretty good. I get to do about 1-2 records a year just on word of mouth, usually pretty low budget. All of the other "record" stuff, is act's that I've developed. That way, when a song gets licensed for TV or film, or some compilation record, I get paid. If/when my artist get signed, I'll do most or all of that record, since it's my sound, my songs. I'm not chasing to get the next [pop or R & B artist] someone elses style to get the next cut.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by doug_hti

Unless they bought them in a reporting store under the table...but 750k is a lot.
.

Bingo Doug you win the prize.

And this is a major artist.

I got the news first hand today and was shocked.

You made great points.

And yeah $250K is about right.

I do know they give out bonuses if you come in under budget(between $10K-50K).

Which basically means we will continue to get mediocre records because the A&R's are doing their all to turn in records without having to pay professionals to get under their budget.

It does open the door though for the guy with his own project studio.

You won't make much but you start building your name.

Hey Doug you never answered the question...are you making money right now?

If so what are you doing?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by dillweed

LONDON - A cell-phone ring tone appeared set to top the British singles chart Sunday, outselling the new single by the band Coldplay by nearly four to one, a music retailer said.
"Crazy Frog Axel F," a ring tone based on the sound of a revving Swedish mo-ped, is the first tune being used on mobile phones to cross into mainstream music charts, said Gennaro Castaldo, a spokesman for HMV, the British music retailing chain.
The ring tone was expected to replace the Oasis tune "Lyla" as the No. 1 hit on the list released Sunday by the Official UK Charts Co. The weekly singles chart, which has been released since 1952, is based on the sales of 5,600 retail shops across Britain.

This kinda sums up the state of music right now. seems like no one is selling, especially rock.
As far as owning a studio: i've got an intern now who's working the clubs trying to get people in to my studio to record. He says he gets blank stares from young bands who can't understand the concept of paying to record. "my friend has protools and will record us for free, why would we come to your studio?"

I had heard this and thought it was an April Fools joke but this is the end of May.

Originally Posted by dillweed

Times are tough.

I couldn't say it better myself.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by audiomichael

Most of the time, I'm composing music for TV...that's nice, 'cause when you do work...you get paid (much more often then the record business). I do music for advertising, still alot of spec work there, but when it flies, it's pretty good. I get to do about 1-2 records a year just on word of mouth, usually pretty low budget. All of the other "record" stuff, is act's that I've developed. That way, when a song gets licensed for TV or film, or some compilation record, I get paid. If/when my artist get signed, I'll do most or all of that record, since it's my sound, my songs. I'm not chasing to get the next [pop or R & B artist] someone elses style to get the next cut.

Audiomichael,

When doing corporate gigs do you have to go through hoops to get paid?

Here in NYC you have to go through a corporate agency or whoever books you so it makes it tougher.

Its not like you can call AT&T, Verizon or Volkswagen and ask to get their accounts department.

If you do they will be give you the...

So you have to go through a seperate agency that has to get paid first and then you get paid.

Don't get me wrong eventually you will get paid, but you can't just tell them you won't do any business with them until you get a check.

Its corporate business that deals with millions, so they don't don't understand what's the hassle over a few measly hundreds or thousands.

[doug_hti]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Hey Doug you never answered the question...are you making money right now?

If so what are you doing?

Yes I am making money...but I am doing a lot of "investing" of my time as well.

I have a couple steady gigs with TV and Radio shows (20% of my time). Mixing radio and recording and mixing tv. Sometimes they are equivalent to driving a bus full of kids down a straight road for 500 miles. A lot of responsibility, not a lot of action. But pay is fair, environment/facility is nice and it's good to get away from my place a bit. I'm thankful I get the calls.

I've been taking about 1 outside mix project a month recently, usually NOT full length records, paid per track.

I also do live sound at times. I have been doing this a lot longer than studio production. It's a good change up. I don't do much (2x a month) and the stuff I do is fairly easy and enjoyable, but usually requires a fly date.

I have two artists (new/unsigned) that I am working with and helping to develop. I get paid nothing up front, but have other returns on them on the back end.
I have one artist (Children's artist) that I manage and get paid a percentage.

And then I spend about half of my time working on my wife's projects. She is a professional singer/songwriter (read: that's all she has ever done for a living). On her records we've been fortunate enough to have very good budgets and work with some of the best folks out there. When I saw the industry changing (2000) and quality of demo demands go up, I went against our management advice(who insisted she'll never need such a thing), and I started to develop our project studio quickly and got heavily involved in creating an environment where she didn't have to rely on others for the creative/developent aspect, especially the confident ones that were taught ALL the "do's and don'ts of music" at Berklee
Through some of the transitions we've been through, we would have been sunk if we didn't have it.
It's also been important for full on demos for the occasional song pitch to other artists/groups, as piano or guitar voxes aren't getting the cuts....(although, as michael mentions, it's really not worth the time anymore unless you are actually working in the artists camp). And all of her demos fortunately get a budget, so we bring in players, and I get a bit of money on the front that way, but most of those returns get shoved in a pipeline and come back over a year later without my name on it.

She used to do everything from the start in a studio with a hired programmer almost always at her disposal. We'd be stupid to do that now and not have a project studio to get demos up. And our project studio does not replace the great tracking/mixing facilities or great mixers out there. But we're sure getting more returns out of it than we ever possibly could have imagined.

So the answer is yes, I'm getting paid, but juggling a LOT of balls. I would rather focus on one or two things only, but this is how things are now, and I definately don't get bored. I'm also quite thankful that all the work I do is music or audio related. I look forward to getting up in the morning.

The absolute hardest and emotionally exhausting thing for me personally is juggling today with tomorrow, where do you invest. How far down the line do you invest. Do you take a hit now to earn more later, or do you take in all you can by the moment.




So how long do those real-estate courses take?

[Henchman]

I'm making money.
Doing post, and some mixing/producing on the side.

[Slipperman]

You know what I do here Thrill.

Nothing to explain.

Best year excepting 2003.

Which was my best year ever.

Second half of last year was pretty miserable.

I gave up trying to figure this stuff out.

Whatever.

"Take it while ya got it".

Otherwise.

Beats the heck outta me.

Best regards,

Slippy.

[Datcha]

Hi all,

during the recent recordcompany mergers here in Belgium, they sacked the A&R's!
some of them are now freelance...

it's like Microsoft not having it's own software developpers anymore...

So this makes us producer/engineers also talentscouts & A&R's, without getting extra money for it.

Production, programming & engineering albums (mostly independent): still 50%
the other 50% is writing with other people, consulting, applying multitrack technology to other industries (did a project for the European Parliament) & my 2 bands that don't generate proper money yet... :-)

Strange thing is that last 3 albums I produced got serious critical acclaim, but didn't really generate sales, only airplay & gigs for the band.


Mind you, recording contracts on the continent are different than UK & USA, due to Napoleontic Law.
Not everything can be recouped from the artist, meaning the advances are lower, but it's 'softer' making a living overhere.

Overheads (renting space...) are more realistic here as well.
Still, it's true that I invest more than ever, to be able to do more work at my own place.

Due to the dollar/euro, mostly american gear...

I checked with some friends and collegues.
There's still money in Post & sometimes theatre (!)
Almost none in classical music...

Still love what I do though.

[RoundBadge]

A lot of my money comes from the advertising world right now.location/post/sound design..
Also gear rentals in the film /tv world {No A&R haggling}They usually have decent budgets and almost ALWAYS pay on time..unlike many record labelsfuuck fuuck fuuck[some of which STILL owe me money!]
It also affords me the time and resources to pick and choose the recording projects I want to do, as opposed to "have" to do.I'm very, very grateful for that.
But lately ,I'm getting lots of calls from bands/artists that want me to magically fix/remix/redo/edit etc.. stuff they've recorded in the bedroom/garage hack PT LE places.

[deepwater]

I'm making good money as a sound contrator. I install A/V systems mostly in churches all over the country. However, in the past few years I've found a hugh nich market in setting up studios in churches. A lot of churches are getting into recording and production. So don't limit yourself to just recording in the studio.

[toolskid]

I make a living, bought a house etc.. BUT I bust my balls on EVERY project and get hired for:

record production, engineering, protools editing, programming, film + TV composition, studio and live drumming and percussion, sound design for corporate events, sound design for major fashion shows, sample library content production, guest lectures at places like SAE...

I'm not trying to go 'oooh wat a lot of things he does', more like 'FUK, I have to do ALL of this just to make a living!!!!'

The last six years have been heavy going on my health and personal life, but maybe...just maybe its been worth it...we'll see I suppose.

even when I'm as blue as can be tho, a decent jam with some pals or a little listen to some of the greats can go a long way to lifting my mood (which has been black as hell at times I can tell you...)

I dont really spend money and have a consequently spartan lifestyle in some regards, I almost never eat out, rarely drink, dont go to the movies much, invest in gear when I NEED IT, dont really have holidays and am pretty much work-focused I suppose. DAMN its tough to make a buck for sure...

But some reasonable budget sessions are still out there, just hardly any, and it seems I can always be undercut, ALWAYS, even on spec jobs!!!!!!

ah well, I suppose I'd better look at negiotating that ring-tone conversion contract I turned down a while ago

[scott petito]

yeah I'm doing pretty well at this game... I've pretty much avoided the majors for a few years now unless the artist is in a position to get all or most of the money upfront...and this does happen.. one recent one was BMG, another for V2 and another for emi/angel....I do a lot of Jazz and small label singer songwriters as well....I've been a session player for 20 years and have a royalty stream from airplay and film royalties.. so it all adds up to a living....plus I'm out in the wood!... most of my clients travel 100-200 miles to get to me... also the demise of a lot big studios and the home studio thing has actually increased our traffic...for instance a very fine classical guitarist who I have worked with on 2 previous records decided to "save " money and record in a friends home studio... it took her a year to get it done a million hassles and then the final blow the guy lost all the files in a drive crash with no backups!! she is now doing her third album in our studio... another one cured...
Hats off to anyone making a living at this!

cheers

SP

[audiomichael]

Originally Posted by toolskid

I make a living, bought a house etc.. BUT I bust my balls on EVERY

The last six years have been heavy going on my health and personal life, but maybe...just maybe its been worth it...we'll see I suppose.

I know what you mean. Last year I got Tinnitus, Tendonitus, Vertigo, and general aches and pains, and I just turned 30! All from overworking (not getting overpaid though). While re-evaluating my work, I also had to re-evaluate my lifestyle (working ALL of the time).

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

When doing corporate gigs do you have to go through hoops to get paid?

When I do advertising stuff, I do go through several different middleman different companies, who take a percentage. They also do ALL of the dealing with the big companies. But I haven't had trouble getting paid from them. Most of these middlemen are just 1 or 2 people who bust ass networking, I hate doing REAL business work, so I prefer to stay with the creative side as much as I can (plus, I don't have the time to do both).

If you can create you own gigs, then you can control them, and control all of the money. To a large extent that means becoming more wearing more business hats, and less music hats.

[ProFool]

[QUOTE=thethrillfactor]

I had heard a rumor today that a certain famous singer who supposedly went Platinum only went Platinum because their record label bought 750,000 copies to push them over publicity wise(really for soundscan).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It was the producer who bought those records, since he send in 2 songs for 2 different countries for the eurovision contest and wanted to be sure they got selected to be in the contest, not a nice thing to do but they where in the final

[QUOTE
LONDON - A cell-phone ring tone appeared set to top the British singles chart Sunday, outselling the new single by the band Coldplay by nearly four to one, a music retailer said.
"Crazy Frog Axel F," a ring tone based on the sound of a revving Swedish mo-ped, is the first tune being used on mobile phones to cross into mainstream music charts, said Gennaro Castaldo, a spokesman for HMV, the British music retailing chain.
The ring tone was expected to replace the Oasis tune "Lyla" as the No. 1 hit on the list released Sunday by the Official UK Charts Co. The weekly singles chart, which has been released since 1952, is based on the sales of 5,600 retail shops across Britain.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's number one in the charts overhere in Belgium also, really sad

To answer Thrill's question, no im not making much money
I have 1 bands on spec and earn more doing foh in the weekends with 2 coverbands than i earn with the spec band, but anyway the songs are great so you never now what happens next. Im also supporting an independent composer and he's not making anything eather, actually hes spending more money on sending in his tracks for online contest etc. wich i doubt they are succesfull, but these guys organizing them like taxi etc they make big buck's ( could be a subject for a thread, getting out the scams. ) im sure there are scams between them.

grtz

[nukmusic]

Mostly making money from local artist. You know everyone has this dream of being that Platinum artist. R&B and Rap recording and producing. If I can average about $3-500 a week, I'm good. Sometimes its slow. I'm also a fire fighter.......one day on duty, two days off duty..............if I take off on scheduled day I'm be off five days straight. thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

and the cost of living in Nawlins is not as high as in other places. Plus gas in only $1.95gal right now........Dam did i say only.

[Jan Folkson]

I'm in the middle of my best year so far, still trying to make my way back from 2003 which was my worst. Almost all label stuff (major and indie), mostly jazz and broadway cast albums. Everything has tiny budgets, so I just do lots of small projects to make up for it.

The last twelve months have been mostly 6-7 day weeks at 15+ hours per day. When you look at it like that I'm not really making enough to justify the hours. Especially considering my costs, and my expenses in Manhattan are nuts and going to be getting nuttier.

The studio that I sublet from is in bankruptcy so there's a very real possiblity that I might need to walk away from my space, buildout and all. I found another space but I'm not sure that it's worth investing $200K into a studio in this climate.

Pretty ironic, I'm busier than ever and putting together a resume.

[audioez]

this has been an interesting thread:

Mixing music for broadcast, location recording, studio tracking(mixing my way into the projects). In regards to music, all my clients are not labels!!! This seems to be they way to get paid day of, or within two weeks or so.

No slight on ProTools(90% of the sessions I work on use it), but I'm happy to say that I'm being hired as an engineer, not a ProTools monkey. A couple of years back I could've invested in the DAW route. Although every studio and there uncle owns one, so I went the route of nice tracking preamps and eq's.

This was the best thing I could've done for my rate as well. It allowed me to jack it up with confidence, between all the cartage and increased quality of the audio. This was a huge step from being an employee of the studio, to becoming a client.

[Dirty Halo]

Oh my God guys! I am sorry, truly sorry. I'm on the artist side and thought things were tough in my world...and it IS! But, it sounds to be no better here.

Soooo...here's the question:

Music will not end. The demand for music will not end...

So, what will that look like for both studios AND artists in the semi-near future?

What form will labels be, if any? Indies? All independent? Where will people be played, which leads to how they record.

DIRTY HALO www.dirtyhalo.com

[cajonezzz]

I'm in Tools boat more or less.
I still make the lions share of my $$$ as a freelance drummer/ perc guy.

I'm lucky that I'm locked into a corporate casual market and get first of second call on a lot of gigs and sessions.

The last two years has been a building period for me as far as AE/ Production, I've really only been in the "hot seat ' as AE/producer for the last few years.

managing a studio and helping to plan the direction of the studio has been a new experience and quite frankly, not one I'd like to continue.

The next 6 months will be a transition more towards freelance production, and less engineering. I'll engineer when I NEED to or HAVE to. I am seriously thinking of out fitting the new home with a PT HD rig to mix and overdub/ prepro with... that would keep the $$$ in my pocket as opposed to dumping it in the studio ( which by the way, I'm NOT an owner of )
I think that there are creative ways to make a living, it just takes a little ingenuity. I think the glory days are long gone...( big budget stuff and big paydays ) and I don't think that's really a bad thing. easy for me to say as I never cashed in!

good thread.

[Musiclab]

It's definetly slower, I'm still making money although last week I was sick as a dog
and canceled everything. What's alarming is, instead of having alot of different clients in various stages of recording I working on mainly one project at a time and they are booking most of my days. It gets scary when they finish and you wonder where the next project is coming from. Luckily I have one steady client who books
at least a full day a week and another client who comes in from upstate for a few days a month, they help fill things in. Also I own everything outright and I built the studio in my house, so my overhead isn't too bad.

[AlphaDingo]

Does it make sense for an artist to pursue a major lable deal given how the deck it totally stacked against you?

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by AlphaDingo

Does it make sense for an artist to pursue a major lable deal given how the deck it totally stacked against you?

I'm on the same boat. My perspective is really changin as what one should pursue. My plans are to move to LA and try to play, play , play and whatever happens.. happens.

Also working on my production skills.. Call up managers, invite them to see you play, call up lawyers.

don't know man, you just have to do what you have to do. Thinking about money and music just doesn't do it for me.

Try to make the best music possible. Money will come sooner or later I guess. If it doesn't at least you did some good stuff and hopefully had fun doing it. It really comes down to that.

[bpatural]

I'm making a living at this, but only through diversification....i do 3-4 major label records a year engineering, some producing/eng/mixing for self financed/indie bands for much cheaper rates, songwriting demos, and songwriting (artists, movies, tv). In the end I'd be screwed doing any one of these because there isn't enough money, but together I can make a decent living, and I can get away with turning away styles of music I don't like. It's also fun to have my hands in so many things...though the only way to really strike it rich seems to be with songwriting these days.
-brian

[kudzu]

ex-songwiter turned producer/engineer from the land of Franz Ferdinand here...things r good....lotsa kids seeking advice/help....money OK, but lotsa work....do some FOH work...get to meet bands...its still all about networking....Logic 7.1/ G5 works !!!!!!! Hurrah !!!!!! 96K/24bits sounds f*kin' great

[joaquin]

I hardly turn down any kind of work, but mostly, I make my bucks nowadays, for which I'm very grateful, working in TV as an Audio Mixer in the field and also doing Post from time to time. Writing Jingles when they are required...good money, and investing to my last penny in getting my studio up and running, so I'll be able to record all those albums that I was supposed to put out years ago, plus the ones to came. Once I achive that, I'll look for a way to sell my music thru the net and build a strong independent distribution network around the Globe....For me It's all about music, and tough it's been a sometimes hard road, I do not repent for a second for my chosen passion.