The TUBE Factor! Tube Preamps: Ridge Farm, UA 610, Sebatron, Daking, Tube Tech

[DanRock101]

Ok Slutz!

I'm putting on the chopping block some well over the top TUBE preamps:

*Ridge Farm Gas Cooker
*Sebatron (take your pick)
*UA 610
*Daking
*Tube Tech

I say OVER THE TOP because these Tube Preamps are known for having "mojo" (yeah yeah, one slutz mojo is another slutz diarrhoea) & (add your own adjective here).

In the world of CLEAN/TRANSPARENT preamps (see Millennia, True, Grace), or NEVE-TYPE PREAMPS (see Wunder, Great River, AMS) or the FAST pres (API, Pacifica), the tube pres fall in a class their own; color-wise, source wise etc. For a while there (maybe 6-7 years ago) all I would here was "Oh you GOTTA have TUBES" "If it doesn't have tubes...." "In the digital world tubes...." Well we've learned that a SLOW transient Wunders, or a snappy API or a clean/colored Pacifica DOES impart a great deal of sonic separation.

So Tube Preamps AREN'T the "be-all/end-all".... BUT they do have their place.....so what IS the place? And what ARE the differences in the aforementioned tube preamps? What applications do we slutz use them for or MUST (see "can't live without on this source") use them for and WHAT do other NON Tube preamps do they stack and/or partner well with?

[DanRock101]

Forgot to say.... please feel free to mention ANOTHER brand of Tube Pre that I didn't include on my original post!

[u b k]

more importantly, HOW can we get more CAPITALS in our posts without PUMMELING the READER with an overly EMPHATIC tone of VOICE?

i'd add the peach audio to the list, because it's the best, but i'm unclear what the list is for, or what it means to put things on the chopping block...?


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[BOWIE]

On the clean side, Demeter VTMP-2b and Blue Robbie are great. UA 610 is my fave "vibe" pre.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by DanRock101

Forgot to say.... please feel free to mention ANOTHER brand of Tube Pre that I didn't include on my original post!

Pendulum Audio MDP-1a

A great pre, with a full feature set.

[Soldier777c]

The DW Fearn stuff sounds pretty great as well.

[RoundBadge]

I think you might be a little confused.
first two things:the Dakings arent tube.
the Wunders don't sound anything like a Neve.
also don't believe the all stuff you read here
some tube pres can sound very un tube like and some solid state stuff can sound tube like.
As far as the tube mojo or whatever,I love old Altec,Collins,RCA's,Ampex, V76's but the mic's play a huge part of the sound as well.and they don't always work for everything.
I've had/used every damn pre at one point or another.ended up selling off most of em.I'm happy with a few old Neve's ,API.s,Helios, Daking, Telefunkens..usually never stray from using more than 2 ,maybe three diff types for a given project
try stuff out and find what works for you

[Frankovitchy]

I'll never sell my Groove Tubes Vipre, that's for sure

[vernier]

For me there's no choice. It's tubes, or forget it.
'

[basho]

Daking is not a tube design. Think Trident A-Range.

And you forgot the gold standard of tube microphone preamps: The Telefunken V72.

[nightscope]

Originally Posted by DanRock101

.... please feel free to mention ANOTHER brand of Tube Pre that I didn't include on my original post!

Earlybird

http://www.thermionicculture.com/pro...rlybird2-2.htm

ns

[dubrichie]

so many trees, so much barking...

[Recycled_Brains]

I'm not entirely sure what this thread is aboot, BUT I like my Hamptone and AMI/TAB-Funkenwerk valve pres quite a bit.

I ALSO LIKE CAPITAL LETTERS AND EMPHATIC TONES.

[visiblesound]

The Chandler TG2 is a great alternative to a tube pre. I own one, and own several tube pres as well. The Chandler is every bit as warm and has as much or more character than any tube pre I've tried. It doesn't need the maintenance a tube pre needs, and it's extremely quiet. It's actually my number one favorite pre.

VS

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by visiblesound

It doesn't need the maintenance a tube pre needs,
VS

??

I don't understand why so many people are under the impression that tube preamps need specail maintainance. If changing tubes every 5 years is prohibitive maintainance, then to each his own but I think people are misinformed. In my experience, they tend to be more reliable because they tend to be built with fairly simple circuitry and there's fewer things to break.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I think you might be a little confused.
first two things:the Dakings arent tube.
the Wunders don't sound anything like a Neve.
also don't believe the all stuff you read here
some tube pres can sound very un tube like and some solid state stuff can sound tube like.
As far as the tube mojo or whatever,I love old Altec,Collins,RCA's,Ampex, V76's but the mic's play a huge part of the sound as well.and they don't always work for everything.
I've had/used every damn pre at one point or another.ended up selling off most of em.I'm happy with a few old Neve's ,API.s,Helios, Daking, Telefunkens..usually never stray from using more than 2 ,maybe three diff types for a given project
try stuff out and find what works for you

It kind of scares me that I enjoy reading your posts so much, because I almost always agree, and was thinking the same thing. Guess I'll just start posting +1

[cochranemc]

A Designs MP-2A

[DanRock101]

Originally Posted by DanRock101

...............So Tube Preamps AREN'T the "be-all/end-all".... BUT they do have their place.....so what IS the place? And what ARE the differences in the aforementioned tube preamps? What applications do we slutz use them for or MUST (see "can't live without on this source") use them for and WHAT do other NON Tube preamps do they stack and/or partner well with?

I was TOLD (while discussing this thread with some friends) that "Hey you left out the Daking", I was like, "Oh, well...ok", so THAT'S why I included it. Sorry if it ain't....
As far as what this post is about, read the quote. I'll reiterate, or HIGHLIGHT my point:

*"what IS the place" that Tube Preamps have in YOUR (yes YOU the reader of this post) recording chain, ie what sources (instruments or vocals) can you NOT live without in using a Tube Pre....

*also, what other NON Tube Preamps go well the your favorit Tube Preamps

*and lastly.....COMPARABLES.... how do your favorite (of the aforementioned Tube Preamps) compare to each other and why did you choose one over the other or use certain ones together OR why do you HATE tube preamps etc......

Remember, the main title catcher in this post is THE TUBE FACTOR..... you know.... this post is about.... tubey shit! C'mon it ain't like THE MEANING OF LIFE here! Don't take it so damn seriously .....but yeah.... you know.... go with the flow.... it's like makin' love..... just start moving stuff around....

Oh BY the way, YES, I LOVE using ALL CAPS on certain, only CERTAIN words to be EMPHATIC or to CATCH your eye on what the MAIN subject of this is post. ( it worked DIDN'T IT!??!) C'mon, think Christopher Walken ("I need more COWBELL baby!") or the Shat (At PriceLINE.COM you CAN get the DEAL of the YEAR!)...............

[phaqu]

Originally Posted by BOWIE

On the clean side, Demeter VTMP-2b....

Man, I thought I was the only one who has/uses one.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by DanRock101

Oh BY the way, YES, I LOVE using ALL CAPS on certain, only CERTAIN words to be EMPHATIC or to CATCH your eye on what the MAIN subject of this is post. ( it worked DIDN'T IT!??!) C'mon, think Christopher Walken ("I need more COWBELL baby!") or the Shat (At PriceLINE.COM you CAN get the DEAL of the YEAR!)...............

but its kinda annoying to read..sorry.

My all time favorite tube pre[and maybe all time pre] is an up to spec Telefunken V76m.
Love them to death.especially when I need a slightly rounder, softer,warm texture[yet
still retain the detail and depth of the source].they aren't as aggressive like Neve,API,but a really beautiful complementary character[which can do wonders for straight to PT tracking]
Neve,Tele,API's:a 1-2-3 tracking punch.they all just work really well together.
also,entire mixes through them[V76's] can be a great thing.

[jigsawlogic]

Dan, you seem to be very enthusiastic about preamps. This might sound bad to you, but my experience is this:

If everything is of good quality in your chain, then the preamp matters almost least of all. Sorry to tell you this, but if you're not completely stoked on your mixes, don't blame the preamp.

[recall]

Had a Sebatron VMP 2000 here for the past few days and am very impressed with it. Very versatile pre. enagaging the two pads has a dramatic effect on the sound from cleanish to thick. I love the tonal eq switches. At the moment I'm running it on the PT mix bus with the "deep" and "air" switches engaged and the input padded down to -30. Reminds me of a Neil Younbg record for the thick sweetness..

[khai]

Originally Posted by Recycled_Brains

I like my Hamptone and AMI/TAB-Funkenwerk valve pres quite a bit. EMPHATIC TONES.

I've got a Tab-funkenwerk V78 tube pre and I'm interested in getting a tube Hamptone pre. How do they differ? Is the Hamptone as thick, lush and colored as the Tab-funkenwerk or is it more transparent and fast?

[DanRock101]

Originally Posted by jigsawlogic

Dan, you seem to be very enthusiastic about preamps. This might sound bad to you, but my experience is this:

If everything is of good quality in your chain, then the preamp matters almost least of all. Sorry to tell you this, but if you're not completely stoked on your mixes, don't blame the preamp.

Sorry, jigsawlogic.... this thread was meant to be about....

I'm putting on the chopping block some well over the top TUBE preamps......

I wanted plainly to DISCUSS preamps. I "hinted" at this by saying:

In the world of CLEAN/TRANSPARENT preamps (see Millennia, True, Grace), or NEVE-TYPE PREAMPS (see Wunder, Great River, AMS) or the FAST pres (API, Pacifica), the tube pres fall in a class their own;......

So Tube Preamps AREN'T the "be-all/end-all".... BUT they do have their place.....so what IS the place? And what ARE the differences in the aforementioned tube preamps? What applications do we slutz use them for or MUST (see "can't live without on this source") use them for and WHAT do other NON Tube preamps do they stack and/or partner well with?

So don't know why you thought that I thought that there was a THOUGHT that may YOU think that I was thinking the thought that I was unsatisfied with my chain? WHERE did you get that from?

I'm actually VERY happy with my chain, mixes, & THOUGHTS! I love my pres, mics, convertors AND DAW.

On the subject of Preamps. They ARE of great (not utmost) importance! Do you mean to tell me a U47 would sound dope/bomb/gee-golly-goodness/swell through a Tascam casette deck & an Art Tube pre/Octopre/Presonus? Really?!?!

A great lense (see mic) with crappy lighting or NO lighting/flash (see Preamp) is as good as a blindfold over a lense or WORSE, NIGHTTIME picture with NO/LITTLE light of a picture of the Grand Canyon (see great signer/instrumentalist etc).....your LIGHTING/FLASH is pretty doggawn important.... AS IS a bad is AND overexposure of a great source (sound) through a OVERLIGHTED source (see "over using a preamp"/distortion etc).....

Did ANY of that make sense? Lastly, case in point....a GREAT Mixer/Console with great preamps can pull the BEST out of an SM57, can it not? BUT, a Roland 1880 (yes, I used them for many years) can NOT make a GREAT mic sound good through their pres & sound engine. Now, with the Roland/Tascam/(fill in your mobile DR), you CAN make a more than decent sound (a HUGELY IMPROVED SOUND) with great preamps? Why is that?

[Daedalus77]

I admit that I teach English in addition to engineering professionally, and I don't mean to be an elitist, but if you can't make your point with conventional vocabulary and syntax, using CAPITAL LETTERS and ellipses (...) aren't going to help. They'll just annoy everyone.

That said, I'd suggest looking at the Mercury versions of the classic V72 and V76 units.

Best of luck.

[visiblesound]

Originally Posted by BOWIE

??

I don't understand why so many people are under the impression that tube preamps need specail maintainance. If changing tubes every 5 years is prohibitive maintainance, then to each his own but I think people are misinformed. In my experience, they tend to be more reliable because they tend to be built with fairly simple circuitry and there's fewer things to break.

Not so in my experience. I've not had a single piece of solid state gear go bad in my studio yet. I've had to service all of my tube gear at least once. That includes high end and very expensive hand made boutique gear. Not just tube replacement, but actual failure as well. My main issue with tubes is that the performance does degrade over time. Even if the gear functions, the sound does change as the tubes age. My point was simply that with the TG2, it sounds the same as the day I bought it, and I don't expect it to need any service. Another advantage of that specific pre compared to my tube pre's is it only takes up one space in the rack as compared to 2 or 3 for my tube pres and it generates a heck of a lot less heat. I do love my tube pre's though. Each one has its own character. I was just offering an alternative that I think sounds every bit as "tubey" as my tube pre's.

VS

[lordnielson]

Originally Posted by DanRock101

Oh BY the way, YES, I LOVE using ALL CAPS on certain, only CERTAIN words to be EMPHATIC or to CATCH your eye on what the MAIN subject of this is post. ( it worked DIDN'T IT!??!) C'mon, think Christopher Walken ("I need more COWBELL baby!") or the Shat (At PriceLINE.COM you CAN get the DEAL of the YEAR!)...............

It's a very messy/erratic way of writing. I don't bother reading your post because it takes too much of an effort.
What's the word for someone achieving the opposite of what they set out to do ?

Originally Posted by recall

Had a Sebatron VMP 2000 here for the past few days and am very impressed with it. Very versatile pre. enagaging the two pads has a dramatic effect on the sound from cleanish to thick. I love the tonal eq switches. At the moment I'm running it on the PT mix bus with the "deep" and "air" switches engaged and the input padded down to -30. Reminds me of a Neil Younbg record for the thick sweetness..

The Seb Vmp is such an amazing deal.

[visiblesound]

Originally Posted by DanRock101

Ok Slutz!

I'm putting on the chopping block some well over the top TUBE preamps:

*Ridge Farm Gas Cooker
*Sebatron (take your pick)
*UA 610
*Daking
*Tube Tech

I say OVER THE TOP because these Tube Preamps are known for having "mojo" (yeah yeah, one slutz mojo is another slutz diarrhoea) & (add your own adjective here).

In the world of CLEAN/TRANSPARENT preamps (see Millennia, True, Grace), or NEVE-TYPE PREAMPS (see Wunder, Great River, AMS) or the FAST pres (API, Pacifica), the tube pres fall in a class their own; color-wise, source wise etc. For a while there (maybe 6-7 years ago) all I would here was "Oh you GOTTA have TUBES" "If it doesn't have tubes...." "In the digital world tubes...." Well we've learned that a SLOW transient Wunders, or a snappy API or a clean/colored Pacifica DOES impart a great deal of sonic separation.

So Tube Preamps AREN'T the "be-all/end-all".... BUT they do have their place.....so what IS the place? And what ARE the differences in the aforementioned tube preamps? What applications do we slutz use them for or MUST (see "can't live without on this source") use them for and WHAT do other NON Tube preamps do they stack and/or partner well with?

Actually, this is the William Shatner style of posting. "BONES, my SHIP is under SEIGE!!!" you know......

vs

[johnnyjellybean]

What a lot of people fail to realize or at least mention is how different any one of those pres' sounds can change drastically with just the change of a tube. Take any tube type and a Mullard Blackburn will sound VERY different from a Telefunken smoothplate. On top of different frequency resonses and colorations, there is the gain factor that not only varies between types but varies even just by changing brands. That to me is what is attractive with tube pres and tube mics.... being able to get a different flavor just by changing a tube.

[khai]

Originally Posted by johnnyjellybean

Take any tube type and a Mullard Blackburn will sound VERY different from a Telefunken smoothplate. On top of different frequency resonses and colorations, there is the gain factor that not only varies between types but varies even just by changing brands. That to me is what is attractive with tube pres and tube mics.... being able to get a different flavor just by changing a tube.

This is SO true. I've just experienced this recently when I put a NOS Amperex USA tube in my audio-technica 4060 microphone. I'm not sure I prefer the sound now but the difference is really radical.