Why buy gear? Better book a REAL studio!

[jindrich]

I know this may sound as heresy here, but after years watching people putting dozens of thousands of $$ of recording equipment into bedrooms/garages I always asked myself what the point of it was at all. Wander a bit over here and you might even see someone with over $100k of stuff, including an API 1608 or similar, in some regular bedroom.

I wonder whether these folks have ever stepped in or considered recording in a proper studio. Do you know the rates these places are going for today? (hint: peanuts).

BTW, when I say "proper studios" I'm not referring to a bunch of gear -whatever good it might be- put into some empty office with a "recording studio" sign and a fancy website, but a professionally designed facility, with private parking, client lounge, full client service and assistants, connections with the industry, staff that organizes the entire recording sessions and get catering, session musicians, piano tuners, etc, and also some kind of residencial options. Ah, I forgot, they also have lot of first class equipment too. In a word, it's the kind of place one needs to invest at least €500k-1million to put up. Consider that acoustics alone are typically in the €2,000 per square meter to build.

Well, if you didn't know, these places are very affordable these days. Here's an example:

Modern World Studios - SSL Duality Desk, Exigy stereo, 5.1 monitoring and more.

This modern SSL Duality studio equipped with more stuff and instruments you can ever use, plus a disneyland kind of lounge, is available for €500 a day, assistant included (US folks think about $500/day).
I'd like to point out that this is NOT an exception. You'll find many similar SSL40xx/Neve VR/80xx equipped professional studios with an equivalent level of service for similar (low) rates, at least in the EU.


But there you still have mere mortals paying €3,000 for a single LA2A or something like that. What's the point of buying a Porsche's driving wheel only, what about the rest of the car?
Don't get me wrong, I think it's perfectly OK for anyone to get a basic, decent writing/composing/preproduction/premixing setup, but getting anything beyond that doesn't make any sense IMO. From that point on it all should be done in a proper studio. Fact is, not only will the results be miles better in a studio, but it is actually cheaper to go that route:


1) NO MONEY EXAMPLE: after writing/composing and after the required preproduction, done at home for as long as needed, a band tracks at one of those 500/day Pro studios with all the bells, whistles and lounge amenities, for five full days (remember, MTV Unpluggeds were done in just one day). After those sessions are done, it's back home to work a bit more on perfectionning and overdubbing and other trickery on say, a cheap mac+logic+ensemble rig. More final vocals could even be added at this stage by renting a real vintage U47 for a week for $400. Keep working in premixing as much as needed, and go back to the studio for another 3 days for the final mix, enough to do at least 4 singles, the rest can be left done ITB.
Total studio bill: $4k, (about the price of a single st tube compressor).
The results of having recorded and mixed this way will never be comparable to anything done in a converted garage, even if someone puts $150k worth of gear in it.


2) SMALL BUDGET EXAMPLE: here I will consider all costs involved in doing an independent record, which could potentially be released by any Major. I consider the usual 4-member band and a fellow friend producer (someone with a good ear), block booking a studio for two whole weeks (14 days), including all residential and food costs. Prices for studio, engineer, food and accomodation are as in the studio linked above (modernworld studios).

After proper pre-production and working on arrangements at home/rehersal space, the 4 band members and fellow producer head to the studio for a whole 14 days of solid work, let's say 10 days for tracking and 4 to mix. Those would be the numbers for the 14 days of the production:

-studio+assistant rate: 7,000
-engineer rate: 2,660
-food for 5: 1,330
-accommodation for 5: 1,330

TOTAL: 12,320 (€ or $, doesn't matter)

Result: a profesionally produced Record is done for around 12k. Less than what it costs to buy a good U47 clone +1073+LA2A.

[Chaellus]

ever think that some of those people with a 1608 in there room are probably professional freelance engineers working on projects from all across the globe? is it me or do you think some mere guy with little knowledge of sound would put down $50K on a console?

[te-problematique]

I see your point for a band making an album. But these days people expect things so fast it's quite hard once you're established and touring to eat to expect a band to be able to devote the sort of time you're talking about. A home studio, given that it will last a lot longer, can make a lot of sense to people. Especially because for that 12 grand you speak of you can have a lot of gear good enough to make a light release album. (pair of sdc's, chameleon labs 7022, PTLE, bunch of dynamics, value LDC, digimax FS, it's not great, but if you can't do it on that then where will you do it?)

[Dean Roddey]

But many of us are doing it as a hobby. It's hard to schedule your hobby. If I get a couple hours to work on my thing and I'll feeling the mojo, it takes me 30 seconds to get going and I'm ready. And of course for a lot of us, a lot of the 'fun' of it is to master the process and create our own content from the ground up.

[vincentvangogo]

Originally Posted by jindrich

...
Result: a profesionally produced Record is done for around 12k. Less than what it costs to buy a good U47 clone +1073+LA2A.

If you buy used equipment, you could get a ton of use out of your mic and chain, then still sell it for the same (or more) than what you paid for it.
I don't entirely disagree with you though, I think it just depends on how much you intend to use your studio and for what purposes.

[MrJulius]

I love music.

I love helping bands.

I do not record for money, I record as a hobby. I get money out of it, but that is just to make what I can do better.

[choinga]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

But many of us are doing it as a hobby. It's hard to schedule your hobby. If I get a couple hours to work on my thing and I'll feeling the mojo, it takes me 30 seconds to get going and I'm ready. And of course for a lot of us, a lot of the 'fun' of it is to master the process and create our own content from the ground up.

+++

[thermos]

I think a lot of it stems from "why hire a plumber, when I can learn about plumbing and do it myself and save boatloads of money." I personally worked at many big studios prior to recording myself, and many times was underwhelmed by the results. The fear of spending money on something that I wouldn't love, plus the thought of never seeing that money again was what got me into recording. Now I get paid! And if it sucks, its my fault. I think a lot of people feel the same way I do.

[the_Chris]

Originally Posted by thermos

I think a lot of it stems from "why hire a plumber, when I can learn about plumbing and do it myself and save boatloads of money." I personally worked at many big studios prior to recording myself, and many times was underwhelmed by the results. The fear of spending money on something that I wouldn't love, plus the thought of never seeing that money again was what got me into recording. Now I get paid! And if it sucks, its my fault. I think a lot of people feel the same way I do.

Can't really argue with that. I've spent money at places before and disliked the finished product so making the investment to learn how to do it yourself doesn't seem that foolish to me.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by jindrich

I know this may sound as heresy here, but after years watching people putting dozens of thousands of $$ of recording equipment into bedrooms/garages I always asked myself what the point of it was at all. Wander a bit over here and you might even see someone with over $100k of stuff, including an API 1608 or similar, in some regular bedroom.

I wonder whether these folks have ever stepped in or considered recording in a proper studio. Do you know the rates these places are going for today? (hint: peanuts).

BTW, when I say "proper studios" I'm not referring to a bunch of gear -whatever good it might be- put into some empty office with a "recording studio" sign and a fancy website, but a professionally designed facility, with private parking, client lounge, full client service and assistants, connections with the industry, staff that organizes the entire recording sessions and get catering, session musicians, piano tuners, etc, and also some kind of residencial options. Ah, I forgot, they also have lot of first class equipment too. In a word, it's the kind of place one needs to invest at least €500k-1million to put up. Consider that acoustics alone are typically in the €2,000 per square meter to build.

Well, if you didn't know, these places are very affordable these days. Here's an example:

Modern World Studios - SSL Duality Desk, Exigy stereo, 5.1 monitoring and more.

This modern SSL Duality studio equipped with more stuff and instruments you can ever use, plus a disneyland kind of lounge, is available for €500 a day, assistant included (US folks think about $500/day).
I'd like to point out that this is NOT an exception. You'll find many similar SSL40xx/Neve VR/80xx equipped professional studios with an equivalent level of service for similar (low) rates, at least in the EU.


But there you still have mere mortals paying €3,000 for a single LA2A or something like that. What's the point of buying a Porsche's driving wheel only, what about the rest of the car?
Don't get me wrong, I think it's perfectly OK for anyone to get a basic, decent writing/composing/preproduction/premixing setup, but getting anything beyond that doesn't make any sense IMO. From that point on it all should be done in a proper studio. Fact is, not only will the results be miles better in a studio, but it is actually cheaper to go that route:


1) NO MONEY EXAMPLE: after writing/composing and after the required preproduction, done at home for as long as needed, a band tracks at one of those 500/day Pro studios with all the bells, whistles and lounge amenities, for five full days (remember, MTV Unpluggeds were done in just one day). After those sessions are done, it's back home to work a bit more on perfectionning and overdubbing and other trickery on say, a cheap mac+logic+ensemble rig. More final vocals could even be added at this stage by renting a U47 for a week for $400. Keep working in premixing as much as needed, and go back to the studio for another 3 days for the final mix, enough to do at least 4 singles, the rest can be left done ITB.
Total studio bill: $4k, (about the price of a single st tube compressor).
The results of having recorded and mixed this way will never be comparable to anything done in a converted garage, even if someone puts $150k worth of gear in it.


2) SMALL BUDGET EXAMPLE: here I will consider all costs involved in doing an independent record, which could potentially be released by any Major. I consider the usual 4-member band and a fellow friend producer (someone with a good ear), block booking a studio for two whole weeks (14 days), including all residential and food costs. Prices for studio, engineer, food and accomodation are as in the studio linked above (modernworld studios).

After proper pre-production and working on arrangements at home/rehersal space, the 4 band members and fellow producer head to the studio for a whole 14 days of solid work, let's say 10 days for tracking and 4 to mix. Those would be the numbers for the 14 days of the production:

-studio+assistant rate: 7,000
-engineer rate: 2,660
-food for 5: 1,330
-accommodation for 5: 1,330

TOTAL: 12,320 (€ or $, doesn't matter)

Result: a profesionally produced Record is done for around 12k. Less than what it costs to buy a good U47 clone +1073+LA2A.

That's a good point but it probably needs a slightly different viewpoint based on the fact that most current top engineers/producers in my field walk the earth to find excellent acoustic space's for drums, be it in old stone built barns or properly designed studio live rooms.
Then rush back home with the hard drive to do vocals, guitar overdubs, keyboards, mix ETC.
Most of the really big studios I have worked for, Polydor Studio 2, Jacobs House, Town house, ETC are all closed now in the UK.
Even the former President of the record producers guild Phil Harding is working away quite happily from home.
I work in a converted stables of a country house the walls are 16.5" thick, originally to stop the horses falling out if they bump into them.
Don't underestimate us small fry we have a habit of being a severe embarrassment to those that do, take my great uncle Henry for instance.
::The Battle of the River Plate::
Here is an example of what's available to me within a five mins drive, if I don't have something that will get her done my mate Pat has and of course vice versa, except I don't publish gear lists anymore I have been burgled seven times since 1986.
But heres Pats nice little collection:
Gemini Studios - Studio
He had Roger Quested do his rooms and monitors, I do my own.

[themaidsroom]

Originally Posted by jindrich

After proper pre-production and working on arrangements at home/rehersal space, the 4 band members and fellow producer head to the studio for a whole 14 days of solid work, let's say 10 days for tracking and 4 to mix. Those would be the numbers for the 14 days of the production:

-studio+assistant rate: 7,000
-engineer rate: 2,660
-food for 5: 1,330
-accommodation for 5: 1,330

TOTAL: 12,320 (€ or $, doesn't matter)

Result: a profesionally produced Record is done for around 12k. Less than what it costs to buy a good U47 clone +1073+LA2A.

i agree

this is a great time for gear makers, not musicians, not engineers, not
producers, not records - gear makers are having their summer of love


be well


- jack

[piano]

Well, I LOVE owning the gear.

Renting out a pro studio with a nine foot steinway D and DPA mics IS expensive - still.

But I get your point for much of it.

[Emanuel23]

Hi Jindrich,

Great point you're making.
Thanks for taking the time to do so!
I have some minor remarks,
but most of them have already been mentioned.

-Emanuel

[nickynicknick]

I agree with the OP. I would even take it a step further and say that will be a movement back to real facilities...imagine this...your gonna make a record and you don't have to worry about...

your small recording room that doubles as a rehearsal space that is jammed to the gills with crap...and sounds like crap (low ceilings, standing waves, bad reflections, smelly carpets, bad ventilation, noise from the space next door etc etc)

Renting gear for bed tracks...setting up that gear...troubleshooting why you can't get three headphone mixes working, why doesn't this preamp work? I need more power bars...do you think fred in 245 can lend us 4 power cables and eight short mic stands...oh shit clips!?...did anyone grab 16 XLR's at the music store? Do you think they be in phase?

recording through Mackie speakers....


Hearing the drums while you are recording them...phase? what phase?...I'm sure this will sound great on playback....

Cymbals, Hi Hat?...don't worry they won't need mics anyway

Having to leave to get coffee and water

Answering the phone....

Latency....

....I can keep going but I'm sure you all see it.....there is something to be said about going to a nice place with good gear, good room, everything patched....the feeling like your going to work and people are gonna help you out...also it gives some definition to your project goals....instead of it being some viscous recording circle.....

....I think artists are getting tired of having to do everything themselves...why should they?

...especially, as noted, when it is particularily affordable right now.

Nick

[soundseeker]

In our experience the OP is 50% right.

The tracking of vocals and accoustic instruments should be in a private space. This affords all the time in the world to create the right sound and concept for the song.

But mixing and mastering just doesnt work out. And as the OP says, there are professionals out there who specialise in just that and they cost peanuts.

Weve tried it with the best gear. but the room plays all kids of tricks on ya. so were selling it. we shouldnt lose too much - it has 6 months guarantee. What can i say, it was worth a try.

btw - consequently there's a Bricasti M7, Hammer, EQPEQ, Anamod 660 and Wagner V72 up for grabs in the uk if anyone wants to add to their bedroom sex appeal!!

[stig_ohara]

Originally Posted by thermos

I think a lot of it stems from "why hire a plumber, when I can learn about plumbing and do it myself and save boatloads of money." I personally worked at many big studios prior to recording myself, and many times was underwhelmed by the results. The fear of spending money on something that I wouldn't love, plus the thought of never seeing that money again was what got me into recording. Now I get paid! And if it sucks, its my fault. I think a lot of people feel the same way I do.

exactly! ive just had to learn how to use an Amek desk just to sell the f**ker.

I dont even want to sell it now because i have learnt so much, i may as well set up my own studio - apparently i only need a few mics and a pc !

[A4722]

Some of those big places are vibe killers. They have jaded people that "have seen it all" and can actually stifle creativity. There can be a phantom sort of tension/pressure (beyond the expense outlay) that seems to make people do things that "stay within accepted bounds" concerning composition etc. It can start to feel very coroporate/assembly line. If you want to do something they don't sonically agree with they can get testy because their name might be associated with it (yet they will get all the credit if it happens to turn out to be popular).

Pre planning and confidence in what you are doing can overcome some of those barriers.....but imagine suggesting some unorthodox technique to a "big time" engineer in "his" environment....it can get rather cold quite quickly...and having this happen after the deposit is down and money spent. Of course, they were cordial and agreeable while discussing the project before the artist signed on.

Big places are great for big budgets because there is time to adjust to working styles etc. , there is also a type of respect given when that much money is spent. For the "little guys", they really have to shop around to find a big place that will work for them.

I think the idea of basic tracks in a decent sounding space and over dubs at home/project studio with final mix/master in a decent place is the best of both worlds, if the decent space can be chosen carefully.

mfb

[GYang]

Originally Posted by MrJulius

I love music.

I love helping bands.

I do not record for money, I record as a hobby. I get money out of it, but that is just to make what I can do better.

Here same
Category of altruists who spent hundreds of thosusands and some even without objective to get anything in return except satisfaction.
Fair enough?

[brandonmangrum77]

If you were recording one album your whole career, then I believe you should go ahead and spend the 12k on recording it in a super nice studio, but most of us will be recording quite a bit of material, and after a while, 12k after 12k after 12k begins to add up to the price of all this gear we're buying. Also, it just feels better to be recording on your own time, with no pressure involved to kill the creativity.

[Niv]

if you have sth around, you can use it wherever and however you want. recording in a too "professional" environment brings the danger of sterile, technical atmosphere destroying the intimacy of your songs (if there is one). which is not nescesseraily the case, but very often as i know that many producers and engineers have their "vision" of a sound which most times is just that little idea of their desperate houswifes - but blown up by luxury gear.

art and logic are better as enemies than as business partners.

[Levi]

For me, budgets are shrinking in all areas of music, and deadlines are becoming quicker and quicker. To book a room, hire all the folks involved, etc. just isn't smart. Now, if I need a great drum room, or if we need the sound of a specific console, that's a different story. BUT, with the amount of fantastic high-end gear available to folks working at home, and a bit of knowledge and wisdom over the years, not to mention you get to see your family once in a while, it's a no-brainer to stay at home for a majority of the work.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by jindrich

I consider the usual 4-member band and a fellow friend producer (someone with a good ear), block booking a studio for two whole weeks (14 days).....

'A fellow friend'...... I suppose said friend should work for free (or more commonly, the band is producing themselves) and in most cases THAT'S where recordings fail. And personally I've never been involved in a commercial pop/rock record with any kind of potential that was done in only 2 weeks. The gear/room/SSL/etc is very important but it's only part of the big picture: Song quality, star quality of the singer, willingness to tour/work hard, advertising budget,etc

The chances that a big label will pick up your 'professionally produced' record as it is are pretty slim and ultimately the logic of your argument would be for the band NOT to spend even 12,320 € but rather hone their craft, develop a fan base and record some quick and raw demos with the intention to eventually be able to work with a great producer and come up with a real record.

There's a lot to be said for doing that even today.

[themaidsroom]

the difference of a real room and a real board that touches everything (not to mention
tape, which actually still is the most hi-fidelity recording medium) is huge.....
people can make great records in five days. any room in nyc or l.a. can be had for
$800 - that's $4000 - i believe this is the rate for steve albini at electrical....
i think people make better, more immediate records in five days - when given
months at home there is no adrenlin......
money spent touring is far greater guarantee of future records than owning
gear.....


be well


- jack

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by themaidsroom

i think people make better, more immediate records in five days - when given months at home there is no adrenlin......

Name a current Top 40 pop/rock record that was done in 5 days total.

[Shaman]

I don´t like the atmosphere in most commercial studios.
Often there´s an aura of ordinary business thoughts and endlessly repeating production schemes in the air which just turns me off.
I like to have my own space which is tailored for my needs.
But on the other side I´m having a real studio
at least real enough for me.

[David-Morpheus]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

Name a current Top 40 pop/rock record that was done in 5 days total.

good point. sometimes it's just not your day. and 5 days is quite a hardcore. a more realistic aproach is rent the room for the things that you can't do at home - for example drums. I see no problems getting really good bass, guitar and vocal tracks at home. and than again if you have the budget rent a room again for mix. and I think it's able to mix great records at home or project studios. a 700 000$ SSL doesnt gurantee a good song either.

[vudoo]

I've worked on several projects where budget was not an issue and the producer still prefer to record and mix 90 % of the project at '' home ''. The end results were just as good or better than records that were done in major studios.

After proper pre-production and working on arrangements at home/rehersal space, the 4 band members and fellow producer head to the studio for a whole 14 days of solid work, let's say 10 days for tracking and 4 to mix. Those would be the numbers for the 14 days of the production:

-studio+assistant rate: 7,000
-engineer rate: 2,660
-food for 5: 1,330
-accommodation for 5: 1,330

TOTAL: 12,320 (€ or $, doesn't matter)

For about 15K you can easily rent a beautiful country house, a full blown PT rig, 16 Ch API pre, 8 ch of great EQs and a bunch of great mics and an engineer for 2 weeks. If you can't make a great record with this, there's a major problem.
Major studios will always have its place but it's not the only game in town anymore. As i've said, sometime, the fact that people choose to record elsewhere has nothing to do with budget but they prefer and gotten better result than within the standard studio set up.

[themaidsroom]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

Name a current Top 40 pop/rock record that was done in 5 days total.

i have no interest in top 40 pop/rock - it is disposable and meaningless at this point
in history - ( take a look at what was top 30 billboard 1973.........that was a different time - almost every artist was relevant -
today is the direct inverse - in three years time - 2011 - the records from 1973 will have surpassed those of 2008 in airplay.......)

i have been lucky enough to work with some real artists

i recorded joan as policewoman's song "real life" in 3 hours with chatting and
laughing
i recorded rufus wainwright's "the maker makes" from "brokeback mountain" in
fifteen minutes including setup
i recorded the forthcoming katell keineg song "st. martin" in two hours

i recorded clark gayton's "were you there ?" with 10 pieces live - 3 takes including
setup and breakdown - 1 hour 50 minutes

all of these recorded to 2" 16 track or 2" 8 track - people playing music live



be well


- jack

[vudoo]

i have been lucky enough to work with some real artists

i recorded joan as policewoman's song "real life" in 3 hours with chatting and
laughing
i recorded rufus wainwright's "the maker makes" from "brokeback mountain" in
fifteen minutes including setup
i recorded the forthcoming katell keineg song "st. martin" in two hours

i recorded clark gayton's "were you there ?" with 10 pieces live - 3 takes including
setup and breakdown - 1 hour 50 minutes

all of these recorded to 2" 16 track or 2" 8 track - people playing music live

Totally agree, when you work with people who can actually sing and play their instruments, 2-3 takes should do it. Cutting basic tracks for a full record in a week is more than reasonable.

[plexisys]

While I think the OP has some good points and the follow on posts also have some good points I think it's pretty clear that most "pros" use a hybrid of the two. Most projects I've worked on had very decent budgets that would allow for pro studio usage. I find it's better for me to do much of the work at "home" and go to a studio for the critical stuff.

I think most free lance engineers/producers have quite a bit of gear today. I have my favorite channel strips/eq/pres etc that I take with me where ever I go. I book the room for the sound more than the gear. I already have the base gear that I need to take with me in the studio.

As with any project it's really a case by case basis. Owning some core gear is to anyones advantage and using a great studio space for a project should equally benefit most people.

Not trying to be PC here I just think the hybrid model works best for most people.