Need some advice for an outboard effects processor

NWSooner · 15th October 2008

Hi all. I'm looking to purchase a high-end external effects processor, and I've done a lot of research but I'm still not quite sure what the best choice is. I've basically narrowed it down to the Bricasti M7, Lexicon PCM96, and Eventide 7600. I've read all the reviews online, searched through all the threads here, and listened briefly in stores but still can't make a decision. And yes, I know they don't do the same things; that's part of the reason I can't make a decision. I can afford one top-of-the-line unit, not two. So I thought I'd ask the folks here for some advice. Basically I'm looking for a high-end external effects unit that I can be happy with for many years, and that I can use as part of my Pro Tools workflow. And as fast as computer power has been increasing, I'd prefer to spend the money on something that I can't replace with a plug-in in two years.

Oh, and I know that everybody likes to talk about their favorite out-of-production device, but in this case I'm only considering currently shipping equipment, not eBay or the like.

The effects will be used on synths, electric guitar, electric bass, drums, and vocals. Generally pop music (New Order and Depeche Mode are my two biggest influences). I mostly work in the box, and I generally prefer plug-ins for the convenience, but I need to free up some CPU and I'm not willing to settle for entry-level MX400 reverb or something along those lines. I'm willing to spend up to about $4k. This is for a home studio so I don't need to impress potential clients; sound quality is what matters, and I want everybody that listens to my music to be able to hear the difference, not just me sitting around with G.A.S. patting myself on the back for having some expensive piece of gear.

Almost nobody that hears my music will see what I used to make it, so a $100 plug-in or a $4,000 external device are the same if they sound exactly the same.

Currently for effects processing I'm using:

Kurzweil Rumour
Line 6 POD X3 Pro (ordered 3 months ago but not shipping for about 4 weeks)
McDSP Revolver
IK Classik Studio Reverb
IK AmpliTube 2
IK Ampeg SVX
TL Space
Electro-Harmonix Clone Theory (analog)

I would also like to use this effects processor in place of the built-in effects of some my keyboards occasionally. (Roland Fantom G, Access Virus TI, Alesis Andromeda, Kurzweil K2000.) Also, I'm using a PC as my primary music computer, so the fact that the PCM96 can be used as a hardware plug-in on Macs is not a plus; I contacted Lexicon and they apparently have no plans to release a Windows version of the software. If they were going to do a Windows version so I could use the PCM96 as a hardware plug-in that would decide it for me. But they're not, so here I am.

(I run Vista x64 with 8GB of RAM as my main PC, but dual boot into XP for music until all of my plug-ins get updated.)

It's not a primary goal, but it would be a bonus if the processor I decided on was useful for my electric guitar/bass stuff as well. Doesn't have to be, isn't a really big deal one way or another. But if it was useful for them, all the better.

I would say that reverb is the most important thing for me, since it's so CPU intensive, so I would like to move that outboard. Chorus, flange, etc. would be nice, if they're better than what I'll have with the Rumour, POD, and various plug-ins, but it's the sort of thing that isn't that expensive to do well in software. So those kinds of effects, while definitely important, take a backseat to the quality of the reverb.

After listening to the various units and reading lots of threads and reviews, here are the conclusions I've come to:

Bricasti M7 - Best natural sounding reverb. I only got to listen to this briefly; from what I heard and read it seems like a reverb-only unit, not a multi-effects unit. Which might argue that this is the best choice; the other stuff is more likely to be easy to do in software. I haven't heard too much about the 2.0 software update; if the Bricasti could do the Lexicon-sounding stuff just as well as the "real space" stuff I doubt I would feel the need to post, I'd just buy one. If Brian and Casey would get around to getting a TDM and RTAS plug-in written for this thing so it was a seamless part of your DAW, I don't think I would have posted here at all.

Lexicon PCM96 - Jack-of-all-trades. Has the best Lexicon-sounding reverb because.... well, it's a Lexicon. Can do all the multi-effects stuff. I'd buy this if I was using a Mac. I don't have a Mac. I didn't get to spend enough time with the choruses and such, so I don't know how they compare to plug-ins, Line 6, etc. Given the lack of software for the other two options, this is what I would buy if Lexicon was shipping Windows plug-in code. But they're not, so they're an external hardware unit just like the others.

Eventide H7600 - By far the best multi-effects unit. Sounds great, and this is the unit that I would use the most with my guitars and bass, for sure. But the reverb would be, IMO, last place amongst the 3. (Admittedly, all three have excellent reverb, so we're splitting hairs.) This one is the most flexible. It can do everything. But it costs a few hundred more than the Bricasti, and well over $1000 more than the PCM96, and frankly the other two have better reverbs from what I've heard. The ultra-harmonizer would never be used for vocals, but sounds pretty cool for synths so I might use it there, but it's in the chorus/flange category. Not a make-or-break issue.

So here I am. I'm torn. I'm going to buy ONE top-of-the-line external processor. I won't buy another for 5 years. I will definitely continue to upgrade and buy various plug-ins. I would emphasize effects for my keyboards as the primary goal, guitar/bass is a bonus, as are vocals.

What do the slutz think? (Besides "Buy all 3" which I can't afford,

e.)

Andrew Kinsey · 15th October 2008

Because the Eventide unit is so unique compared to the others it depends on what kind of effects you need the most. If it were me personally and i had to pick one of these units over the other, id get the Eventide. But that has more to do with the style of music i produce than anything else.

In your possition i would look to get the best of both worlds by getting an H3000 which will give you the Eventide effects and cost alot less than the newer H7600.

Then with the money you saved you can buy either the Bricasti or Lex which will cover you for the reverb side of things.
Five years is a long time to wait when you dont have to.

Ackman · 16th October 2008

dude - you're over thinking the effects thing. You said you would prefer to stay ITB and save CPU power then go with UAD-2 - their 140 Plate sounds on par with any effect ITB and OTB that I've heard off the ones that you mentioned. Then there is powercore.

I have a PCM96 with a MAC PRO and I don't worry about effects anymore. I also have UAD and I get can get great results with both. There are a lot of other great sounding plugs out there such as IK Multimedia. For the jack you are willing to part with get UAD-2 and a few other native units and call it a day.

OurDarkness · 16th October 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWSooner

I'm going to buy ONE top-of-the-line external processor. I won't buy another for 5 years.

If you don't want to buy anything else for 50 years (rather than 5) get the Eventide H-8000FW.

peeder · 16th October 2008

In this specific situation, and none other, I say...

...Eventide.

NWSooner · 17th October 2008

Thanks for the replies all.

@ Ackman - I like the idea of a DSP card that can run multiple instances of reverb and other effects. I looked into the UAD cards and that would be a possibility. The Plate 140 gets really good reviews. The other two (DreamVerb, Realverb Pro) not so much. Are there any other high end reverb plugins that run on this hardware that I missed? Are they really as good as the 3 hardware units mentioned above?

@ OurDarkness - The H7600 is a stereo version of the same hardware as the H8000FW minus the FireWire, right? I don't need the extra processor (4 I/Os instead of 2), and I don't need FireWire unless that means that there is a Windows RTAS or VST plug-in that allows the external box to be used as a hardware plug-in; is this the case? I haven't really looked into the H8000FW since it's $1500 more than the rest (I could almost buy a PCM96 AND a Bricasti M7 for that price).

@ peeder - What is it in your opinion about the Eventide that it puts it over the top for my needs?

Thanks again everybody!

peeder · 17th October 2008

Because of genre.

15th October 2008	#1
NWSooner Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,085 Thread Starter	Need some advice for an outboard effects processor Hi all. I'm looking to purchase a high-end external effects processor, and I've done a lot of research but I'm still not quite sure what the best choice is. I've basically narrowed it down to the Bricasti M7, Lexicon PCM96, and Eventide 7600. I've read all the reviews online, searched through all the threads here, and listened briefly in stores but still can't make a decision. And yes, I know they don't do the same things; that's part of the reason I can't make a decision. I can afford one top-of-the-line unit, not two. So I thought I'd ask the folks here for some advice. Basically I'm looking for a high-end external effects unit that I can be happy with for many years, and that I can use as part of my Pro Tools workflow. And as fast as computer power has been increasing, I'd prefer to spend the money on something that I can't replace with a plug-in in two years. Oh, and I know that everybody likes to talk about their favorite out-of-production device, but in this case I'm only considering currently shipping equipment, not eBay or the like. The effects will be used on synths, electric guitar, electric bass, drums, and vocals. Generally pop music (New Order and Depeche Mode are my two biggest influences). I mostly work in the box, and I generally prefer plug-ins for the convenience, but I need to free up some CPU and I'm not willing to settle for entry-level MX400 reverb or something along those lines. I'm willing to spend up to about $4k. This is for a home studio so I don't need to impress potential clients; sound quality is what matters, and I want everybody that listens to my music to be able to hear the difference, not just me sitting around with G.A.S. patting myself on the back for having some expensive piece of gear. Almost nobody that hears my music will see what I used to make it, so a $100 plug-in or a $4,000 external device are the same if they sound exactly the same. Currently for effects processing I'm using: Kurzweil Rumour Line 6 POD X3 Pro (ordered 3 months ago but not shipping for about 4 weeks) McDSP Revolver IK Classik Studio Reverb IK AmpliTube 2 IK Ampeg SVX TL Space Electro-Harmonix Clone Theory (analog) I would also like to use this effects processor in place of the built-in effects of some my keyboards occasionally. (Roland Fantom G, Access Virus TI, Alesis Andromeda, Kurzweil K2000.) Also, I'm using a PC as my primary music computer, so the fact that the PCM96 can be used as a hardware plug-in on Macs is not a plus; I contacted Lexicon and they apparently have no plans to release a Windows version of the software. If they were going to do a Windows version so I could use the PCM96 as a hardware plug-in that would decide it for me. But they're not, so here I am. (I run Vista x64 with 8GB of RAM as my main PC, but dual boot into XP for music until all of my plug-ins get updated.) It's not a primary goal, but it would be a bonus if the processor I decided on was useful for my electric guitar/bass stuff as well. Doesn't have to be, isn't a really big deal one way or another. But if it was useful for them, all the better. I would say that reverb is the most important thing for me, since it's so CPU intensive, so I would like to move that outboard. Chorus, flange, etc. would be nice, if they're better than what I'll have with the Rumour, POD, and various plug-ins, but it's the sort of thing that isn't that expensive to do well in software. So those kinds of effects, while definitely important, take a backseat to the quality of the reverb. After listening to the various units and reading lots of threads and reviews, here are the conclusions I've come to: Bricasti M7 - Best natural sounding reverb. I only got to listen to this briefly; from what I heard and read it seems like a reverb-only unit, not a multi-effects unit. Which might argue that this is the best choice; the other stuff is more likely to be easy to do in software. I haven't heard too much about the 2.0 software update; if the Bricasti could do the Lexicon-sounding stuff just as well as the "real space" stuff I doubt I would feel the need to post, I'd just buy one. If Brian and Casey would get around to getting a TDM and RTAS plug-in written for this thing so it was a seamless part of your DAW, I don't think I would have posted here at all. Lexicon PCM96 - Jack-of-all-trades. Has the best Lexicon-sounding reverb because.... well, it's a Lexicon. Can do all the multi-effects stuff. I'd buy this if I was using a Mac. I don't have a Mac. I didn't get to spend enough time with the choruses and such, so I don't know how they compare to plug-ins, Line 6, etc. Given the lack of software for the other two options, this is what I would buy if Lexicon was shipping Windows plug-in code. But they're not, so they're an external hardware unit just like the others. Eventide H7600 - By far the best multi-effects unit. Sounds great, and this is the unit that I would use the most with my guitars and bass, for sure. But the reverb would be, IMO, last place amongst the 3. (Admittedly, all three have excellent reverb, so we're splitting hairs.) This one is the most flexible. It can do everything. But it costs a few hundred more than the Bricasti, and well over $1000 more than the PCM96, and frankly the other two have better reverbs from what I've heard. The ultra-harmonizer would never be used for vocals, but sounds pretty cool for synths so I might use it there, but it's in the chorus/flange category. Not a make-or-break issue. So here I am. I'm torn. I'm going to buy ONE top-of-the-line external processor. I won't buy another for 5 years. I will definitely continue to upgrade and buy various plug-ins. I would emphasize effects for my keyboards as the primary goal, guitar/bass is a bonus, as are vocals. What do the slutz think? (Besides "Buy all 3" which I can't afford, e.)

15th October 2008	#2
Andrew Kinsey Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2006 Location: London Posts: 743	Because the Eventide unit is so unique compared to the others it depends on what kind of effects you need the most. If it were me personally and i had to pick one of these units over the other, id get the Eventide. But that has more to do with the style of music i produce than anything else. In your possition i would look to get the best of both worlds by getting an H3000 which will give you the Eventide effects and cost alot less than the newer H7600. Then with the money you saved you can buy either the Bricasti or Lex which will cover you for the reverb side of things. Five years is a long time to wait when you dont have to. __________________ Best Wishes, Andrew Kinsey High End Audio Equipment Specialists In the UK & Europe

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Effects processor	Awesome	Low End Theory	2	5th January 2008 12:52 AM
An outboard effects processor for around $2500	IPLayHamers	High end	15	31st October 2006 10:01 AM
using outboard reverb effects processor	feyshay	So much gear, so little time!	2	21st December 2005 12:05 AM
Guitar Effects Processor Advice	Mr. Boston	So much gear, so little time!	4	6th October 2005 05:48 AM

16th October 2008	#3
Ackman Gear maniac Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 232	dude - you're over thinking the effects thing. You said you would prefer to stay ITB and save CPU power then go with UAD-2 - their 140 Plate sounds on par with any effect ITB and OTB that I've heard off the ones that you mentioned. Then there is powercore. I have a PCM96 with a MAC PRO and I don't worry about effects anymore. I also have UAD and I get can get great results with both. There are a lot of other great sounding plugs out there such as IK Multimedia. For the jack you are willing to part with get UAD-2 and a few other native units and call it a day.

16th October 2008	#5
peeder Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2006 Location: No longer participating here. Posts: 6,705	In this specific situation, and none other, I say... ...Eventide.

17th October 2008	#6
NWSooner Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,085 Thread Starter	Thanks for the replies all. @ Ackman - I like the idea of a DSP card that can run multiple instances of reverb and other effects. I looked into the UAD cards and that would be a possibility. The Plate 140 gets really good reviews. The other two (DreamVerb, Realverb Pro) not so much. Are there any other high end reverb plugins that run on this hardware that I missed? Are they really as good as the 3 hardware units mentioned above? @ OurDarkness - The H7600 is a stereo version of the same hardware as the H8000FW minus the FireWire, right? I don't need the extra processor (4 I/Os instead of 2), and I don't need FireWire unless that means that there is a Windows RTAS or VST plug-in that allows the external box to be used as a hardware plug-in; is this the case? I haven't really looked into the H8000FW since it's $1500 more than the rest (I could almost buy a PCM96 AND a Bricasti M7 for that price). @ peeder - What is it in your opinion about the Eventide that it puts it over the top for my needs? Thanks again everybody!