Dokken / Michael Wagener mix question

[michaiel]

I have been using Mr. Wagener's mix from Dokken's Hole In My Head (Dysfunctional) as a reference to mix my own songs and i cant figure out the reverb. I was hoping he could chime in and give me some advise on how this was mixed and with what.
I am new to this forum and have been looking for about a month trying to answer this on my own, but I am stuck....
thanks

Michaiel Roberts
MySpace.com - Uro Steppe - Oklahoma City, Oklahoma - Psychedelic / Classic Rock / Metal - www.myspace.com/urosteppe
Uro Steppe Official Site

[mwagener]

If I remember it right, there was not much reverb on anything. Reverb was turning into a bad word around that time, so we used it sparingly.

I just put a little "Tiled Room" (PCM70) onto the bottom snare mic (gated, keyed by the top snare mic track) and some smallish wooden room on the guitars. Then the usual Plate verb on the vocal. It's been a while, so don't hold me to it.

[michaiel]

Thanks for the reply. This is great information. The mix just had such a fantastic tight well rounded sound. I just couldnt figure out where to start with the reverb.

[RRokkenAudio]

Man, i wish it were that easy! I've tried it, but no luck lol, Still sounds fake lol. Great record. Wish i could find out what drums he was using, g.. This was supposed to be a solo Don Dokken Record I think.

BTW: Any tips on how to pan the reverbs? I've been just running the snare to a reverb buss with the pcm70 impulse, and it sounds too wide, then i narrow it and its so apparent that its narrowed, just doesnt seem to "flow", You can tell were the reverb "zone" is, ya know ?

~Rob.

[Curtis Franklin]

roll off alot of highs on your reverb. you dont need that shiz in there and it makes your verb sound CHEAP.

[RRokkenAudio]

http://shup.com/Shup/181461/holeinmyhead.mp3 That is as close as I've come to that snare.

[anseo]

Did you know Michael Wagener gives production workshops?

Sounds like an ideal opportunity to learn more about his way of doing things.

As a matter of fact, I hope to join one of those workshops in the near future.

[Slikjmuzik]

I've been filtering the crap out of my verbs lately. Mixes sound better. I use the UAD 1081 to do it. Useless highs and lows gone. Reverbs sound warm and I can EQ them as well with this Plug-in.

[DarkSky Media]

Originally Posted by Curtis Franklin

roll off alot of highs on your reverb. you dont need that shiz in there and it makes your verb sound CHEAP.

Well - it makes CHEAP reverbs (plus a few expensive ones that aren't worth the asking price) sound cheap.

Frankly, when I have to slice and dice a reverb to get it to not sound like a smoking turd, I go use something else instead. YMMV

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by anseo

Did you know Michael Wagener gives production workshops?

Sounds like an ideal opportunity to learn more about his way of doing things.

As a matter of fact, I hope to join one of those workshops in the near future.

Come on down (or up)

[RRokkenAudio]

That would be my dream come true to hang out down there MW. Work and $$ kinda tight!

~Rob.

[RRokkenAudio]

Here is my attempt.. ugh.... I just can't get it hahah, pro records just have soo much Deep Controlled bottom end...r It surely must be magic

I bet if I had a real amp, it would sound better, illusion wize. VST isn't cutting it, soo much of this record seems like the ambiance is drawn from the guitar and vocals...

Was that snare verb panned center also? I have to play with a gate still, anytime i touch a gated verb it sounds like 1984 again.

One of the hardest things, for me is being able to hear the natural snare verb in the snare track without it getting lost.. such as "long way home" a lot of natural snare verb there.. is that coming from the overheads?

~Rob.

[riffmachine]

Originally Posted by anseo

Did you know Michael Wagener gives production workshops?

Sounds like an ideal opportunity to learn more about his way of doing things.

As a matter of fact, I hope to join one of those workshops in the near future.

I just attended the August workshop. It was a wonderful learning experience and Michael is a great guy. Go for it. - paul

[RRokkenAudio]

Ugh, There's no way this snare could just be a mic in front of it. I've tried every single snare sample on the internet and cant find anything to get that low end in there, or the smack. Even tried tried the steven slate(ouch, what a mistake).

It's magic, or all of those hardware components its going through. I have yet to hear any semi-pro get ANYTHING even remotely close to this.

How do you get solid low end(without the 200hz whooof) ???

I have spent probably a year trying to get anything that sounds like ANY dokken record, just cant do it.

No matter WHAT. Nothing works to get a hard HARD hitting snare like this.

So, its either theres some magic super special mic lol
Some super magical "pro only" eq frequencies that open up to pros only.

Or its all that outboard gear.

What does a snare like this sound like raw? All the snare samples I find, and record sound like plain ole snares and trying to get any low end out of them around 200 just makes them muddy.

Is it realistic in thinking, I can record a snare drum and make it sound ANYTHING like this? Just ITB?

::Completely frustrated::

I was in Nashville a couple months ago, no $$ so I didn't stop by.. But is your DVD series going to be available soon MW?

[Ron Vogel]

Ditch the verb and go for delays; but still roll off the highs and lows. I like to scoop out a little EQ from the source and fill it in with the ambience to reduce the mud...should get you a little tighter sound.

[RRokkenAudio]

ahhhh I've never thought about that one!!