need HELP with choosing correct 2 channel preamp and set of mics

[Skylar20]

Hey! This is my first post here, but I've been reading this forum for years now.

I am looking to buy a high end 2 channel preamp and set of high end mics to use primarily as drum overheads with the preamp (but I also want to use the preamp with bass, acoustic guitar, and sometimes vocals).

Well, my price range for both the preamp and set of mics can reach around $4000.

The music my band plays is similar to 90's alternative rock and modern hard rock (think stone temple pilots, incubus, rage against the machine). I am currently using an LA 610 for vocals, bass, and guitar and an 8 channel presonus preamp for drums.

Preamps I have had in mind include the avalon 2022 and drawmer 1969
Mics I have had in mind include the nuemann km184

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Skylar20]

any ideas?

...the anticipation is killing me!

thanks!

[Don Clendenon]

if this is your first real preamp you cant go wrong with the great river mp2nv and if you are really thinking about the km184 check out the mercenary km69. its more like a real km84 than the 184 ever will be and then maybe alawson 47 to go with it

[SRS]

+1 on the Great River pres. I have 4 channels and they are very good all-around pres and nice as overhead pres. I would go for Shure KSM-32 for OH or Josephson C42. You can always go the Lunchbox route (which I have and suggest). That way you can eventually fill it with various pres for various uses.

I also have 6 API 512c pres, 2 of which I often use as OH pres...

[Skylar20]

First off, thank you for the helpful replies!

Second, keep in mind the music I record is pretty much hard rock.

I did check out the mercenary audio km69 and liked what they were all about.

On the mercenary audio site they are offering a special deal: 2 km69s and Sebatron VMP2000e pre. I do not know anything about Sebatron products and no one has mentioned this type of preamp for me.

Should I purchase this package or would I benefit more from the great river pre?

Thanks! any thoughts?

(remember, 90% of my music is fairly aggressive, yet not metal)

[Skylar20]

I am currently looking at the sebatron 4000 - the 4 ch. pre...

What do you all think of the sebatron and m.a. km69 combo. Good for rock music?

Any thoughts would be wonderful, thanks!

[Norman Lindsey]

we have a sebatron VMP4000E that we use on practically everything. drums bass guitars keyboards sax and vocals etc. it's flexible and fast.

it's a very versatile high quality preamp. the 'D.I' inputs are also great for bass.
I can't think of a better deal as far as price per channel .

[Skylar20]

Thank you!

I feel very close to buying the sebatron and m.a. km69s.

Any more comments to confirm or deny that this is the best path for rock music with a budget up to $4000?

[Barry Lird]

I've heard great things about the KM69s, but have not heard them myself. I have a pair of amazingly cherry KM84s which I use on overheads with a a pair of Avedis MA5s, and so far this combination has yielded pretty close to my ideal drum sounds. So if the KM 69s sound as close to KM84s as they are supposed to, I'd strongly recommend getting those and the MA5s.

Together with an Averill Lunchbox, this puts you at just a hair under 4k, and will allow you to inexpensively (relatively) add more pres or EQs later, along with all of the other obvious (and much discussed) benefits of the 500-series route. Good luck! And feel free to PM me - I may have some audio samples I can dig up.

[Skylar20]

Sounds good, thanks!

Anyone else have any comments on the Sebatron 4000 with Mercenary Audio km69?

[phonzadellika]

For around the same price as a new GR NV2, you can get a used Vintech 473, which would give you 4 channels with EQ capabilities. I got mine for about $2200 on this forum. I also use the EQ way more than I ever really thought I would. It makes getting a slamming kick and a cracking snare way, way too easy during tracking. Thought I'd give you a different 4 channel option than the sebatron (which I've never heard).

As for microphones, I have TLM 103's and I really like them. Super duper detailed, very accurate. Not very forgiving though. Really captures the balance between the cymbals, tom hits, and depth of the toms well in the right room if mic'd right. I'm sure there are a ton of mics that are as good or better. I like the TLM 103 for acoustic guitar too (why I originally bought them) if you do any of that with your music.

I play mostly metal, and Tom Waits-meets-Pink Floyd type stuff on the side. I like my gear for both sides of the coin. I thought I'd chime in since you're into heavier rock music and are a recording musician and I'm sort of doing the same thing you are and have shopped around a little.

[mark.james]

I'm not sure why people don't mention the Universal Audio 2108 more.. I have one and love how it sounds, especially on heavy guitars.

Mark

[warhead]

BLUE Dragonfly + A Designs MP2A

Big, detailed sound with great depth.

Both very classy pieces that will bring a strong game...

War

[Doc Mixwell]

Why not have a system in place that works on everything, which is what the VMP2000VU/KM69 combo does offer. However the Great River, or the NPNG 2NW with the KM69's would just about shoot your recordings to the moon and back.

The Great River MP2NV is the Sherman Tank of pre amplifiers and it will never let you down with any microphone on any source in my experience, and with the KM69's it is nothing short of remarkable, but I love how much versatility the Seb has with these microphones for drums, acoustic anything, room tracks, vocals, bass, and electric. These things are almost like tubed API pres, as they are fast as hell, but with a load of character and detail, and they are described in the same fashion; THEY ALWAYS WORK.

[NathanEldred]

Not a lot of people around here have heard (of) them, but for the mics the ADK TL's with their new AU capsules are very big and smooth sounding. The AU versions have the new ADK custom shop upgraded capsule (even the stock TL's sound really nice, they blow away a 414 BULS IME), but the AU's are to a new level and very underpriced for the quality they bring to the table.

They have a CK-12 type capsule and a K67 type capsule, so one is airy (12), and the other is a bit more mid emphasized (67, but not dark really). That would leave you $2400 for a stereo preamp which gives you a lot of options. So it really depends on the direction you want to go.

The TL's while they have a huge sound are still quite clean because they are FET transformerless, so a preamp with a bit of coloration might be a good match. Great River NV, Atlas Juggernaut, LaChapell 583s are three of my favorites that meet that colored criteria, that still retains the detail and transient that's great for overheads but adds a bit of flattery.

In general though, just my thoughts, large diaphragm condensers sound much bigger and more flattering on overheads than small diaphragm. It's just the nature of the capsule sizes. And I don't like 'Neve' on overheads (Great River is incredible, but it's faster and more detailed than a 1073 preamp, hence my recommendation). Good luck, hope this helps a bit.

[YRLK]

I'd agree with the vote for KM-69's. If they do in fact sound better than the KM-84, those are the mics you'd want.

As for pre's... I dig the Vintech suggestion, and I also dig the idea of an Aurora GTQ2. I'm not super fond of the Great River line... I tend to like the "older" Neve sound.

Here's ONE more suggestion for your thoughts:

You COULD also get a lunch box and put 2 different pairs of different pre's in there... like 2 x MA5's and 2 x API 512c's. That way you'd have very different pres for various sounds and textures you're after on a given day.

That might take you slightly over budget though... just something to think about either way.

B

[Skylar20]

Thank you so much for the replies. They were all helpful.

I feel like I have to go with a four channel preamp because the two extra channels will bring my bass drum and snare drum from an 8 channel presonus preamp to a high end pre, which makes me very happy !

That being said, I have read/ heard nothing but stellar reviews for the Sebatron pre. Basically I discovered the Sebatron and km69 combo through Mercenary Audio and am pretty much convinced to follow their professional suggestion.

So, I have decided that I will be purchasing the four channel Sebatron pre as well as a set of km 69s.

Thanks for all your help everyone!

[Bob Amirian]

Originally Posted by Skylar20

First off, thank you for the helpful replies!

Second, keep in mind the music I record is pretty much hard rock.

I did check out the mercenary audio km69 and liked what they were all about.

On the mercenary audio site they are offering a special deal: 2 km69s and Sebatron VMP2000e pre. I do not know anything about Sebatron products and no one has mentioned this type of preamp for me.

Should I purchase this package or would I benefit more from the great river pre?

Thanks! any thoughts?

(remember, 90% of my music is fairly aggressive, yet not metal)

+1 on the Great River.
MP-2NV is brill, though for the aggressive music it's got one con: it's only a stereo preamp, without compressor/limiter, which for harder music and LOUD signals will demand your attention.
On the pros side: it's got HUGE lows, it's just AWESOME when recording bass guitar (even detuned 5-string, double-bass or bass instrument called W.A.R.), and if you keep the signal hot yet not clipping you just can't go wrong with it.