It's ProTools...no, it's Logic...no, it's ProTools...

[Daedalus77]

First, let me say that our studio runs an extensive PT|HD rig. So this is not meant to be contentious.

I've just watched the new videos on Digi's site about ProTools 8. And I confess I'm having flashbacks to last fall.

While I'm quite excited by Digi's enhancements to PT, I can't help but note the uncanny resemblance of PT8 to Logic Studio 8. The GUI similarities alone are absurd. It looks more like Logic than Logic. And the specific improvements—enhanced MIDI capabilities, scoring additions, new comping features, extensive bundled plug-ins—only further the closeness of the two platforms.

I know this is stating the obvious. But it does make me giggle.

Anyone else feel like this release highlights the extent two which the release of Logic Studio got the folks at Digi/Avid worried?

And that's apparently a good thing.

Anyway, I'm psyched to get it rolling at our shop. (After the perfunctory bug-clearing phase, of course.)

D.

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by Daedalus77

Anyone else feel like this release highlights the extent two which the release of Logic Studio got the folks at Digi/Avid worried?

I think Digi were NEVER worried.

They just played smarter — held off, waited for Logic, implemented some 'Logic-ness' and pipped them at the post. Again.

[Football]

Originally Posted by Daedalus77

I've just watched the new videos on Digi's site about ProTools 8. And I confess I'm having flashbacks to last fall.

While I'm quite excited by Digi's enhancements to PT, I can't help but note the uncanny resemblance of PT8 to Logic Studio 8. The GUI similarities alone are absurd. It looks more like Logic than Logic. And the specific improvements—enhanced MIDI capabilities, scoring additions, new comping features, extensive bundled plug-ins—only further the closeness of the two platforms.

D.

I saw the exact same thing. They are responding to what is happening in the industry around them (more VIs, better midi etc...). Make no mistake, THEY HAVE TO. It's not whether or not they want to, they have to. When Logic offers all they offer for $500 the LE users might jump ship (like I did). It's very basic business.

Good for them for responding this way.

Now if they can just implement some other very basic must have features maybe I'll take them out on a date again.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by Football

I saw the exact same thing. They are responding to what is happening in the industry around them (more VIs, better midi etc...). Make no mistake, THEY HAVE TO. It's not whether or not they want to, they have to. When Logic offers all they offer for $500 the LE users might jump ship (like I did). It's very basic business.

Good for them for responding this way.

Now if they can just implement some other very basic must have features maybe I'll take them out on a date again.

Yes very cool, but I had 64 audio tracks and 20 VIs running on Logic last week, with the CPU barely moving. When I see LE do that, I'll be more comfortable.

TH

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by C Heat

I think Digi were NEVER worried.

You said it

[Football]

Originally Posted by C Heat

I think Digi were NEVER worried.

Then call it what you will but Digi had to respond with this type of release because of Logic 8 (and to some degree every DAW already offering lots of important features/VIs etc...).

Ask anyone working at Digidesign that has a position a notch higher than receptionist, they all realize this and have reacted accordingly which will greatly benefit users (especially LE users).

[knudtsy]

I wonder if they've added auto delay compensation to LE in 8.0.

[C Heat]

Hi Football

I understand your point, but perhaps customer loyalty is not an issue for some.

They'll jump from PT to Logic to PT as often as they change underwear.

I'll just weather the PT storm and stay loyal

[AMIEL]

I am so happy with the coming of PT 8!

I think is PT is getting there!!!...

From all the things I heard that are new in PT8 and that are awesome new features!

I just hope they included Track Folder and MIDI Learn!

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

I just hope they included Track Folder and MIDI Learn!

Don't worry Amiel, one more look at Logic 8 and they might make this wish come true for you

[andsonic]

I will have a few questions when I go to AES tomorrow.

Is there latency compensation?
Does more tracks = more i/o? (We absolutely need 24 tracks in our studio)
Has there been any improvements to the (LE) audio engine?


Frankly, with our investment in Samplitude, DP, Logic, & our interfaces/converters, we are not in a position to go HD. It just doesn't make sense. But if digi is willing to make LE a competitive product with Logic, we may just switch.

But 24 i/o & latency compensation are mandatory if ProTools LE can be taken seriously.

I spent over $1000.00 for the Samplitude software. I would spend that much on PTLE if the features were comparable.

[barryjohns]

Originally Posted by andsonic

But 24 i/o are mandatory if ProTools LE can be taken seriously.

For you and probably a few of the folks around here. But in the big picture, the vast majority of users using Protools LE, Logic, Cubase, DP, etc are using no more than 2 I/O at a time, by a long shot. People buying and using these DAW are guys/gals at home, recording for their own enjoyment. That is who these guys market to, not guys trying to run a studio. That's not to say that studio guys are not using these things, that would be stupid to say, but the vast majority of users do not have a studio and at the most, hardly own enough Mics to record a basic drum kit and can't fill the 8 channels if I/O that they have at their disposal. People need to put this into perspective when understanding what is Digidesign's priority, or any other DAW maker.

Now, no one will disagree with the lack of ADC in Protools. Just stupid, or smart, depends.

[Fredrik]

I think the new look is good for Logic. It will make it less awkward to make the switch.

Seriously though, I always liked the pro tools look. The GUI change strike me as a sign of insecurity as well as a compliment to logics graphics design team.

[nativeaudio]

Whether they were 'worried' or not doesn't really interest me much, but both Logic and PT are approaching each other in areas where the other clearly is better. I'm not surprised. It still seems that they're both 'holding back' a little...

Logic 8 has ADC, but still hasn't got elastic time or beat detective (although it has 'Follow Time' and transpose for audio tracks). It doesn't have unique audio file IDs or something similar to DAE. Logic has offline bouncing, support for interleaved files dynamic DSP allocation - neither of which PTHD has. And - since Logic 8, all these things. Both apps have stuff the other doesn't.

And soon, PT 8 will have a lot of stuff L8 already has (or has more of):
More virtual instruments
Score editing and real time score monitoring of recorded MIDI notes
Configurable Transport Panel
More tracks (up to 64 stereo tracks in PTLE with some tool kit, 255 stereo tracks in L8)
More plugins per channel (10 in PT, 15 in L8)
Dockable editors in the main window
PT seems to get "LFO-able" automation control (which L8 doesn't have yet)
Color coding of MIDI notes
Comping in Arrange (which seems better and not-as-good as Logic's comping at the same time)

Apogee just announced Symphony64 (allowing for more ins and outs per card than ever), with SBus and Vbus.

It simply seems that those systems are getting closer and closer in all areas except price and I/O compatibility.

[cleartrueblue]

They went darker and dock the MIDI editor in the bottom, but for me the similarities end there. There are some clumsy visual things in Logic (like the font's appearance), and I don't see that here.

To me it's simply an easier-on-the-eyes and more modern GUI - done right - and still has an unmistakably "Pro Tools" look to it. It appears a logical (ahem) and functional evolution of the Pro Tools GUI, and any resemblance to Logic I see as coincidental. Hell, they're not going to make it purple just to stop people saying they copied Logic. And where else are you going to dock the MIDI editor?

I use Logic (regrettably). Hoping PT8 will let me kick it in the can.

[jyc]

it's a merge of sonar/logic and pro tools..

[narcoman]

STILL got a 4GB file limit though. Makes it tough for recording live concerts for TV ...... that's why I use RADAR but would dearly love to take my PT rigs out.

Looks good. Not worried about Digi response time on these things - they're don't tend to rush stuff out. Which I'm happy with.

Re - the automation drop downs. I hope that the new Nuendo style drop down automation channels DON'T mean that we've lost the overlay one. I't one of my pet hates of Nuendo - I like to have all the volumes open occasionally and don't like the massive clutter it gives in Nuendo!

[Beastie]

does this mean i can upgrade all this to the latest with 8?

wonder what the upgrade paths are?

anyone have any ideas?

or should i get a duet and logic? lol (already have logic 8)

peace

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

And soon, PT 8 will have a lot of stuff L8 already has (or has more of):
More virtual instruments
Score editing and real time score monitoring of recorded MIDI notes
Configurable Transport Panel
More tracks (up to 64 stereo tracks in PTLE with some tool kit, 255 stereo tracks in L8)
More plugins per channel (10 in PT, 15 in L8)
Dockable editors in the main window
PT seems to get "LFO-able" automation control (which L8 doesn't have yet)
Color coding of MIDI notes
Comping in Arrange (which seems better and not-as-good as Logic's comping at the same time)

...and:

Save as template
Fader to increase waveform view in Arrange
Check for updates (built into OSX for Logic)
Coloring of markers
Horizontal/Vertical Zoom-buttons in the lower right corner of Arrange

Again - not really impressive from a Logic users point of view, since Logic has this stuff already, but these changes may prevent some PT users to want to switch to Logic.

PT8 also implemented coloring of channel strip, which actually was removed from Logic a couple of versions ago. It would be nice to have this back.

ETA: A nice thing PT8 has that L8 does not have, is brightness/contrast fader for the channel strips.

[macleodgrant]

logic has a lot of catching up to do to be on par with the competition imo

digidesign are treading on new and interesting territory.

mean while apple are trying to just get logic to work the way it should but until they get this groundwork done, they can't move forward and they seem to be aware of it.

perhaps that's why it's taking so long for them to catch up - ah, who knows!

[gearaddict]

I just wish you didn't have to listen to the whole song to bounce it..It makes for a long day when you want to bounce down seperate tracks!!! Just that would make me happy

[Stiff]

Certainly there's a Logic look to it, but I don't think it will feel like Logic. I'm comfortable in working in either and think they have very different feel to them. A change in colors and icons as well as a separate MIDI editor window (FINALLY!) won't change much of that. I think Pro Tools will still feel like Pro Tools, and Logic like Logic.

Originally Posted by DielonYaMon

I am curious to know how the virtual instruments and plug-ins are going to compete between Logic 8 and PT 8.

What are your thoughts on that?

While I think the included AIR instruments are lightweight compared to Velvet, Strike and the rest of the bunch, I think they'll kick Logics ass. AIR makes IMO the overall best sounding instruments today. They were good as Wizoo, but are badass now.

[Stiff]

Originally Posted by Beastie

does this mean i can upgrade all this to the latest with 8?

wonder what the upgrade paths are?

anyone have any ideas?

or should i get a duet and logic? lol (already have logic 8)

peace

Upgrading to the latest version of Pro Tools is usually a fairly cheap deal compared to many other apps. $75 bucks for LE and twice for HD or something like that.

[digi882]

Let me first say im an protools user and ex hd owner as well. A few observations, first the problem i had with hd was this from a price point perspective whilst the TDM dsp was good to a point, and the very nature of having dsp adds to stability as well, BUT the i/os inparticular the 96i/io for 1400 GBP are utter shite. I cannot believe how bad it was until i traded my HD rig for a radar rig using LE for that matter. Now with quad core all over the place stability can be had on a native system and if you add a uad card it improves it no end (until you run out of DSP that is) nothing the new uad 2 cant solve.

Im glad they have introduced protools 8 but seriously it will never ever ever have the same impact logic studio made and for that reason apple have won hands down. doesnt matter whether or not it is stable or has issue the point is for apple it shored up their bottom line.

Practically everyone now has logic somewhere and uses it and for goodness sakes logic is light years ahead in terms of VI's and midi . EXS24 is so old but yet more computer tolerant than structure plus it was blooming free. Lets get one thing clear though a DAW is a DAw is a Daw its all down to users makign the best out of it and adapting it to suit. Digi lost a trick there if they want to impact they have to declare open war on logic studio. Maybe some of you guys cannot see it coming but it is a matter of time before TDM will be truly redundant, the time table is ticking like it or not digi knows this well hence no new hd gear it would be utter madness to do for the foreseable future. Apple are already looking at the graphic card dsp co-processing this would open up a new realm for native plugins. HD as a studio package will still be around but GUYS has anyone seen what SSL are doing to survive oh yess that ol bottom line thingy, they are opening up to the middle and lower market in business speak thats where the numbers are and yess numbers guarantee profits. If digi' s model were studios only theyll be dead now, in some respect digi have an ace up their sleeve still complete "native protools" watch them reel that out once times get hard.
But as we all know competition is good for the consumer.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by Stiff

Upgrading to the latest version of Pro Tools is usually a fairly cheap deal compared to many other apps. $75 bucks for LE and twice for HD or something like that.

i was thinking hardware as well - like 003rack factory MPTK for new versions!

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by digi882

Practically everyone now has logic somewhere and uses it and for goodness sakes logic is light years ahead in terms of VI's and midi . EXS24 is so old but yet more computer tolerant than structure plus it was blooming free. Lets get one thing clear though a DAW is a DAw is a Daw its all down to users makign the best out of it and adapting it to suit. Digi lost a trick there if they want to impact they have to declare open war on logic studio. Maybe some of you guys cannot see it coming but it is a matter of time before TDM will be truly redundant, the time table is ticking like it or not digi knows this well hence no new hd gear it would be utter madness to do for the foreseable future. Apple are already looking at the graphic card dsp co-processing this would open up a new realm for native plugins. HD as a studio package will still be around but GUYS has anyone seen what SSL are doing to survive oh yess that ol bottom line thingy, they are opening up to the middle and lower market in business speak thats where the numbers are and yess numbers guarantee profits. If digi' s model were studios only theyll be dead now, in some respect digi have an ace up their sleeve still complete "native protools" watch them reel that out once times get hard.
But as we all know competition is good for the consumer.

I agree with this, Apogee just updated Symphony as well. 64 i/o on 1 card with 1.6ms latency and an ability to node several computers via a low latency buss. In addition to this they have some kind of vitual bus so you can network for example FCP and Logic on different computers in realtime. Check the video.

Symphony 64

[Football]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

I agree with this, Apogee just updated Symphony as well. 64 i/o on 1 card with 1.6ms latency and an ability to node several computers via a low latency buss. In addition to this they have some kind of vitual bus so you can network for example FCP and Logic on different computers in realtime. Check the video.

Symphony 64

Yes, very interesting indeed. Especially that you can use memory intensive plugs running independently/outside of Logic (on same computer) to overcome Ram limitations within Logic. If I didn't explain that well everyone will see it in the video.

Pretty impressive.

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

I agree with this, Apogee just updated Symphony as well. 64 i/o on 1 card with 1.6ms latency and an ability to node several computers via a low latency buss. In addition to this they have some kind of vitual bus so you can network for example FCP and Logic on different computers in realtime. Check the video.

Symphony 64

This is where this partnership is getting very interesting , seems like the Apogee Symphony/Logic team up are going from strength to strength , this release might also be the precusor for a Logic update soon , my feeling is it will be a heavy update, they've been at it for awhile unless they went on vacation for 6 months that is

Either way as a Logic user i like what they have done with P.Tools, duh

[Perelandra05]

I'm still not very impressed with the new PT8 from the video. Maybe working with it would be a different story, but i'm seriously thinking of switching to a logic system with the new Apogee symphony 64.

One quick question for Logic users;

Is anybody using Lynx Converters with their Logic system? If so, what are your thoughts and what's your configuration?

[BLUElightCory]

Pro Tools 8.0 is not necessarily modeled after Logic, it's modeled after the color scheme on the ICON ES, which was deemed to be easier on the eyes over long periods of time (which is probably the same logic employed for the Logic DUI).

There is a "brightness" slider that allows you to adjust the color scheme back to the silver/gray look of earlier versions of Pro Tools.