Submixing questions/ Virgin & Processed signals etc....

[thethrillfactor]

My opinion:

Do it and see if you like it.

I've never tried the STC-8 for this purpose, but that doesn't really mean squat(i have tried the others on your list).

Yes you do need the auto delay compensation if doing in a DAW or you will be wasting copying tracks and nudging them to death.

On an SSL its not necessary(i do it everyday) and i mix both Rap and rock.

[edIT]

thrill, thanks for the advice as always. however ADC doesn't solve the issues of latency only plugin latency. Although Cubase has the option to essentiall do "time adjuster" on every track and make the signal earlier, I still don't think I can get it as precise as a board per se. So what do you think my options are? print and nudge? or fiddle with the "time adjuster"-like settings til I get it right (iow: use my ears?). thanks.

[max cooper]

If you're using an SSL and an STC-8 with no DAW, no converters, no plugins, etc. then there's no compensation...last I checked, analog audio runs through cables at roughly the speed of light... I don't think Superman can hear the delay!

On your rig, the easiest way to compensate for latency is run your paralell compression on something like a click track and manually nudge until they match.

Does that help, or did I miss the question?

[edIT]

max you are totally on the money. i do not have a console so i guess i will have to nudge / play with the timing slider in cubase sx. but even on a board won't 2 identical signals on 2 separate tracks still phase / cancel? I mean essentially bussing the signal out to a comp and bringing it back on a return on a console will still yield the same signal just colored and squashed. i mean won't this still give you cancellation / phasing on a console?

[Lanstar Zero]

Originally Posted by edIT

max you are totally on the money. i do not have a console so i guess i will have to nudge / play with the timing slider in cubase sx. but even on a board won't 2 identical signals on 2 separate tracks still phase / cancel? I mean essentially bussing the signal out to a comp and bringing it back on a return on a console will still yield the same signal just colored and squashed. i mean won't this still give you cancellation / phasing on a console?

In cubase, set up a group with your compressor. Then, use sends to control how much of each track you are directing to the compressor bus. The group track is now your parallel compression.

[edIT]

I understand and I know how to set up groups/ FX busses and external FX busses in SX, my main question is about phasing and cancelation.

[jbuntz]

Originally Posted by max cooper

If you're using an SSL and an STC-8 with no DAW, no converters, no plugins, etc. then there's no compensation...last I checked, analog audio runs through cables at roughly the speed of light... I don't think Superman can hear the delay!

On your rig, the easiest way to compensate for latency is run your paralell compression on something like a click track and manually nudge until they match.

Does that help, or did I miss the question?

Transformers cause a SLIGHT delay due to hysteresis. That said, I don't notice the cancellation when blending a dry signal with a compressed signal.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by edIT

I understand and I know how to set up groups/ FX busses and external FX busses in SX, my main question is about phasing and cancelation.

I thought you had PT which has compensation for the converters.

In the old days i would copy the tracks i wanted to send out,shift those back and on the return it would line up perfectly.

Of coourse it would start to eat tracks(i would end up with mixes that went from 64 tracks and easily cracked the 128 mark).

Hey there is a reason people love to mix on SSL's.

[edIT]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I thought you had PT which has compensation for the converters.

Thrill, I had 2 MIX cubed rigs not long ago but got rid of both of them for SX (essentially Nuendo w/o 192k and a bunch of surround features), and a bunch of good outboard and haven't looked back. SX also has ADC for plugin delay compensation but it also has a "time adjuster" like feature built into every track. But the upside unlke Time Adjuster is that it lets you make the signal earlier unlike PT Time Adj. which only lets you delay the signal. I will have to fiddle with the click track sent to outboard technique that was mentioned above. Will get back to you guys with some results later.

[Midlandmorgan]

(legit question...)

"Of course it would start to eat tracks(i would end up with mixes that went from 64 tracks and easily cracked the 128 mark..."

Does PT have a mute/inactive feature? Samplitude (and I'm sure others) have the ability to either just mute a track or mute/inactive the track...in inactive, it can still appear (or not if your wish) but is not any drain on CPU (proprietary or otherwise...)

Just curious...is THIS how so many PT guys end up with 80 tracks?

Perhaps using the old technique of slate striping all your tracks would give you a stable reference point...I do this anyway as a calibration method, and the very few times I've run out to an external and come back in, any latency is compensated by aligning the "new" processed track with the old original visually.

Back to Topic (I hope)...does SX have freeze/trackmove? If so, then would it be possible to move all the "processed tracks" to one side of the mixer screen (channels 49-72 for example) and just use them?

[edIT]

Originally Posted by Midlandmorgan

(legit question...)

"Of course it would start to eat tracks(i would end up with mixes that went from 64 tracks and easily cracked the 128 mark..."

Does PT have a mute/inactive feature? Samplitude (and I'm sure others) have the ability to either just mute a track or mute/inactive the track...in inactive, it can still appear (or not if your wish) but is not any drain on CPU (proprietary or otherwise...)

Just curious...is THIS how so many PT guys end up with 80 tracks?

Perhaps using the old technique of slate striping all your tracks would give you a stable reference point...I do this anyway as a calibration method, and the very few times I've run out to an external and come back in, any latency is compensated by aligning the "new" processed track with the old original visually.

Back to Topic (I hope)...does SX have freeze/trackmove? If so, then would it be possible to move all the "processed tracks" to one side of the mixer screen (channels 49-72 for example) and just use them?

Well last time I used PT was 6.7 and as I recall it did not have a mute/ inacive feature that freed up DSP although some plugins in bypass will free up DSP but not all of them. SX DOES have the freeze function on audio tracks and audio instruments. But an easier way is to simply turn off the effect or instrument thus instantly freeing up DSP as opposed to printing a "virtual hidden track" with the freeze function. And yes you can select all those tracks and either dump them all into a folder to free up screen space OR toggle the selected tracks to a different portion of the screen. very handy.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Midlandmorgan

(legit question...)

"Of course it would start to eat tracks(i would end up with mixes that went from 64 tracks and easily cracked the 128 mark..."

Does PT have a mute/inactive feature? Samplitude (and I'm sure others) have the ability to either just mute a track or mute/inactive the track...in inactive, it can still appear (or not if your wish) but is not any drain on CPU (proprietary or otherwise...)

Just curious...is THIS how so many PT guys end up with 80 tracks?

The answer to the first is yes.

The answer to the second is no.

I also did it for the recall.

I am crazy nut remember!!!

But i don't deal with this anymore since i've gone back to mixing strictly in analog.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Midlandmorgan

(legit question...)



Perhaps using the old technique of slate striping all your tracks would give you a stable reference point...I do this anyway as a calibration method, and the very few times I've run out to an external and come back in, any latency is compensated by aligning the "new" processed track with the old original visually.

The only problem with this technique is that you can't monitor the processing which is key when mixing.

[Midlandmorgan]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

The only problem with this technique is that you can't monitor the processing which is key when mixing.

I believe you can monitor this process in"Live-Input Mode"...

Once aligned as I described below, you can bring in as much or as little of the processed track as you wish...