Board Automation vs. DAW Automation

jb_studio · 7th May 2005

Hello all,

I have a mixing preference question for everyone. I'm wondering how valuable folks consider automation on analog boards these days, and I'd like y'all to chime in with your personal experiences. I'm not talking about SSL consoles where the automation/recall component has always been a key feature, but rather mid-level boards which have been retrofitted with automation as contrasted with the automation capabilities of most DAW's (when used in conjunction with an analog desk)...

What are the advantages, in your opinion, of each way of working? For instance, if you mix on an automated console, is the tactile work surface the main appeal, or is gain staging a key factor for you? If you are using DAW automation with a board for stems and outboard processing, how are you liking the results? And which method do you feel facilitates more efficient recalls?

Moreover, if you found two quality analog boards with identical features - except one had a reliable automation system and one didn't -- how much more would you be willing to pay for the automated desk? 10k? 5k? Not one penny? Okay, maybe the question is too general to put an exact price on it, but please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks guys -- JB

Rick Sutton · 7th May 2005

I have an Otari 54 board with discmix automation. The Discmix was well worth the extra $20,000 and it payed for itself many times over. But since I've switched from 2" to Protools the Discmix has been turned off and the I really don't miss it. I've heard a lot of discussions of the pros and cons of mixing on an analog console while using the Daw automation, but for me it has worked out really well. If I were to purchase another analog board, automation wouldn't be something that I would pay extra for.

Drumsound · 7th May 2005

My console has very archaic automation. Optifile Tetra VCA faders and mutes. I use a 2" or RADAR so even though its simple and clunky I'm quite glad to have it. It allows me to do more mixing without anybody around. I like to get the mix really happening before the client hears it. With auto I can have the console doing all the moves and I can stand in the back of the room near the clients and watch their faces when they first hear the mix. I like that a lot.

I'm kinda anti-DAW because I think computers a huge pain in the ass and I don't wanna deal with them for work. That said, if I got over my phobia I might do a lot of thing with DAW auto if I had a DAW. I'd still use the console a lot because I like the sound of my console and my mind works better on the "one knob one function, everything is accessible at all times " system that is a console and outboard.

I have a simple brain...

I'd pay large dollars for moving faders, but not for VCAs.

jb_studio · 9th May 2005

Thanks for the great input, guys...very helpful.

Anybody else?

raal · 9th May 2005

would definitely pay the extra $ for analog fader automation - main reason being for use with analog compressors. there's been recent talk on this forum about people actually using DAW automation w/outboard compression to their advantage - but i usually prefer tweaking a sound til i like it, doing the gain moves afterward. at any rate w/ automated analog faders you have the choice. if you have outboard compressors, without analog faders, you don't.

maskedman72 · 9th May 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumsound

I'm kinda anti-DAW because I think computers a huge pain in the ass and I don't wanna deal with them for work.
.

my thought exactly.

i vote for console automation. i just like physical knobs and faders.

Musiclab · 9th May 2005

I prefer to use the console automation rather than changing gain in a DAW.

~ufo~ · 9th May 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musiclab

I prefer to use the console automation rather than changing gain in a DAW.

yup, got my PT faders on 0dB come time to mix.
the only disadvantage is that I can't do pan automation on the console.
effects like that I need to do manually or dedicate a stereo track to...
I can have 36 outs max so I find that annoying.

other than tha, gimme consomation!

€0,02

studjo · 9th May 2005

Corrective mixing is done in the puter - everything else on the console.

Jo

7th May 2005	#1
jb_studio Gear maniac Joined: Mar 2004 Location: New York City Posts: 190 Thread Starter	Board Automation vs. DAW Automation Hello all, I have a mixing preference question for everyone. I'm wondering how valuable folks consider automation on analog boards these days, and I'd like y'all to chime in with your personal experiences. I'm not talking about SSL consoles where the automation/recall component has always been a key feature, but rather mid-level boards which have been retrofitted with automation as contrasted with the automation capabilities of most DAW's (when used in conjunction with an analog desk)... What are the advantages, in your opinion, of each way of working? For instance, if you mix on an automated console, is the tactile work surface the main appeal, or is gain staging a key factor for you? If you are using DAW automation with a board for stems and outboard processing, how are you liking the results? And which method do you feel facilitates more efficient recalls? Moreover, if you found two quality analog boards with identical features - except one had a reliable automation system and one didn't -- how much more would you be willing to pay for the automated desk? 10k? 5k? Not one penny? Okay, maybe the question is too general to put an exact price on it, but please let me know your thoughts. Thanks guys -- JB

7th May 2005	#3
Drumsound Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il Posts: 5,185	My console has very archaic automation. Optifile Tetra VCA faders and mutes. I use a 2" or RADAR so even though its simple and clunky I'm quite glad to have it. It allows me to do more mixing without anybody around. I like to get the mix really happening before the client hears it. With auto I can have the console doing all the moves and I can stand in the back of the room near the clients and watch their faces when they first hear the mix. I like that a lot. I'm kinda anti-DAW because I think computers a huge pain in the ass and I don't wanna deal with them for work. That said, if I got over my phobia I might do a lot of thing with DAW auto if I had a DAW. I'd still use the console a lot because I like the sound of my console and my mind works better on the "one knob one function, everything is accessible at all times " system that is a console and outboard. I have a simple brain... I'd pay large dollars for moving faders, but not for VCAs. __________________ Tony Oxide Lounge Recording See the Oxide Lounge! Follow me on TWITTER! WWJMD? Come see me on the Tape Op boards! It's only inches on the reel to reel

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7th May 2005	#2
Rick Sutton Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2003 Location: Atascadero, CA Posts: 4,055	I have an Otari 54 board with discmix automation. The Discmix was well worth the extra $20,000 and it payed for itself many times over. But since I've switched from 2" to Protools the Discmix has been turned off and the I really don't miss it. I've heard a lot of discussions of the pros and cons of mixing on an analog console while using the Daw automation, but for me it has worked out really well. If I were to purchase another analog board, automation wouldn't be something that I would pay extra for.

9th May 2005	#4
jb_studio Gear maniac Joined: Mar 2004 Location: New York City Posts: 190 Thread Starter	Thanks for the great input, guys...very helpful. Anybody else?

9th May 2005	#5
raal Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2004 Location: mexico Posts: 4,959	would definitely pay the extra $ for analog fader automation - main reason being for use with analog compressors. there's been recent talk on this forum about people actually using DAW automation w/outboard compression to their advantage - but i usually prefer tweaking a sound til i like it, doing the gain moves afterward. at any rate w/ automated analog faders you have the choice. if you have outboard compressors, without analog faders, you don't.

9th May 2005	#7
Musiclab Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2002 Location: Elmont NY Posts: 6,275 3 Reviews written	I prefer to use the console automation rather than changing gain in a DAW.

9th May 2005	#9
studjo Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 2,414	Corrective mixing is done in the puter - everything else on the console. Jo