Would you ship a high priced item overseas to a guy with one post?

[Johnkenn]

So - here's the deal. I have a buyer for my CM7, but I'm big-time nervous about it. He has one post on GS. He has an unconfirmed address in Switzerland (which PP says is not out of the ordinary). I really have never wanted to ship out of the country, so I said I would consider it if he paid PP and shipping...he agreed to that. Then I said I would not declare the mic a lesser amount for customs...he had no problem with that. Now, he's sent me the money via paypal - I have it in my account - but he has an unconfirmed address. How can I be sure this guy isn't going to claim I sent him an empty box and then do a chargeback on my Paypal account? One thing Paypal said was that since this wasn't an Ebay item, they would not get into researching whether or not he received everything that was described - so if that's true - he's taking an even bigger risk than me...Maybe you guys will think it's no big deal, or you will see a bunch of red flags...

It just makes me extremely nervous and I need some advise on how to do this without getting hornswaggled, or whether I should refund the money and move on. I'm talking $5100 here...

Thanks!
John

[lm66]

European Paypal adresses are always considered as unconfirmed in US.
Mine still looks unconfirmed though I made a lot of PP payments since 5 years.

If you're not confident you should have asked him for a bankwire, it takes 5 business days to be on your account but you're sure not to have bad surprise later.

[Johnkenn]

BTW -
I offered to cover Paypal and shipping if he wanted me to ship somewhere in the US - that way I could be out of the nightmare that is international shipping. However, he still wanted me to ship it to him there and was willing to pay shipping, paypal and customs...
Makes me nervous...

[Radioman]

Try to ask a payment through Escrow or similar method

[aotwmusic]

I'd just have someone film you taping up the box in the UPS/FedEx store, paying for it, and turning it over to the employee there. Then if he says it's an empty box, you can prove that you mailed it...

That might seem extreme and out of the ordinary but there's nothing like evidence to make sure that you're not taken advantage of!

[Johnkenn]

BTW - he offered a bank transfer, but I've honestly never done one. How does it work? Pardon my stupidity, but I'm not going to give the guy my account number.

[heathen]

If he's alreadt paid you $5000 then I doubt he's a scammer, but yeah you should send it registered post with insurance cover so the parcel can be tracked by both of you. They will have to sign for it.

[nukmusic]

first of all...you should have a totally separate bank account for paypal/ebay/etc. One that you transfer money in and out when needed. That way if anything goes wrong... just close the account. I'd transfer any payments or extra funds to a primary band account. You should also snap photos of what you shipped before and after you pack it.

[Johnkenn]

Thanks, guys...I'm kind of thinking since he's already paid, that he's really the one that's assuming the risk. Thee guy is probably totally on the up and up, but you can never be too cautious.

[dhiltonlittle]

you have every right to be cautious!

my brother was in a similar situation selling a macbook pro and was scammed.

i'm sure it's fine but i'd be VERY careful.

[squeegybug]

Bank transfer is absolutely the best and safest way for any transaction, international or not. Nothing to it from your end, except that your bank will likely charge you a receiver's fee. Mine is usually around $12. Once the money is in your account it is *yours*, and cannot be reversed/charged-back or disputed, unlike credit cards or Paypal.

All you need to do is send the buyer your bank name, bank routing #, and your account #. He will arrange the transfer with his bank and will have to pay a fee for that as well. There is absoutely no danger from giving someone your bank information. What could they possibly do with it? This is how all secure money handling operations have been performed in international banking for many years.

As for international shipping, I have had excellent success using USPS Global Express Mail. Typically about half or less of the cost of Fedex/UPS/DHL/etc. Deliveries to Singapore and China within 3-4 days. Insurance and tracking numbers available. Simple one-page declaration form that you can fill out online or at the post office. I think that service is renamed and slightly different now (probably a bit more expensive), but still much better than the alternatives.

Steve

[Johnkenn]

Hey - thanks, squeegy...great info. About giving out an account number - how is that not dangerous? I've just heard so many horror stories. I've always heard that you never give out your account number...

I do like the fact that there can't be any chargeback though. I had that happen to me with a software auth code sale. Paypal froze the amount of the sale in my account and then put it up for review. I sent them documentation proving that the guy got the auth code and was using it. I talked to him and he said that he didn't do the chargeback - even tried to dispute it himself. After all that, Paypal refunded him his money. Unbelievable. Thankfully, he was honest and he mailed me a check for the amount.

[barryjohns]

There is no way in the world I would do this, too much of a gamble. I would only ship something overseas that is if moderate value and only to people on this site with a long-term relationship on this site and some references.

I would never consider it on eBay. I've lost a lot of sales due to my perspective on this, but no way I'd gamble on this.

Just my 2cents.

[vudoo]

I've gotten screwed doing transaction via Ebay and Paypal. As suggested, the best and safest way is have the buyer wire money into your account or certified bank draft.

[Johnkenn]

I have to say - I don't have a great feeling about it...but the money is there in my account right now. Maybe I should refund his money and only do it if it's a bank transfer...

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

About giving out an account number - how is that not dangerous? I've just heard so many horror stories. I've always heard that you never give out your account number...

You ever write a check to anyone? Then they already have all that information, it is printed on the check!

Steve


PS just a clarification -- the 'bank routing number' I mentioned earlier is not the same as the one on your checks, it is a specific Federal Reserve number assigned to each bank. Your bank will have that information. AFAIK US banks no longer use the SWIFT codes for international wires, rather just their own Federal Reserve bank code.

[Fleaman]

Paypal is just the middleman for credit card charges and ultimately the card company (visa, MC, etc) rules. That means, if the card was stolen, or the customer is unhappy for just about any reason, they can do a charge-back and paypal will pass it on to the seller.

In the merchant business (companies/retail stores that take credit cards), customers can chargeback and the merchant is guilty until proven innocent....which unfortunately can take a long time (months and months) while the card company is very biased towards the card holder. Not to mention the lost hrs dealing with this (which can be insane).

You can transfer the paypal balance to your bank and withdraw the funds in cash. It might be a good idea to have a separate bank (not just a separate account) for this. I'm not sure if paypal can withdraw a chargeback from your bank if it was a Card payment? But ultimately you could still lose your paypal account and/or bank account if you refuse to cover a chargeback.....but at least you would have cash in hand, no?

Anyone have further insight on this?

At this point there is nothing to guarantee he doesn't have a fraudulent card, so that is what you need to be aware of.

PS> What happened to the Beatles avatar?? Kinda liked it....

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

BTW -
I offered to cover Paypal and shipping if he wanted me to ship somewhere in the US - that way I could be out of the nightmare that is international shipping. However, he still wanted me to ship it to him there and was willing to pay shipping, paypal and customs...
Makes me nervous...

Anyone know what a CM7 in Europe costs? If about the same or not much more than the total costs of this transaction (mic + ship + customs), it could be a big red flag.

Where in Switzerland is he?

[PMoshay]

Be very careful if you used paypal or he used a credit card to pay with paypal.

He has 90 days to get a full refund with M/C or Visa with very little reason why, then it's totally up to you to get your money back.......... and i hope you know alot about the law in Switzerland and have time to go there and take him to court if he's a scammer.

I had a guy pay me with paypal with his M/C, i shipped to his verified address....... 88 days later he got all his money back from M/C and paypal charged me back........ i had to take him to court in his home town and get my money back...i won, but it was a nightmare, AND PAYPAL WILL NOT DO ANYTHING TO HELP YOU, especially if its a foreign transaction.

How much do you know about Swiss law?

[jeffatbkk]

I'm an American living as an Expat in Bangkok. I buy gear from Ebay, Vintage King, etc. However I have it shipped to my folks house in the States where I pick it up and pack mule it back to Thailand. So, what's my point? Take it from a guy over here, I wouldn't sell/ship stuff overseas, for reasons stated above. Just my two cents from a guy over here, lots a snakes across the pond.

[userofgear]

hello,

there sure are a lot of people posting about this o.p.'s extremely difficult dilemma. i wonder if the guy he is trying to sell the gear to knows about the internet. maybe he has read some of these posts. what do you think?

my suggestion would be to give the microphone to me for safekeeping while you decide what to do with the money. if the guy doesn't rip you off, i get to keep the microphone [nothing he can really do about it]. if he does rip you off, you don't get the microphone back [no worse than if you had sent it to him, but now i'm happy with a new microphone, and that's always good], and you call the bank [or whoever] and tell them you got ripped off, and you want 1.) a new microphone [which they can buy from me], or 2. credit to your account [i'll split it with you].

userofgear

[8tracks]

I just sold a keyboard for $1650 through paypal to a guy up in washington state . The day that I got a instant payment from him into my paypal account. A guy from paypal called me telling me that when I ship it to him have ups required a signature to confirm that he recieved it. He told me i have $2000 in seller protection. He knew all my information. Is it normal for paypal to call people?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by 8tracks

Is it normal for paypal to call people?

I don't know, but I get calls from them at least once or twice a month.

[fanriffic]

Hey JK,

I'm in U.K..bought a whole load of high price items from over the pond-including a CM7(gt).Never an issue my end-but if you're feeling -paypal him back and go with a bank transfer-no risk to you-you could even offer to cover fees..but he's buying a 5 grand mic,paying customs on top..probably not concerned about a $20 fee!!

Business's use bank transfers all the time-you'll need to give him your account number,swift code,bank name,holders name,routing number..(your bank can tell you all that)..and maybe bank address.

Like previous poster said no more risk than giving out a cheque..and if you ever use credit cards online-a Whooole lot less risky than that!!!

F

[Johnkenn]

How long do bank transfers take?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

How long do bank transfers take?

Domestic USA: 1 day

International: You can never know... I've had some take 2 weeks to clear.

[fanriffic]

..about 3-5 days to be cleared,in my experience-should show as pending sooner.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by squeegybug

Bank transfer is absolutely the best and safest way for any transaction, international or not. Nothing to it from your end, except that your bank will likely charge you a receiver's fee. Mine is usually around $12. Once the money is in your account it is *yours*, and cannot be reversed/charged-back or disputed, unlike credit cards or Paypal.

All you need to do is send the buyer your bank name, bank routing #, and your account #. He will arrange the transfer with his bank and will have to pay a fee for that as well. There is absoutely no danger from giving someone your bank information. What could they possibly do with it? This is how all secure money handling operations have been performed in international banking for many years.

As for international shipping, I have had excellent success using USPS Global Express Mail. Typically about half or less of the cost of Fedex/UPS/DHL/etc. Deliveries to Singapore and China within 3-4 days. Insurance and tracking numbers available. Simple one-page declaration form that you can fill out online or at the post office. I think that service is renamed and slightly different now (probably a bit more expensive), but still much better than the alternatives.

Steve

+1 thumbsup
IME there is far more scamming going on in the USA than in europe.
Beware of companies pretending to have a european office etc. though, these are mostly fronts.
No one can do anything with your bank account number. Giving a credit card number is an entirely different matter.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by 8tracks

I just sold a keyboard for $1650 through paypal to a guy up in washington state . The day that I got a instant payment from him into my paypal account. A guy from paypal called me telling me that when I ship it to him have ups required a signature to confirm that he recieved it. He told me i have $2000 in seller protection. He knew all my information. Is it normal for paypal to call people?

I don't know, but empty your paypal account regardless.

[chrisso]

It's very sad that non USA members are being smeared in such a broad and unthinking way.
I've bought and sold gear on this site and via Ebay sites all over the world. Never had a problem using bank wire transfers, security or time taken - they typically take anything from 3 days to a week, depending on hours of business, public holidays and weekends.
I think the Paypal/Ebay situation is full of potential pitfalls and I'm VERY careful when going that route.
And I think it's reasonable to worry about a buyer with 1 x Gearslutz post.
But what about an American Gearslutter with one Ebay post?
But I agree with the above, suppose your seemingly honest buyer has read through this thread?
Also, this stuff like 'foreign' or non-US citizens are potential 'snakes' is bordering on xenophobia.
(def: fear of people from other countries).

To the OP, if selling outside the US makes you nervous, which is fine, you should never have accepted the guy's money, let alone started a thread to discuss his character in publlc.