Question for all you "Current" Commercial Hip-Hop Engineers

[kataztraphy]

Sup guys, i kinda asked this question in another thread "but" i'd like to hear it from a real experienced engineer who mixes commercial hip-hop currently and who is up to date with all the new stuff going on in mainstream hip-hop nowadays. Someone who has used SSL's, Neve's, and various outboard gear to mix and engineer mainstream hip-hop. Im mostly just focusing on my "drums sounds" right now. Someone who is into hip-hop and RnB only.

Now i have pretty much every hip-hop drum sample cd that i know of right now from sample companies and the internet hip-hop drum guys. I also have tons of drums sampled from vinyl through this guy i know. Tons of funk,soul, drum loops only sampled from the original records. After going through literally around 3000 drum hits i only kept around 30 or so kicks, a few more snares, a few good claps,ect. Not too much. I also stack and layer a lot of my claps,snare/claps, and some kicks i can pull it off. But you have to have the right good sound even to layer with. But im realy picky and these sounds that i have are killer. I've been comparing them back to back with the new commercial records out now like 50 Cent, Game, G-Unit, Shady, Ect. Pretty much only the commerial hit records.

So what i want to do now is to take the few sick drums that i've kept and pre mix them and pre master them before i use them to produce a track. Kinda like what dre does. So im not really a experiencd engineer but i know somebody who is pretty good but he has really not too much experience with outboard gear like SSL's and Neve's, ect. Probabbly what the top hip-hop engineers are using.

So i would like to rent some outboard gear for a week or two and let this guy do his thing and premix and master my drum hits. So i was wondering what outboard gear should i rent for Kicks, Snares, Claps, Rims, Hi-Hats, and Percussion ? Like which EQ, Compressor, Line Input Pre, and what ever else i'll need to get the job done industry standard. Even if i'll need different outboard gear for each drum sound catagory i dont care just whatever will give me the oppertunity to get these hits sounding industry with the right engineering (which wont be done by me). I also have SSL channel strips available to me for rent aswell and also my drums will be all in mono.

Now i guess i better explain what sound im after for my drums. Well the general sound of the commercial hip-hop hits and top 10's that are on BET, 106 & Park, and the radio, ect. Everything is clean sounding but not Britney spears type clean dull and harsh. I really love the analog sound for drums. All my synths are analog too and i use an MPC 3000. I also love the whole G-Unit, Shady, Dre camps sound. Even some of the new Hit RnB records coming out i love how the drums sound. Very analog sounding.


Anyways i'd be really greatfull if any experinced Commercial Hip-Hop / RnB engineer could step forward and give me some help with what gear to rent to get this done industry standard and get my drums to sound like how i explained. Someone who only does hip-hop and RnB and is up to speed with the current mainstream records happening right now. I've heard sooo much about how the SSL's are so punchy on drums. Is this what most hip-hop engineer's are using to Mix their drums?


P.S. Does anybody know where i can buy some more really good clean drum hits from? Im out of options. Any source out their? Any companies who make and sell drum sounds to current producers out there? Like people who mike up and record drums that sound hip-hop and not acoustic? I know alot of these producers are miking up and recording their drum hits with their engineers and stuff. But the drum hits sound good for hip-hop and it pretty much sounds like it wasnt miked up but it was. I dont have access to a studio nor can i afford the time. Plus i dont know anything about miking up drums that sound hip-hop nor do i know anybody who does. Im simply looking to buy them. Any help on this issue would be great too. Thanks and Peace.

[syra]

kataztraphy,

let me ask you something...

HOW MANY TIMES CAN YOU ASK THE SAME QUESTION?

So many people (including Thrill) advised you on what gear you should try out in your other thread...what is it you don't get exactly?...are you ********?

[kataztraphy]

...

[SiliconAudioLab]

Just sample the WHOLE record or CD and claim it's all you - pretty much what's been goin on in that industry for years.

[Umlaaat]

lol.. this is the funniest shit i've read all day. i think syra nailed it on the head.

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by kataztraphy

syra, dont get lippy with me son cause i'll have to get nasty with you and im not tryin to do that. Thrill hasnt done hip-hop recently and he's not up to snuff with the current hip-hop shit thats out now. He hasnt used the new SSL on drums for hip-hop so he doesnt know. I asked for someone who engineers only hip-hop/RnB and nothing else you little monkey. Some who's used SSL's and shit who does commercial hip-hop now not years ago. Some one who's down with the hip-hop game.

And also i asked another question i never asked before and was hoping to get some help with that too.

Kataztraphy, What's wrong with Thrill's advice? I've read his posts and think that he knows wassup. Same with Drew and ECue and almost everyone on this forum.

Just because he aint Hip Hop? That's hilarious man... especially coming from a guy who 'got some equipment but can't get the sounds of his idol producers'. You're talking about 'audio engineering'. And lots of guys here can get the same results in any genre of music.

Lots of guys have got SSLs, Neves, etc on this forum and really know what they are talking about so if you wanna learn, then stop posting personal s**t and read more on this forum.

OK, I'll be helpful. The idea of 'hiring an engineer to master your drums sounds first'..... Why don't you just make your beats and hire a real engineer to mix them --- that's the only way you'll get it the way you like. Mixing mastered drums sounds--I've mixed some stuff like that from clueless so-called producers and it's all f**ked up -- too much highs, all maxed out with limiters... causes headroom problems and really don't mesh together well at all.

[De chromium cob]

You're only encouraging the troll by feeding it....

[toolstudio]

Hi Kataztraphy,

I'm really with MPCist. I mix a lot of R&B, HipHop stuff, and you can't really
work that way. I also suggest that you produce your stuff and let it mix
from an experienced guy. Yes,... I use SSL dynamics, on drum sound or drums
mults, but only when I think I need that, or when I don't use DBX160VU, Distressors,
Neve 32264,...... (insert 20 other dynamics here).

Mixing is pretty interactive, you can't use: "snaresslcompressedapieqd.wav" on
your track and expect to sound like Dre.

Altough I know what you would achieve, I only can tell you from my experience,
that I hate it when I open the project on the DAW for transfering the parts to
the Studer A800 and look at Bass Drums, Bass and Snare tracks, and seeing only
black boxes on the waveform in a way, where you quickly powering up the forat.
Dynamic and Punch isn't achieved with Limiting, I achive that mostly with eq'ing.
And that you can't do befor a mix and import an EQd drum sample. The eqing interact
with everything, the vocals, the main sample, kick, bass,.....

[Curve Dominant]

Originally Posted by kataztraphy

Sup guys, i kinda asked this question in another thread "but" i'd like to hear it from a real experienced engineer who mixes commercial hip-hop currently and who is up to date with all the new stuff going on in mainstream hip-hop nowadays. Someone who has used SSL's, Neve's...

Dizzee Rascal produced his record with a PlayStation.

Yo, it's all about the beat. Oh, and having a charismatic rhymer doesn't hurt, either.

SSL's, Neve's ... puleez. Good hip hop can be recorded with tin cans and waxed string. Just throw that sh&t down.

YMMV.

[Dangerous Dave]

*Fool proof operation - Even though there are 384 possible settings (not counting knob settings), it's almost impossible to get a bad sound. Keep all knobs on 5 or 6 (around middle) with ratio at 6:1 and you won't go wrong.

Just get yourself a couple of these and you can't go wrong, the official web site even says so...

Mind you watch out for the caveat of * Fool proof operation

Peace

DD

[shangoe]

maaan, this type of question like "what ssl on this, what drums, settings blablablabla...is so booring. it simply doesnt matter. i have kids in my town who make beats on a playstation 1 with preset sounds that can kick the shit out of your ass. use the fucckin samples you got use the fukkin dbx160a that is rottin for years in your rax have passion for the sounds and get the fukkin job done...

[kataztraphy]

...

[Kent]

Kataztraphy Threads FOREVAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!

[kataztraphy]

...

[steins]

Originally Posted by kataztraphy

Honestly i just came to realize that any really good hip-hop/ RnB engineer probabbly wouldnt have the time to post here and even know about this site for that matter. I mean does Dre post here? Mabye im asking for too much and getting my hopes up that a real experienced engineer would help me out. Mabye even an engineer who's mixed some hit hip-hop? RnB records. WHo the hell am i kidding? I should have expected these responses.

Yes you should. Glad you got THAT figured out. Thanks for participating in this forum. Good night.

BTW, have you tried doing a google on the subject. I you might want to check some of these links: Google search on hip hop recording forums

Stein Tore

[Travl]

Kataztraphy,

No one can really help you out with what you are asking. Even if Dre were here, Im sure he would tell you to go put your dues in and work it out for yourself. What you are asking is like me asking "how do I make my druming sound like Bonham and my guitar playing sound like Page"? There is a certain mojo to how different people work. Dre doesnt hold a patent on banging Hiphop beats, just rocks his own style. He created that style by working for YEARS on perfecting his techniques and sound. He didnt get the simple answer on Gearslutz of how to properly use an ssl or pre master samples or whatever. Dre also works with top notch session musicians and engineers. This definately goes into creating that sound as well. Ever heard of Scott Storch?? There is no answer anyone can give that will really end up helping you. It will really only end up working for you if you'r ready to try and figure it out by trail and error.

How old are you? I dont think this is a troll, just a child. Anytime you dont get your answer you result to name calling, but you ask the question again out of "Childish curiosity". But then the moment someone seems to step on your toes you are defensive. LOL

Gimmee back my ball (If I'm not good enough to play then get outta my yard ) LOLL


Poor baby. For all you know thrill, or me, or E, or anyone else here could be Dre. Just smart enough not to answer children.

(There should be an engineering test to get on gearslutz. Simple stuff like:

1. What type of microphone requires phantom power.
2. does a low pass filter cut out hi freq or lo?
3. What does a direct box do?
4. What's the difference between a passive direct box and an active one?
5. Why is it pointless to premaster drum samples (essay question)


kataz I was gonna give u some tips till u resulted in name calling of others. I'm only typing because I think you should be kept around and not banned for the days when engineers need a laugh. Funny thing is, You call names but at the end of the day, YOU ARE UNHAPPY with your poor little "B i t c h boy drum sounds" While most here are happy with the tones that they get.

PEACE

Hey Kataz, Since nobody wants to give you the truth (engineers are tight with their secrets outta fear that you might learn how to do it and not need them), I'm gonna give you the secrets

I heard that before he gets someone else to make a beat that he takes credit for, what Dre does to pre master is:

1. Buy a pack of MnM's and only eat the green ones
2 Drink a pot of warm Kool Aid
3 Smoke 2 salems menthol's with the filters torn off
4. Eat 2 pickled pig lips w/ lay's potatoe chips
5 order a poppa John's pizza with anchovies, pinapple, and sour cream
6. Ask everyone to leave the studio

7. LET THE F U CKIN ENGINEER DO HIS JOB

LOL Dre is not the Drum God LOL plenty of hip hop records sound good! in fact I'm getting tired of his strong mid range, loud hitting records with no real bottom because it was filtered to get it LOUDDDDDD

[kataztraphy]

...

[JTR]

Originally Posted by kataztraphy

So im not really a experiencd engineer but like SSL's and Neve's, ect.

i know somebody who is pretty good but he has really not too much experience with outboard gear


So i would like to rent some outboard gear for a week or two and let this guy do his thing and premix and master my drum hits.

K - you understand that you are saying something that most people here think is contradictory and illogical, right?

Why would you want to let someone who you yourself say doesn't know what they're doing "do his thing"?

WHAT thing?

the thing he doesn't know how to do???

See what I'm saying???

Doesn't make sense.

If you want people to help you, you need to make it easier for them: Otherwise, they'll only be frustrated, and brush you off

Some of your replies are getting very insulting, and immature - not a good way to solicit advice! (read NoSSL's comment)

I suggest you accept that most everyone who is good; from DRE on down to your local undiscovered kid genius have one thing in common
LOTS OF PRACTICE

So here's a list of stuff I've recently used for R'nB & Rap drums, perc
The list changes depending on what studio, & what gear they have, + my own

List Deleted Until Young Mr. K Learns Some Manners

K

I could continue, and 20 people here will also either add, agree, or disagree with my list:

You have to accept the fact that there is no magic bullet here
there is no "secret setting"
no hidden magic switch on the back

You can keep posting your question over and over,

but you're only going to keep getting the same reply

[JTR]

Originally Posted by kataztraphy

So untill a real hip-hop guy can help me out and not you little whinny white boy's then i dont care what yall say. A real hip-hop dude wouldnt answer me like that. Yall sound like a bunch of whinny rich white boy's who's mommy's and daddy's are rich and your a little rich bitch.

Can a real brotha help me out?

HEY - grow up

SSL is a brother, dumbass

and you just played the race card; not smart

there is no race in pro recording studios

just 2 types:

cool people

and a-holes

you've just showed your true colors...

[King Tubby]

Originally Posted by kataztraphy

So untill a real hip-hop guy can help me out and not you little whinny white boy's then i dont care what yall say. A real hip-hop dude wouldnt answer me like that. Yall sound like a bunch of whinny rich white boy's who's mommy's and daddy's are rich and your a little rich bitch.

Can a real brotha help me out?

Ayo kataztraphy! help is on the way from a real Hip Hop Engineer....Ive been in the game since the old B-Boy records (BDP)...

You cats the boy wants some help and yall treat em like this.....tell em the truth!


Almost all those records he is feeling are mixed by little whinny white boy's!

Humility can get you a long way in this biz...... SON!.... no diss just the truth

[Labs]

I love Katz thread


Gustav

Dre should actually read this. He'd probably wonder how he makes time for his wife with Kataz so busy on his Bozack LOL

Man I probably have more years in hip hop than you have in life. And just about all of the engineering I learned came from some cool ass white cats(I'm black fool). I'll tell you one thing I learned from Dave Pensado(one of the coolest white cats, since you made race a factor here LOL you probably wouldnt know who he is since you only listen to 50/Dre LOL) There are no excuses. man stop reading boards and spend time with engineers. watch, study dont buy anything get a ptools rig like everyone else and LEARN. sure pieces of gear make subtle differences, they add up to make beautiful differences, but at the end of the day an engineer can make a professional sounding record with most any tool available today. So much more is available to new comers today than years ago. stop being a bitch and be a man. IF you are not good it is your own fault. If your drums dont sound like records then they dont sound good!
(before I began rapping/engineering I boxed as a kid. Maybe you and I should find a ring and try our hand at that since you have such strong words.

Damn that was some time ago. "B-Boy records you just cant trust, making funky music is a must. I'm number one, one, one, one, one, (KRS 1)

THAT WAS HIP HOP in its best era

[kataztraphy]

...

[Labs]

Originally Posted by kataztraphy

no ssl yet, yo homie anytime you want to take this to a street level homie let me know homie. I dont care if you think you mike tyson dude. I've been in more street scraps than records you probabbly mixed and i been in tha box too for a while. Not that im proud of it son but you dont wanna go their wit me holmes. I've beat peoples that say their boxers, kung-fu masters, thai boxers, ect. Shit dont matter. Its REAL experience son and i got that. I've cooled down but i gots no problem gettin live again.
.

Kat.... You're fired man.

Gustav

[Umlaaat]

lol... katz..

you are (by far) the stupidest person i've had the displeasure to read.

i just got up and am checking my email when I browse over to this forum and here you are, talking like an idiot...

did you know some of the best engineers in hip hop are white? do you know who mixes the neptunes joints? a white dude. dres joints? a white dude. comes up with some of the illest shit? a white dude...

but seriously...

what you need to do before you get on this hip hop drum binge is to go back to school, mebbe finish *basic english 101*. (where, you too, can learn that there are certain times to use "their", other times to use "they're", and OTHER times to use "there"... - fer instance

There are certain ways to pull off insults that can do more damage to the other simply by the way you phrase it, certain things you can say that will get you a bit more respect from your peers.

I think ssl was right. katz sounds like a kid, (maybe in Boston?) with a lot of his folks money to rent some outboard, and as all adolescents have, his nuts in his head.. but thats ok.. we all grow out of it.

"B Town"? where the F is that? c'mon K... fess up.. thats short for "(Dre's) Bitch", aint it?


lol.. k... if you were in jail with dre, we know which side of the bed you'ld be on..

[kataztraphy]

Listen, all my apologies to all of you. My bad i let my temper get the best of me. Again my bad. Just dont insult me cause im a bit confused thats all.

[kataztraphy]

K for 1 i didnt say white boys cant mix. I said a few of you cats are going on and insulting me like some rich spoiled, stuck up white boys cause im fresh in the game. I got plenty of white homies. Learn how to read! So what, when a black comedian makes a joke about white boys they're racist too? Get fo real.

And i just wanted to say that while i was making my apologies to you guys this peice of shit bitch "Umlaaat" throw's his smart ass comments up in here so i have to respond.

Umlaaat, i wish i could see you in person foreal so i can knock some sence into you. You's a nerd dude. Stright nerd! " oh you need to go to english 101" lol! I know english you stupid terd. Just cause i type fast and im not used to spending my whole life on the internet forums dont mean i dont know how to spell.

And i aint in Boston im at Long Beach Cali. And i never grew up with both my parents and my moms aint rich. Im on my own you little queer.

Yeah and if i seen you i'd make you my Bitch homie. You can count on that one! I dont even want to talk about it here anymore cause i aint a internet thug. You know you only have the balls to talk like that on here. In person you would shut the **** up like a good little bitch or i'd make you my bitch.