Wagner U47 and Horch RM2J meeting in my studio :)

[ISedlacek]

I have an opportunity to host the venerable Wagner U47 in my studio for few days and to compare it to my Horch RM2J ... (thanks to Ranjeet from Saraswati Studios)



I quickly tried both on my vocal - very interesting :-)

[salomonander]

hey

as a horch user i'm very interested in your opinion. never had a chance to try the
wunder. keep us posted please

cheers
jakob

[blaugruen7]

very nice, ivo.

and now please give us the audio examples....

[KingUgly]

Posts like this are the internet equivalent of a hit and run.

[ISedlacek]

According to lot of previous feedbacks here, I believe Wagner U47 is the real original U47 personified (with "fresher" parts). My first impression (after trying with my voice suffering from a slight cold) says that (Wagner) U47 sounds very very velvet, smooth, a kind of "ready-made", I would say slightly "ironed" and compressed - but in a good way. Horch sounds a bit more "open" , raw, "organically grown", slightly less tamed, not wearing a decent evening suit. It is likely that after some smooth compression, Horch would come closer to Wagner.

U47 has a kind of gentle aristocratic beauty, but on the other hand it somehow unifies, "normalises" the voice, so the expression "spikes" are smoothly processed somehow, so the performance may lack a vivid natural spark at times ... Horch gives a bit more details and liveliness, but does not have that instant polishing sweetener/beautifier in process ...

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by KingUgly

Posts like this are the internet equivalent of a hit and run.

Seems you mean your own post ?

Originally Posted by salomonander

hey

as a horch user i'm very interested in your opinion. never had a chance to try the
wunder.

Neither had I . This is Wagner ))

[Schaap]

Great picture! Don't forget to put the Wagner in a M600 if you post samples

Henk

[ISedlacek]

I persuaded my wife to sing something too, to get some female voice in action ... After listening to all this again, I get an impression that U47 is overall a bit more velvet, gentle sounding, while Horch is more open, slightly bigger sounding with more HF content ... Both are nice, but if I have to choose, I would most probably grab Horch after some hesitation (as probably more universal sounding). And also - I could recognise the singers much more with Horch, U47 already sounded a bit coloured ...

(BUT - at the same time I have borrowed a pair Coles 4038 as well ... Although I thought that my ribbon stories are over (I sold my AEA R-88 recently, tried some Royers before, also Sigma ribbon etc.), I am quite surprised by these mics.

Even for vocals (my wife has a kind of deep rich voice - but she is a total amateur), I think for her voice I liked Coles the most (after a bit EQing): that natural (huge) fullness and sweetness was really nice, when switched to Horch or Wagner, immediately that tiny touch of condenser artificiality came out (but, of course, with more "presence") ... I tried them also on violin, stereo instrumental duo etc. - impressing and quite special... . OK, I better start a new thread about Coles

[GYang]

Thx for great comparison Ivo.
In relation to ribbons, I like them to, specially Coles.
Still, for rock-pop, usually I would pick LCD more often.

[t-hiho]

Ivo, did You check out the other Horch models, too?

[vitreouswindows]

I did this very same thing about 18 months ago with a Wunder CM7 and the Horch. My experiences were much like yours (Ivo), though I had two capsule/head assemblies for the Wunder (M7 and K47), and with the K47 I was able to get a 'perkier' sound from the Wunder. The Horch and the Wunder with the K47 both sounded wonderful, and I could go back and forth between them and prefer one over the other in a matter of seconds. Interesting experience. At one point I thought the Horch sounded 'wooly', then fifteen seconds later that 'wool' sounded 'lovely textured'. I preferred the Wunder, and I liked the option I had with the two capsule/head assemblies. The Horch had a 'blue light/red light' switch, and one of the settings didn't speak to me at all - sorry I can't recall which one. The performance of the Wunder with the M7 shocked me when I used it on my acoustic guitar - I thought it might be too dark, but it was one of the most three dimensional things I'd ever experienced with an acoustic guitar recording (the guitar was a large maple-bodied Zemaitis)

It was instructive for me in that my shifting perceptions played a much greater role in how I experienced each mic than I would have imagined. The human being is a complex creature.

P.S. - that Wunder and both capsules/head assemblies are for sale at Odyssey Pro Sound - www.odysseyprosound.com

[Jamz]

Ivo, I foresee a Wunder CM49 in one of your comparisons at some point
Hope all is well. Still enjoying the Monochord CD.

[bigos]

Glad to see that you found a singer to try out the mics with. Im interested in hearing a few samples next time we meet.
bigos
Saraswati Studios

[GYang]

Originally Posted by vitreouswindows

I The human being is a complex creature.

And these creatures hang on here on GS.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by t-hiho

Ivo, did You check out the other Horch models, too?

Not yet, but I would definitely like to ...

Originally Posted by vitreouswindows

It was instructive for me in that my shifting perceptions played a much greater role in how I experienced each mic than I would have imagined. The human being is a complex creature.

Sure ... Unless you compare Behringer C1 to U47, one often finds that the differences are quite subtle and delicate and may change depending on the angle you perceive them from. And also - after applying all those usual processings, placing vocals in mix, mixing, mastering etc., it would be probably hard to distinguish whether you used U47, Horch, Wunder etc. for recording that vocal in the end ) The only thing which would be very clear and obvious would be the singer, his voice, message and inner feeling ...

[GYang]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Not yet, but I would definitely like to ...



Sure ... Unless you compare Behringer C1 to U47, one often finds that the differences are quite subtle and delicate and may change depending on the angle you perceive them from. And also - after applying all those usual processings, placing vocals in mix, mixing, mastering etc., it would be probably hard to distinguish whether you used U47, Horch, Wunder etc. for recording that vocal in the end ) The only thing which would be very clear and obvious would be the singer, his voice, message and inner feeling ...

Content is what counts the most of course, but LCDs on vocals might help a lot to get the maximum. I've found it with many singers. Sometimes we start with obviously lesser mic for particular voice and when talent get used to it after couple of takes, switching to the appropriate one can push performance somehow. Not always thoughh.

[lorenzo]

Hi Ivo

Do you any samples to share ?

Thanks.

best regards

Lau

[gutr2]

I would LOVE to hear some samples, but nevertheless very grateful for the experiences shared.

[TapeOp]

That was like putting a carrot in front of a donkey.
At least let him chew it at the end of the journey!

Why don't you upload some samples?

[Gabriel Sousa]

thanks

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

I have an opportunity to host the venerable Wagner U47 in my studio for few days and to compare it to my Horch RM2J ... (thanks to Ranjeet from Saraswati Studios)



I quickly tried both on my vocal - very interesting :-)