Analog equivalent of L2 (aka. best analog limiter?)

[Lagerfeldt]

Aight, before you puke all over this thread take the time to answer my Q thanks :-)

I need a stereo analog peak limiter (nothing else) in this mastering chain: Gyratec X Vari Mu -> Custom SSL comp -> *Analog peak limiter* -> A bit of clipping the A/D

Basically I'm doing all the limiting at the A/D clipping stage right now (or just L3 in software, but I'm often preferring clipping).

Instead I'd like to have a high quality analog peak limiter so I can distribute the limiting duties to both the analog limiter and some to the A/D clipping, but avoiding the digital distortion at the A/D clipping stage.

So basically, what's the analog equivalent of the L2 (aka. what's the best analog limiter)?

[moeses]

maybe we can all beg Pendulum AUdio to release the brickwall limiter that was on the Quartet 2

[Brad Blackwood]

If you can find someone to modify a Dom II 720, you can get pretty close. And it sounds good, too, when the mods are done right...

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood

If you can find someone to modify a Dom II 720, you can get pretty close. And it sounds good, too, when the mods are done right...

Yes, I probably can. What kind of mods are you referring to?

In your experience, does the multiband functionality not "tamper" too much with the signal compared to say the L2?

[84K]

Analog equivalent of L2 (aka. best analog limiter?)

PENDULUM

[bobmaus]

You might check out Requisite Audio

Danny's Stereo L2M is a beautiful piece and worth checking out.

TapeOp Review by Larry DeVivo

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Yes, I probably can. What kind of mods are you referring to?

A good (and deep) tech will be able to pull a lot of the stuff out of the circuit while upgrading the audio path. It's not for the faint of heart...

In your experience, does the multiband functionality not "tamper" too much with the signal compared to say the L2?

Nah, it gets in and out very nicely. Seriously, I don't think anything else under the sun can do what this box can.

[Analog]

Honestly, I wouldn't use an analog peak limiter, just push the A/D as far as you can.. on a Lavry you pretty much don't even need a peak limiter.. on my Lynx II, I can go far enough that an additional 1.5db of peak limiting from either an L2 or preferabley the Timeworks limiter makes the master MORE then loud enough. What kind of A/D do you have?

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood

A good (and deep) tech will be able to pull a lot of the stuff out of the circuit while upgrading the audio path. It's not for the faint of heart....

Aha, is there a link regarding the mods? I would need to know (of course) exactly what you believe should be upgraded and "pulled out of the circuit"?

What is the sonic problems when you use it in factory condition?

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Analog

Honestly, I wouldn't use an analog peak limiter, just push the A/D as far as you can.. on a Lavry you pretty much don't even need a peak limiter.. on my Lynx II, I can go far enough that an additional 1.5db of peak limiting from either an L2 or preferabley the Timeworks limiter makes the master MORE then loud enough. What kind of A/D do you have?

I have an RME ADI-8 DS converter, which I'm quite happy with and clips nicely.
However I find that using the L2 on previously clipped material makes the L2 go all pumpy and weird in the top freqs even with 1-2dB of limiting. Merely clipping the A/D gives too much distortion (mind you I sometimes clip heavily), so I'd like some pre clipping analog limiting to distribute the limiting duties, like I said.

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Aha, is there a link regarding the mods? I would need to know (of course) exactly what you believe should be upgraded and "pulled out of the circuit"?

No, it's one of those highly secret mumbo-jumbo things. My tech wouldn't even tell me what he did, but it's apparantly quite extensive...

What is the sonic problems when you use it in factory condition?

Well, the audio path is not bad, but can be better - there's quite a bit you can do to tweak it out. Not just componants, but also taking stuff out of the circuit that's there for broadcast (which you obviously don't need). The tech who does my custom stuff is very good and was still buried in this for a while. I'm sure any really good tech could figure out what's going on - there's only so much one can do in a box like that to clean it up...

[edIT]

man i love it, the never ending "is there an analog alternative to the L2?" thread. almost as good as the "best 2 bus compressor thread.". both of which i have been guilty of starting at one point.

[edIT]

in response to the topic at hand people have told me the hardware L2 smokes the plugin. so if you are looking for the L2 plug to go to "11", i suggest starting with the box. but then again there have been mad threads saying there is no difference between the 2, one is just a plugin in box format with conveters. so go figure. as far as analog gear goes, i have been recommend the STC-8 by fletcher and others. though it is not quite as loud, crushing, and squashing as the L2, it is pretty good for gain riding and extremely smooth.

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally Posted by edIT

in response to the topic at hand people have told me the hardware L2 smokes the plugin.

Null tests have shown the 48 bit versions (TDM and hardware) to be identical. The DX version almost nulls, but the diff in 48 fixed and 32 float rears its head. I believe it's the same algorithm used throughout.

as far as analog gear goes, i have been recommend the STC-8 by fletcher and others. though it is not quite as loud, crushing, and squashing as the L2, it is pretty good for gain riding and extremely smooth.

Never heard a compressor that could come close to what the L2 does (good or bad), and the limiter in the STC-8 is a safety limiter, not good at hammering down levels ala L2, ime...

[Darius van H]

If you want over-loud, you should also try the Prismsound Overkillers....won't work on everything but could be a useful tool.

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Instead I'd like to have a high quality analog peak limiter so I can distribute the limiting duties to both the analog limiter and some to the A/D clipping, but avoiding the digital distortion at the A/D clipping stage.

Generally speaking, analog limiting will involve adding some kind of distortion........so it's a question of whether you prefer (analog limiting) distortion to the less punchy (but cleaner) digital look ahead variety......like i said, different situations will call for different aproaches.

[Analog]

The RME 8DS doesn't overdrive well.. you can really hear it distort easily. The Lynx you can push into the red and it just sounds louder, it the software meters weren't in the red I wouldn't even really know its clipping. The Lavry is even better, when you push into it, it simply sounds like the program material is louder, but when you look at meters you realize that you're really HOT!! I'd buy an another outboard A/D for your mastering like the Lavry or Benchmark or Mytek..

[Lagerfeldt]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll start off by checking out the Aphex 720 and taking it from there.

Could someone explain how the Prism Overkillers work? I've never heard about them before today..

[thethrillfactor]

[QUOTE=Lagerfeldt]Thanks for the suggestions. I'll start off by checking out the Aphex 720 and taking it from there.
QUOTE]

Jim Williams does a mod for the Aphex 720 Dominator 2.

[Darius van H]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Could someone explain how the Prism Overkillers work? I've never heard about them before today..

They attenuate the signal over a "knee" of about 4dB (the top of the knee being just under 0dBFS and brickwall)....Think of it as a half-way house between limiting and clipping......especially useful for chopping off transients from kick/snare percussion......

[Lagerfeldt]

@Analog, yes I would like a Lavry AD122-96MkII when I can afford one.. :-)

@thethrillfactor, much thanks, I just wrote him a message.

@Darius, ok but they're unadjustable, right? They look like a pair of plugs you simply patch your audio thru?

@Brad, is your Aphex modded? And what does the Aphex sound like in factory state?

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll start off by checking out the Aphex 720 and taking it from there.

The Dom II 720 (what I have) sounds OK out of the box, maybe a touch soft on the bottom. Didn't listen to it much after I got it as I knew it was getting modified to get all the other junk out of the chain. Sounds great now, very nice.

Could someone explain how the Prism Overkillers work? I've never heard about them before today..

They're just hard limiters made with back-to-back diodes. Not adjustable and generate more distortion (imo) than clipping. You can build them yourself for a few pennies...

[Darius van H]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

@Analog, yes I would like a Lavry AD122-96MkII when I can afford one.. :-)

@Darius, ok but they're unadjustable, right? They look like a pair of plugs you simply patch your audio thru?

They're not adjustable...it's a one trick pony.......if you don't have the knowledge or time to make them yourself contact Prismsound and they'll probably send you a pair to try. They have a sound which is quite different from clipping and could be very useful in the mix.

[guru007]

I may be late to the party, but as an alternative to the awesome Pendulum and Requisite units, you owe it to yourself to checkout the SLAM, particularly the Mastering version. It's a pretty feature-rich box that has additional tweaking options that blur or expand the boundaries of limiting & compression. Could be cool for your needs or a complete waste. YMMV.

guru007

[faeflora]

How do you all like softlimit for a few extra db?

[edIT]

if you are referring to Soft Limit on the Apogee products I wouldn't suggest it on a 2 Mix to get it louder. I bought one expecting to be able to get my tracks hotter and it is just the contrary when engaged it sounds like a compressor crapping out when the release is too fast. I pretty much never use softlimit. You can drive the Aogees pretty hot before they begin to noticeably distort. I think the only time I would ever use it is for maybe tracking a rhodes or a bass, where top end clarity doesn't matter as much, and overs will stick out like a sore thumb. With Soft Limit engaged you will notice a small loss in fidelity. It's not big, but it is there.

[Rick Sutton]

If you use Apogee soft limit check to see if the threshold is user adjustable. When I traded in my AD500 (which was set for a -4dBfs soft limit threshold) for a new AD1000 I was shocked to hear how different the soft limit was on the new unit. Basically unusable. The new unit was set at -6dBfs threshold and it is way too deep for that limiter. After testing, I found that -3dBfs to be the point at which the AD1000 soft limit is "musical" and handy to have available for some situations.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by moeses

maybe we can all beg Pendulum AUdio to release the brickwall limiter that was on the Quartet 2

No begging necessary... when it's ready to be released there will be a 4 channel version of that in a single RU box... however, it's also a "safety" [a.k.a "peak"] limiter... not an RMS limiter like the L2.

BTW, is there anyway to get you cocksuckers to stop using that piece of shit? I really like music, that thing just brings on listener fatigue which leads directly to "CD off/sports talk radio on" in my car... as always, YMMV.

[TheSweetener]

In the pre Finalizer and L1 times when loudness became sooo important, there also used to be the Hof Dynamic Master and the Behringer Combinator.
Never used any of these, but the Combinator is the only Behringer thing that is more expensive now than it was new!
The Dynamic Master can be found very cheap like the Dominator. Perhaps it's worth a try.

[dimaid]

hi,

did you ever hear or try the "gml 8900"?
http://www.massenburg.com/cgi-bin/ml/mod8900.html

[84K]

So Lag, you are trying to find an analog box that can do what a plugin does?? The idea of that baffles me coming from you.