Production approach...

[mwagener]

My next workshop is in June and we are going to record and mix "Back In Black" by AC/DC (which is my favorite rock track ever). The band is HYDROGYN

Now, since the singer is female (amazing singer) I don't have any problems with her having to match or being compared to Brain's voice, but what about the rest of the track? The song is going to end up on Hydrogyn's next album. So should I go for the closest possible match of the original sound or should we just go for our own sound?

Waddaya all think?

[TheReal7]

Originally Posted by mwagener

My next workshop is in June and we are going to record and mix "Back In Black" by AC/DC (which is my favorite rock track ever). The band is HYDROGYN

Now, since the singer is female (amazing singer) I don't have any problems with her having to match or being compared to Brain's voice, but what about the rest of the track? The song is going to end up on Hydrogyn's next album. So should I go for the closest possible match of the original sound or should we just go for our own sound?

Waddaya all think?

Well since it is a famale singer I would like to hear a new fresh approach to the song. Trying to match with a totally different singer would just sound karaoke to me but a new approach would be very intriguing. Great song choice BTW.

[PRuthenburg]

Hey Michael,
I don't think you should have the intent of matching the original;I say go for the
sound of the group.Anytime I hear a remake that seems to copy the original I always wonder what was of the point of it;why rerecord it if your not going to do something a little different.Granted,a chick singer will definitely make it different,but I think I'd like to hear more than the Black tracks we all know with a chick singer on top.
Back In Black is such a classic too so everyone has heard it.Its not like your redoing a lesser well known tune that isn't very familiar to people.
Hey it might be kind of cool to do a version with the band sound and if you have time see how close you can get with a copy version.

With your expertise at work I'd really be interested to see what the "new"Back In Black will sound like.I bet it'll be killer!

peace,
Pete Ruthenburg

[Jules]

I would suggest dont let the band put in a 'creative' minor chord or some other 'extreme melodic divergence' to make it their own... Structure - sure! , Top line melody adaption in spots - go for it , but new chords tutt people could get hurt!

[5down1up]

we dont need to invent the wheel again , do we

can hardly imagine to make that song work another way around ?!?!
it needs that beat & groove , thats all ac/dc ever was ( for me @ least )

BUM BAFF BUM BAFF BUM BAFF BUM BAFF BUM BAFF

maybe add an " ALPHORN " in the solo ?

r o c k N r o l l & greetings

[mwagener]

arrangement wise we're going to stick to the original, I think it's perect anyway. I was just thinking soundwise

[84K]

Stick to the Original... I will be more impressed with you matching it then anything else. Doing a weak job can really bust an artist (see Lenny Kravitz doing "American Women")... Besides, to sell the idea of remaking such a classic, it has got to "hit" right from the opening licks... No one will buy it if it isn't as strong... but, knowing your work, I know there is no need to worry in that department. thumbsup I believe "B-I-B" was recorded at Compass Point and mixed at Electric Lady...

If you want to use a Wizard Amp just like the brothers in AC/DC, let me know... I can send you one for the project. I have a few of them to spare!

ROCK ON!! AC stike DC RULES!!!

[HudHudson]

Originally Posted by 84K

If you want to use a Wizard Amp just like the brothers in AC/DC, let me know... I can send you one for the project. I have a few of them to spare!

ROCK ON!! AC stike DC RULES!!!

My Wizard-modded JMP 50 + '72 SG is the closest thing I've ever heard to the Voice of God, oh, no, that would be the voice of Angus!

Good luck with the project, Michael. I checked out the band's website and they rock...can't wait to hear their treatment of BIB.

[ctmartin]

Julie, Jeff, Jeff, Jason & Jerry? Really?
<just kidding>

I'd be really interested to hear how you treat it... awesome song!

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by mwagener

My next workshop is in June and we are going to record and mix "Back In Black" by AC/DC

sorry for asking...what is the purpose of the workshop, what is to be achived?
either way, I would try to create new music, even if it's with a cover.IMHO

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by joaquin

sorry for asking...what is the purpose of the workshop, what is to be achived?...

joaquin, info here: http://michaelwagener.com/html/wshops.html

[joaquin]

Thanks Mr wagener. Looking forward to participate some day

[lucey]

I would aim for the original.

You wont copy it ...and the difference will be the unique signature of the cover.

[C.Lambrechts]

own sound ... definately own sound .... covers work best imho if you give it your own sound. The arrangement can be the same. If it's good it's good .... period. But the sound should be your own sound ... imvho of course.

[XHipHop]

The version of "ironman" by the Cardigans is amazing, by the way. A totally different take on that song. Maybe use that for inspiration (or maybe just for the intro/first verse and then when you hit the chorus, it rocks like the real one).

[lucey]

Originally Posted by djui5

Just please don't let them change the arrangement or vibe of the song..it would be really easy to f*** up that song I'd imagine.

I agree ... and that's why i said "copy"

Because you cannot copy the sound of the original even if you try, and the result will be your take by default.

OTOH anything too clever will be a disaster.



The mastering, for one point will surely be different than either Jensens early version that's bright and dynamic, or Marinos recent version thats loud and dark and doesnt move much air.

So in that sense, it will be sonically different no matter what you aim for ... then there is the digital vs. analog basic tracks, and the fact that they aren't Malcom or Angus in fingers, amps, pickups or volume...

Even IF you aim to copy there are lots of personal touches and variety built right in... just dont get too caught up on a perfect copy.




Michael if you want to reference some other sounds to the tune than the 2 CD versions out there let me know, I remaster Back in Black, from both versions, in my free time. Every 6 months or a year... I know ... it's crazy.

[84K]

Originally Posted by lucey

I would aim for the original.

You wont copy it ...and the difference will be the unique signature of the cover.

Well said Brian... Summed up nicely.

P.S. I know Brian Lucey does a F'in Amazing job with mastering AC/DC rock material...

[Dave Martin]

Don't try to cop the sounds - when you aim at that, it quits being music and becomes typing. Do what you will, but try and BEAT the energy of the original.

[trock]

Wow

great song! ac/dc was the band for me, randy rhoads the guitarist and john Denver the songwriter...........hmmmmmm

Mutt was doing his thing with them for the second time, Bon was gone, the riffs and feel of that album are classic, not to mention Brian really had his voice then, up till 85 or so he had THEY best voice in rock.

So i have also heard rappers say they were influenced by that song as being one of the first rap songs. before aerosmoth and Run DMC

i always thought ac/dc would sound killer with some funkier kick in the drums, Phil was a good guy and all and good for what they wanted but he never really did much. just sat in the groove.

I would make the drums a little funkier maybe and just see what happens.

interesting to hear a female sing it. at first you don't realize how high brian is singing (and screaming) so i think a good female singer could capture this better.

although i heard a female singer try and scream "have a drink on me" once in a local band and it scared me pretty badly.

man, the guitars are perfect, no effects,just cranked for some natural distortion, another thing is how clean the guitars really are in ac/dc that beat up old gretsch, the SG, doesn't get much simpler

in the 80's i used to wish angus would "fly" like thothers and i would think his solo's were rather lame, but now i listen and appreciate how great they were/are i wouldn't change the lead, fiddle a little ofr your guys own playing style but keep the melody and parts.

not to switch the topic here but has anyone else seen the Celine Dion version of "you shook me all night long" ?? angus and malcolm always said "we are the ugly little men in the band, not a lot of women like us"

how wrong they were.

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by djui5

Just please don't let them change the arrangement or vibe of the song..it would be really easy to f*** up that song I'd imagine.

I say, let them explore. Have a litle more faith in the musicians. From arrangement, cames the most precious sonic distribution at the time of Mix. I do not know if production concepts are involved in the procces of the workshop, but I find those to be most valuable when shaping sound.
AC stike DC aproach to the harmonic progression at hand, is, undoubtable perfect in it's own right, so, I say, let's be creative from the very source.

[SiliconAudioLab]

Absolutely NOT the original feel. I LOVE Angus, Malcolm, Phil, Brian, & Cliff to death, but it wouldn't be fair.

They are who THEY are and Hydrogyn is who HYDROGYN is.

This ones gonna be ALL up to YOU (& those mighty R-100's) Michael!

I'd suggest some fat (HipRapProdigyTwistedFireStarter) bass drum thing, SINCE the beat in Back to Black is slow enough for a Booooooooooof Da da da Boooooooooooooof Da da Doooooomffffff feel.

Better get ready with that (those) new bags o' tricks before the band gets there. Then add the MWagner signature and THIS time it can be a HUGE producer signature (not that your other stuff hasn't been ), but THIS time:

KABAM!!!!!!

Great topic!

[Dave Martin]

Originally Posted by SiliconAudioLab

mighty R-100's) Michael!

I'd suggest some fat (HipRapProdigyTwistedFire Starter) bass drum thing, SINCE the beat in Back to Black is slow enough for a Booooooooooof Da da da Boooooooooooooof Da da Doooooomffffff feel.

Yuck!

[SiliconAudioLab]

Yep I know what you mean Dave, and I'm NOOOO RAP fan, but I hear a looooooooooong TR808 there underneath (in my mind) with the BD and it's GOTTA be waaaaaaaay different, else it'll be another cover song (even WITH a female singer).

[alphajerk]

Originally Posted by trock

i always thought ac/dc would sound killer with some funkier kick in the drums, Phil was a good guy and all and good for what they wanted but he never really did much. just sat in the groove..

um, thats kinda why AC/DC was AC/DC.... funky drums over it? that would sound so cheesy. everybody talks about AC/DC's guitars but i think the drums were what made their sound more.

[SiliconAudioLab]

Hey Aerosmith did Walk this Way with Run DMC - gotta REALLY push the envelope thes days.

Please video tape it when you tell Jerry L. about this crazyness - I am being serious about it all but THAT part will be tricky.

[Dave Martin]

Originally Posted by SiliconAudioLab

Hey Aerosmith did Walk this Way with Run DMC - gotta REALLY push the envelope thes days.

And how is repeating something that was done 15 or 20 years ago (with Aerosmith and Run DMC) 'pushing the envelope? if you REALLY wanted to push the envelope, you'd simply have a group of musucians rocking their collective asses off while recording a great song. That's certainly not done much these days...

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Dave Martin

Do what you will, but try and BEAT the energy of the original.

Good Luck with that.

I would definitely not choose this song.

It's sooo damn perfect. There's only one way to go from there. DOWN.

Have fun though.

I would do Kajagoogoo's "Too Shy".

[De chromium cob]

Originally Posted by Produceher

It's sooo damn perfect. There's only one way to go from there. DOWN.

Oh, I dont know about that, I love the Hayseed Dixie version.... I say switch it up a bit. Get creative.

[chrisgraff]

Originally Posted by trock

i always thought ac/dc would sound killer with some funkier kick in the drums, Phil was a good guy and all and good for what they wanted but he never really did much. just sat in the groove.

FWIW.....Mutt Lange has been quoted as saying that after he worked with AC/DC, he made every other drummer use a click track.

[maxim]

i would try and match the spirit, not the sound

although, putting any pedals between gtr and amp would be a sin