Mixing, Gift or skill/ nature or nurture? (Thrillfactor n others)

Here is a quote from my post in the distressor thread. I figured the best thing that could come from that thread was a side discussion on a better topic

quote:
Thrillfactor: I think its a combo gift/skill. (We have had this discussion for what seems like years, but I think I am better at expressing my view now)
It's Just like walking/running. Everyone can learn to walk/run but some are born to become worldclass runners.

Perhaps we are all born with the gift but few are willing to work to develop the gift. I'll give you a scenario:

A great Pianist finishes her set and a woman walks up and says "I wish I could play like u, U play beautifully"
The pianist responds "you can be as good or better than me. All I did was practice 8 hours per day for the last 20 years. If you are not willing to put in that degree of effort then you dont really wish you could play as well as I do"

On a side note I'm glad I started as a teenager/child. Adults are quicker to give up than children. The hardest thing we learned in life was how to walk. Think about it until you could do it, YOU literally fell on your ass. If we had to learn to walk as adults instead of as children, there would be alot of people who would give up and continue to crawl. LOL we could make a killing selling kneepads and gloves

So what do you guys think is mixing nurture or nature? *

[zimv20]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

So what do you guys think is mixing nurture or nature? *

as is academia, the answer is always, "it's a bit of both."

i do think that some are born more musical than others. but to the point of engineering and/or producing, i believe a decent chunk of that is knowing what you want (i.e. developing your creative voice). and that is something which i believe can be developed.

and then there's all that practice...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

So what do you guys think is mixing nurture or nature? *

Its a little bit of both with some luck/opportunity mixed in.

I feel anyone with the right education, practice and mentorship can learn to engineer.

But not everyone will be considered "great" the "best" or "set apart".

I do feel the "gift"is overlooked.

Maybe its a subconscious thing where it maybe hard to swallow.

Maybe its self denial.

No one wants to be told that hey no matter how hard you try you will be good, but not necessarily great or the best because someone else just has a little edge that you don't.

Some engineers are just happy if they are busy,working and able to pay the bills.

Some guys just do it for the love,more as a hobby and no other intentions.

And some guys just want to be the best,the top in their field.

Everyone has their own intentions.

[alphajerk]

the great and best often arent whats "popular"

[the1Hub]

I think the best engineers have a bit of both in them.

two of the best engineers i know are on either end of the spectrum. one learned everything he could and applied himself to his fullest. he is now a mastering engineer thats working at the highist levels. the other when i first met him i had to tell him what the knobs on a compressor did. but he had those golden ears and loads of creativity. he has mixed stuff that iam sure most slutz (at least here in th US have herd) but by far his best stuff is what he has done at home. he allways keeps me inspired to try something new. And he never lets me forget how important capturing a great perfromance is.

[doug_hti]

I agree a bit along the lines with alpha...
in LA, some of the "best" guys getting good work (beyond being good at what they do) are really good cheerleaders..........for themselves......I've seen unbelievable self promotion, but um they are working....so

I may not be qualified to have an opinion on this, but I sure do have one....

I really think mixing is a lot like songwriting, in that you HAVE to have a natural talent to rise above others, but you also have to practice, practice, practice, practice to ever even figure out to what extent your talent is and that probably happens for the rest of ones life.

A person with desire and passion putting in the hours will generally supercede a talented person that hasn't....it goes for artists, musicians, songwriters, engineers, mixers....and beyond

[Jack the Bear]

I also agree that there is a bit of both to make one "great". Having said that a good manager also seems to help and circumstances which generate a perception also help...like having the #1 album on the Billboard Top 100 etc.

Everything starts with intention and desire. After that it will be people's judgement based on their criteria that'll make you "great".

Cheers,

[enharmonic]

I think it's like anything else in life that is worth doing. There's skill, and then there's talent that goes beyond skill. In the pianist parable...you could become skilled enough to read the music and play the piece without being talented enough to see the music in your head, and able enough to deconstruct it and take it somewhere else. I feel the same way about mixing. You can become good with skill alone, but you can't become great without talent. Once you reach the point where you can do anything with your skills without a second thought, you have reached the first stage of talent. That's when you REALLY start working hard to get better

Just my .02

[418]

Originally Posted by alphajerk

the great and best often arent whats "popular"

I gotta say, (no offense) usually I disagree with your posts, alpha, but this is a brilliant one.

Maybe we need to start another "what makes an engineer great?" thread...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by alphajerk

the great and best often arent whats "popular"

Yeah but this is one business where the talent can't really hide.

If you are great or the best you will be found out sooner or later.

The music business is a lot about who you know.

To break the inner circle there must be some modicum of exceptional talent that is reliable or delivered over and over.

Now i am not speaking about artists,writers or producers.

I am speaking about engineering.

Now adays the engineering field is broken up in the 3 fields.

Tracking,mixing and mastering.

So you could be considered the best at one of the three, but its rare to be great at all of the 3.

Mixing is a different form of engineering.

You need to be able to use both sides of the brain at the same time and do it well.

You need a photographic sound memory,you need to make tatsteful decisions for both the producers and artists.

Sometimes you have to be able to fix people's messes.

And on top of this you have to do in one try.

Its not an easy field to work in at times because of the intense pressure and scrutiny.

Its not for everyone.

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Its not an easy field to work in at times because of the intense pressure and scrutiny.

Its not for everyone.

No, it is not.

Being mentally challanged enough to think that repeatedly swallowing and regurgitating the gigantic bundles of hogwash that accompany a routine professional intersection with the craft, is funny, and even fun, is also tremendously helpful.... IMHO.

SM.

[joaquin]

I think that a great AE comes from the communion with great musicians. Famous AEs worked in famous albums. None the less, like Alphajerk said popular and genius not always walk together...and I think that it's a mixture of both..."inspiration and perspiration".

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by alphajerk

the great and best often arent whats "popular"

i'm yet to find I better sound recording than David Guilmors "in concert DVD"

to me Guilmor is a very popular guy, and are the people who record/mix his stuff.

I've also found Tom Petty's "wildflowers" as one of the greatest sounding CD's ever.

And well.. Bob Clearmountain mix of "blue moon swamp" by john fogerty. Is another one on my top list.

All this time in GS.com hearing the "un-popular" people post mixes on the mp3 secction, i found that they are years and years away from achieving that sonic level.. . of the albums i mentioned above. So I agree with thrillfactor when he says, that the ones who are really great and above , sooner or later become popular.

And when it comes to songwriting same thing. No one since the Beatles has achived that level of songwriting. NO ONE. Alot of people blame mtv, media, record companies.. blablabla.. but the true fact is that no one these days write songs like they did. I would be very very surprised if there are people in the underground world who write better songs, or make better sounding records than the ones i mentioned. I really doubt it.

Let me define a great song : (to me) a great song is one who is respected and loved by the experterts and loved and enjoyed by the regular joe who cant ring a doorbell right. NO ONE, to me did it better than the Beatles.

I think it's kind of weird when people mistake popularity with greatness because to me nothing has exceeded the quality of the most popular. And this goes to equipment manufacturers as well. The greatest gear builders eventually became popular. The music business is very small.