Professional Drum Samples for RnB & HipHop

[nikthegrik]

Waddup Guys,

i've used a lot of great Sample CD's such as Modernbeats, Big Fish Audio and other and i recognized that beats gettin' better and sound is fresher. But listening to professionals, for instance Scott Storch, Timbaland, Kanye West and Darkchild is frustrating. I know that i will never sound like professionals but i wanna get as close as possible.

Apart from the fact, that it's a skillZ and gear thing, what could i do better.

My question is: Where do Timbaland and others get their samples from? Do they use commercial Sample CD's like Big Fish, or is it just custom made Kick and Snaredrums. What sounds do they use for their layered Drumsounds.
I'm looking for the BEST! Drum Sample CD's for producing RnB and HipHop, or am I quite right with the commercial ones?

Does anybody know some "musthave" CD's which every RnB Producer gotta have in his Sample Library?

As far as i can judge the Demo Sounds, i would buy those:

Big Fish – Black Butta 3
Big Fish – Black Butta 4
Big Fish – Complete RnB - Apple Loops Library
Big Fish – Ghetto Grooves Vol. 1
Big Fish – Ghetto Grooves Vol. 2
Big Fish – Cut'n It Up 3
Big Fish – Loopalicious RnB
Big Fish – Neo Soul- The new sound of Hip Hop and R&B

Any opinions?

Thx

Cya, Nik

[Big 3rd]

Whaz up man. Look, I don't know, personally, what the top names in hip hop and R&B use, as far as their snares and kicks go. Now that's my straight answer to your question, but I am going to make this suggestion to you.

As you know or should know, there is a big lack of originality in the rap and r&b industry, at least for those that made it to the "mainstream" level. This void is partially because when one artist or producer becomes the "hot item," everything must all of a sudden follow suit. The mix, the rap or singing style or sound, and yes even the choice of instruments, such as the snares and kicks and how they are used, are all fair game for cookie cutting (heaven forbid that there be enough room in the top ten for all different sounding artists).

Now I say that to say this to you. ..........................................WHY DO YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE INSTRUMENTAL CHOICES OF TIMBALAND, KANYE WEST, AND ETC? I can understand trying to find out what equipment they are using to get a curtain punch, attack, loudness, or any other thing that can effect the PROCESSING of the sound and its quality. But you are trying to barrow their ARTISTICAL VISION. Understand, this is THY biggest problem with the industry right now. Everybody wants to sound like joe shmoe instead of trying to make their own artistical footprint in the game. If Kanye West wanted to know what sounds Dr Dre was using, there would be no Kanye West, there would be another Dre wannabe that didnt make it.

Be confident in your own sound, your own style, the signatures that you make in YOUR music.

Remember this: They've made it already (off their signatures). It is our turn now.
So get off this forum, tighten the screws, and make them believe
in YOUR MUSIC.

[Paul David]

My perosnal favorites were some of the soundscan CD's. then I noticed something... Some of the sounds were cut from some very popular CD's. Now I cut straight to the chase and I'm constantly on the lookout for clean drum hits. I just spent a few hours last night cutting up songs from TP-2, Musiq's latest CD, and D'angelo's voodoo. From these three CD's I got about 30 side sticks, a couple snares, ten kicks, and other cool stuff to throw into the DR-008 and mutilate in various irresponisible and nonmusical ways. I now have a catalog of thousands of samples to choose from often using 3 or more samples for each sound with varying degrees of pitch shift, filters, amp decays and whatnot. So import your CD's into pro tools (or whatever you're using) and get to chopping.

I also have drummers give me every drum in every different way possible whenever they come over for a session... Timbaland and Dre use a lot of session drummers to come up with the sounds you hear.

Peace, Paul

[Igotsoul4u]

Watch for a new website in the next few months that should solve all your problems. Can't say anymore. As far as some knockin drum sounds, check out all the police records.

[Darius van H]

Don't forget that most of these tracks are being mixed by guys with 20+ years of experience........check out how much the sound of rap/rnb has improved since the early 90's till now....it didn't just happen overnight....having great sounds is just part of the equation......it's how they're blended and combined in the mix that puts that extra bump in.......having quality full range monitors (and a decent room) will make a world of difference...+ experience.

[ttauri]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

check out how much the sound of rap/rnb has improved since the early 90's till now....

Peece,
T. Tauri

[The MPCist]

Producers I've worked with usually layer their kiks/snars to get the sound right.

Combine 808 kiks (for low end), and compressedlikeHell kik sounds for the upper parts... dump them into the MPC and start tweaking with the filters... You'll find em

By the way, MPC is pretty important. I get sounds from it that's impossible otherplaces... also, when I listen to those sample CDs, they sound like what comes out of my MPC (as is) with a few synth licks here and there... I wouldn't waste my money on that.

Take the advice of the above posters too... Sample all kinds of kik/snrs etc... get a good compressor and work with that.

You'll have an endless supply....

[Renie]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

By the way, MPC is pretty important. I get sounds from it that's impossible otherplaces...

Michael

In what way do you mean? the sound itself or the sequencing?

What aspect(s) of the MPC gives this unique sound? the convertors? the filters? the quantizing? the UI?

thanks

Rene

[kataztraphy]

All i know is that i have a MPC3000 and when i load up my drums in it they sound PHAT. You can definetly tell there is some phatness going on. You should use an MPC 3000 because its converters are amazing and the sequencer is rock solid. The best MPC ever made IMO.

Over the years i have had an MPC60II, 3k and a 2k. They all have that MPC thing to them. I dont know if I'd wanna sequence without em. Maybe its because I've used them for so long. I have heard great things about the roland machine. And I use to think the R8 was the most programmable machine groove wise ever. If someone would combine that with an MPC it would be heaven. either that or an MPC with URS EQs and McDSP compressors.

[George Necola]

It's a diffrence between how a samplebase sounds, and what you get the hell out of it.. your mixing skillz, equipment and your ears are very important!

It's not your genre, but I've heard the last "the prodigy"-album was made in Reason.. with STANDART SOUNDBANKS.. well.. unbelivable to mee.. a friend told me, what they were doing "but not about the magic.. :(" and I wan't tell you that, because you want belive it..

So my mainpoint:
One sample may sound terrible, but the whole bunch may sound good!

[Renie]

i believe the last Prodigy album was composed in Reason then mixed and mastered extensively (and expensively!) elsewhere..

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by Renie

i believe the last Prodigy album was composed in Reason then mixed and mastered extensively (and expensively!) elsewhere..

this is true!

they couldnt turn shit into gold this time!

;p

[Sirocco]

I am also frustrated hearing commercial samples....but what you are forgetting is that.....these sounds arent straight off the producers hands! There are stages after the producer has done his tracks. He gets someone to mix the levels....he sends it to the mastering engineer.....he most likely has a database of noise profile to eliminate noise in the samples from vinyl artifacts to hums, to anything. Then the mastering engineer only uses there z systems and system 6000 goodnesses, which are very cheap, yeah? to achieve the sound a typical up-and-coming producer, would think came right out of the mpc. don't be fooled! i was for some time. listen to some mixtapes, they are usually unmastered....and yes, they sound shit!

SOLUTION: Make it a craft and do your own bassdrums. Go find 5 drums which have respectable features for a certain frequency range...filter that range out..so it comprises the whole spectrum.. If you happen to find a kick with a clean, uncrackled, unartifacted (sp?ahah) high end..use that. Mix these 5 levels until you get the kick you want. Keep subisituting sounds, and you will get there. Using a distressor wouldn't hurt, but yeah, those are cheap too!!

SAMPLECDS ARE HORRIBLE. The sounds are dirty, outdated, and cheap. I tell you this from my experiences with them. Sure, you can use them as template holders, but you will want to add your own imprint to your track sometime, and the sample cds won't cut it anymore...

These are just my opinions of course, and I am a nobody. Your mileage may vary..

[neve1073]

MPCs definitely have a sound to my ears. You can do things with those filters that you can't quite do elsewhere.

Regarding your question, you know I've heard of tbig name hiphop producers locking themselves up in the studio for weeks on end just to get the right kick sound for an album. That's not the kind of music I do, but I would guess it'd be nice to have access to some nice drum kits to record drum hits in a nice studio. Then it's blending and tweaking and layering. The kind of thing that would be really fun with a big bag of weed and a lockout at a nice studio.

This may be interesting to you:

http://www.drumdrops.com/products.jsp

[Darius van H]

Originally Posted by ttauri

Peece,
T. Tauri

tt, i was really talking about the technical skills of the engineers to communicate thru various mediums (radio, CD, vinyl, in clubs) to the audience...not really about the style or vibe of the music..whether you like old or new rap is a question of taste......maybe this distinction is too subtle....i dunno.....i think it's important for an engineer to be able to seperate out (in his or her mind) between music they like and music they think is technically accomplished.....and to be aware of how one impacts on the other.

[defjamm]

Originally Posted by nikthegrik

Waddup Guys,

i've used a lot of great Sample CD's such as Modernbeats, Big Fish Audio and other and i recognized that beats gettin' better and sound is fresher. But listening to professionals, for instance Scott Storch, Timbaland, Kanye West and Darkchild is frustrating. I know that i will never sound like professionals but i wanna get as close as possible.

you're listening to already mixed and mastered stuff by pros. producer a pro, the mixing-guy a pro, the mastering-guy a pro. all comes together.

Originally Posted by nikthegrik

Big Fish – Black Butta 3
Big Fish – Black Butta 4
Big Fish – Complete RnB - Apple Loops Library
Big Fish – Ghetto Grooves Vol. 1
Big Fish – Ghetto Grooves Vol. 2
Big Fish – Cut'n It Up 3
Big Fish – Loopalicious RnB
Big Fish – Neo Soul- The new sound of Hip Hop and R&B

they sound all like pre-made construction-loop-cds, which i hate. i don't feel like a producer usin them, the guys who made the loops are the producers. get some nice multi-sampled instruments or a rompler and make your own melodies, that's what i do(or if you have connections to musicians let them play your melodys, but then you need a nice room and a good recording-chain). if you want to use melody-loops dig them from vinyls or other recordings, to me if feels kind of cheesy to use melodys from pre-made construction-cds.

i think the best advice is to try and practice 95%, and 5% readin here

regarding drums: my favs for rap are the emagic hiphop cd drums(but they are to dirrty for rnb imo) and the modernbeats-samples. the rest is producing/programming skills, mixing-skills and mastering-skills. nice monitors, nice room and recording-chain would help too. what you hear on releases is like a puzzle put together, like a picture thats ready. but every color was important to get that picture.

[Offender]

bare in mind...alot of people on this forum will not divolge the names of their sources. I havent heard of a 'standard sample CD that all producers must have'. I mainly sample a kick and a snare from the same record. I'm sure I read somewhere that some of the BIG producers in the game admitted sampling a Dr Dre Kick or two.

If you still wanna buy a sample CD, I rekkon you should pay about $650 for a really good one.

Man for $650 I'll personally make you a cd with some of the best sounds in rap music.


I never understand it when people talk about how they like the MPC filters. the 4k is the only one with an extensive filter set. All of my others only had a filter for taking out hi end. Honestly I have often wished for a filter that would do the opposite. But thats just one opinion

[Sirocco]

most that use the mpc dont know any better, "most"

they think its cool to have one and they will become superproducer.

[kataztraphy]

no ssl yet, you wanna sell me some of your personal drum samples? Im always looking for those club claps and deep clean kicks and stuff for commercial hip-hop.

[moeses]

i got a chance to mess with BFD, and i layed those natural drum sounds with my synth sounds, and i was amazed at how much hit that had...

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

check out how much the sound of rap/rnb has improved since the early 90's till now.

It has?

Darius - I saw your reply to: - but I couldn't resist anyway. Please don't get mad. I do agree with your follow up.

Anyway, Nik - dude listen; launch your career and pick a studio that has a great big ol' wooden room and can engineer up some mics and a good drum set.

Cruise the forum here for drum micing setup tips and which mics to choose. Oh, yeah reminds me - I learned a great tip this week - check this link out for how to get the phat-assed bass drum: http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/...RODUCT,00.html

It's actually a speaker but reversed (to act as a mic) to pick up da big air!!

Anyway, put head phones on after engineer sets up a basic mic setup - grab a drummer - make sure he's willing to hit individual drums for EVER - listen with headphone & tell the engineer once you hear "the sh-i-t" to FREEZE!

Once all the drums are set record as many hits & beats as time & $ will allow.

You will then become a super producer because of your tricks! No joke! It's funny how a great room, a great engineer and a guy such as yourself to go in and take the "producers risk" always becomes the sh-i-t!!

Don't take my word for it. Just go for it. Sell your samples then too - screw ALL the bullsht sample makers (of which I am one - ol' Emu guy)! fuuck

[Sirocco]

i use my own drums ive created and use the waves bundle to coat them and remove the noise.. want to hear?

http://www.djandrewparsons.com/drums.wav

http://www.djandrewparsons.com/conquest.ogg

...awesome drums can be created, it just takes time!

and no ssl yet - hit me up with a demo of ur drums, im always looking for the good shit to layer boy!

[jaye b]

personally i don't care where my drumsounds come from. i layer, filter, compress, EQ anyway.
Think taking complete drumloops from sample cd's is lame. single hits?
who cares..

i think in today's hiphop sound the mix is very important, theres some very sophisticated stuff going on the engineering front.

todays hiphop & r&b benefits greatly from heavily experienced guys on the mix front.
listen to Dave Pensados early Bell Biv Devoe work and stuff he does now.

[neve1073]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

Man for $650 I'll personally make you a cd with some of the best sounds in rap music.


I never understand it when people talk about how they like the MPC filters. the 4k is the only one with an extensive filter set. All of my others only had a filter for taking out hi end. Honestly I have often wished for a filter that would do the opposite. But thats just one opinion

The MPC filters are pretty cheesy, but can be cool in a kind of ****edup way. Having said that, I hardly ever use the MPC I have--an older one..I think the MPC 2000xl. I don't work much with "samplers" and I have lots of outboard and plugin options that I'd probably use instead of the MPC filters anyway. But for certain moments I think the MPC, and its filters, could be useful. It's a creative & portable little toy. Anyway, that's why I've kept mine.

I consider MPCs to be essential to how I work. I just dont get what people find special about the filters. It only filters out the hi end. On mults I usually need the opposite.

To me its the easiest most reliable way to sequence in the world. I wish the 1k was 24bit, I'd be all over it. Until then it will be 2/3k's with apogee converters via spdif for me

[Exmun]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

I consider MPCs to be essential to how I work. I just dont get what people find special about the filters. It only filters out the hi end. On mults I usually need the opposite.

To me its the easiest most reliable way to sequence in the world. I wish the 1k was 24bit, I'd be all over it. Until then it will be 2/3k's with apogee converters via spdif for me

Is the 16 bit issue the main and major difference between the 1k and the others? I'm thinking of picking up an MPC and can't really get beyond the marketing hype to determine the essential differences in those machines.

If I was starting from scratch I'd say get a used 2k. It will give you good quality sequencer for the cheapest. There's not a huge difference between all of them. The 4k is 24bit while the 1,2,3k are all 16 bit and the MPC60's are 12bit.

Since the 1k was made recently and is a 16bit unit. Its probably a sign that Akai has a plan for a second one after they sell some of the 16bit unit. The sole purpose of having a 24bit unit would be transfering sounds from a DAW for me.

DONT
get hung up on the bit rate. Just about all drum libraries are 16bit anyway and if you snatch samples from CDs, they will be 16 bit anyway

[rjx]

I think sample cd's are cool, some of them. But to me sample cd's are like presets on a synth or drum machine - you gotta tweak it around and turn it into something new.

How many kids will get a certain sample cd? And how many of them will sample a loop or hit and use it as it was on the cd? Its just like using presets on a synth, everyone has the same thing, so you gotta warp it around into something a little different, or completely different.

THERE ARE NO RULES! THERE ARE NO SET WAYS!

The big names use 808's, 909's, xbase's, machinedrum's, ethnic drum's, acoustic, etc. Some don't even use drum sounds. Just sounds in general that are tweaked beyond recognition. Layer the sample, shop it up, re arrange it, chop it up in 3rds and put the beginning at the end - the middle in the front - and the front in the middle etc. Pitch shift it, eq it, compress it to death and squash it. Layer a chorus with a phaser with other stuff. Run samples thru an input on a certain synth. Etc, Etc, Etc

Speaking of synth's, you can make hard and crazy beats tweaking the parameters on an old analog like a Juno 106, or a new access virus. etc.

Layer a traditional sample, with a non traditional sample, etc. Go outside with a good recorder and record everyday sounds. Find objects and bang them around while recording. Sample shit off a crummy radio, or tv, etc.

You might have sounds you might never want to use, but imo you're sound palette can never be to big. Another good tip would be to purposely try a combination that you feel wouldn't work. Then tweak from there.

Geez, there are hundreds of things I didn't even mention. Infinity possibilities.

The best way to go somewhere new, is not knowing where you are going.