Focusrite Red 1 and DBX 166XL

[cachemira]

Hi,

A client wants to use my Focusrite RED 1 Pres with his DBX 166XL.

The Focusrite doesn´t have insert points, so which could be the best way to do it?

[beechstudio]

I'd try to talk him/her out of using the 166xl. Do you really need dynamic processing at the tracking stage? Maybe if they absolutely want the sound, you could insert it on mixdown. I don't think I would commit it to track on the way in though. Just my opinion...... Good luck cachemira!

[cachemira]

I agree 100 % with you, but he is the client...

[hociman]

Originally Posted by cachemira

Hi,

A client wants to use my Focusrite RED 1 Pres

If you have better preamps, use them. IMO, the Red 1 is a NFG POS that only looks good in the rack and has the Focusrite name on it. If you have several preamps and the client is choosing those, do yourself a favor and convince the client otherwise.

[toque-eh!]

jonathon, why is your opinion of the red pre so low? can you be a little more specific, beyond "POS". interested in your perspective...

[hociman]

Originally Posted by toque-eh!

jonathon, why is your opinion of the red pre so low? can you be a little more specific, beyond "POS". interested in your perspective...

Absolutely. I detest the Red1 for the following reasons:

1. Gain increments. 6dB is too coarse.
2. Metering. The meter is lame.
3. Lack of headroom. Not only is the meter lame, but if you go above 0VU on the meter, you get what I associate with digital distortion. An instant, harsh sound. As a result, I had to record lower than I would've liked. I can hit other preamps hard beyond 0VU before hearing distortion.

The above observations were made using U87s while doing voice over recording. I know someone else who does like the Red1. I believe he uses it for drums. It may be adequate for drums, it may be stellar on another instrument, but for me, its drawbacks outweighed trying it with anything else. I felt I could get a better sound with the preamp in an O2R (everything else being the same). I have since switched to Avalons. I use either the AD2022 followed by a Millenia Media TCL-2 or a 737sp. Compression notwithstanding, I still prefer them over the Red1.

Do you like the Red1? What do you use it for?

[toque-eh!]

hey jonathon, thanks for clarifying.

well for years i've used the red 1 pre's for music recording in a 2" studio i used to use a lot. i liked the sound, much nicer than console pre's, and never once found i could hear any distortion even with pushing the meter. voice over is incredibly demanding though, and any little problem is going to be glaringly obvious. i wonder though if the unit you used was operating at spec. as these pre's are more known for soft distortion, quite unlike what you describe.

hey, i totally agree that 6dB steps is not great, especially if you want to go straight to tape (or whatever storage medium). the meter.. well, i never really look at them. so many pre's have no meters, that i don't really care about that. i look at the deck to see levels.

a few years ago i bought a red 6 pre for myself because i liked the sound of the pre and i've been quite happy with it, especially on vocals, oddly enough. the EQ is also very sweet but can't do the massive sound reshaping that sometimes is fun. the red 6 also uses a gain pot, not stepped attentuation, and also has an output control pot, so controlling level is much different than the red 1.

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by cachemira

Hi,

A client wants to use my Focusrite RED 1 Pres with his DBX 166XL.

The Focusrite doesn´t have insert points, so which could be the best way to do it?

Focusrite out>DBX in>storage medium.

[denial]

Is this a trick question?

What else can you do other than what Drumsound suggested. The insert would follow the mic preamp on a console and the Red1 is 4 channels of mic pre so it seems pretty obvious you'd come out of the Red1 into a compressor/eq and then out to tape/disk.

Are you suggesting that you've never used an outboard compressor/eq with your Red1?

[cachemira]

Originally Posted by denial

Is this a trick question?

What else can you do other than what Drumsound suggested. The insert would follow the mic preamp on a console and the Red1 is 4 channels of mic pre so it seems pretty obvious you'd come out of the Red1 into a compressor/eq and then out to tape/disk.

Are you suggesting that you've never used an outboard compressor/eq with your Red1?

It isn´t a trick question, I´ve never used an outboar comp/eq with my Red1. I go straight to PT.

[hociman]

Originally Posted by toque-eh!

i wonder though if the unit you used was operating at spec. as these pre's are more known for soft distortion, quite unlike what you describe.

hey, i totally agree that 6dB steps is not great, especially if you want to go straight to tape (or whatever storage medium). the meter.. well, i never really look at them. so many pre's have no meters, that i don't really care about that. i look at the deck to see levels.

a few years ago i bought a red 6 pre for myself because i liked the sound of the pre and i've been quite happy with it, especially on vocals, oddly enough. the EQ is also very sweet but can't do the massive sound reshaping that sometimes is fun. the red 6 also uses a gain pot, not stepped attentuation, and also has an output control pot, so controlling level is much different than the red 1.

Perhaps the Red1 was out of spec, but I'll never know. I unloaded it. At least we agree that 6dB steps are not great. I can use my ears, but I prefer to have a little confirmation of what I'm hearing and how much headroom I have left.

The Red6 reads like a better unit. If I'm in Vancouver I'll have to take a listen.

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by denial

Is this a trick question?

What else can you do other than what Drumsound suggested. The insert would follow the mic preamp on a console and the Red1 is 4 channels of mic pre so it seems pretty obvious you'd come out of the Red1 into a compressor/eq and then out to tape/disk.

Are you suggesting that you've never used an outboard compressor/eq with your Red1?

Hey Denial.., speaking of inserts ( don't mean to hi-jack thread), but... which is better, using insert jacks ( normally different level) or staying "in-line" ? Is there a sonic difference in sound quality? Thanks... thumbsup

[denial]

Originally Posted by Snatchman

Hey Denial.., speaking of inserts ( don't mean to hi-jack thread), but... which is better, using insert jacks ( normally different level) or staying "in-line" ? Is there a sonic difference in sound quality? Thanks... thumbsup

I think of inserts in the traditional sense, that being of a console. Generally inserts come between the mic pre and eq and therefore are often used to patch in gates and compressors. Some consoles come with switches to select where the insert appears (pre or post EQ for example).

The amount of circuitry the signal travels will no doubt vary the sound passed. This could be both pleasing or detrimental to the sound depending on the design. Sometimes you may not even hear a difference but generally the noise floor will raise slighlty.

In your case, you are merely connecting the Red1 preamp output to a compressor using a regular balanced signal cable whereas with a console insert, the signal leaves the console channel path via the insert point, enters the compressor, leaves the compressor and then returns back into the insert point to continue the console channel path. This is somewhat similar if you are using hardware inserts in a DAW, usually during the mix.

I appologize if i didn't answer your question.