Ear Fatigue

[vaesion]

How in the hell do you guys finish 6 huge mixes a day on a ssl board accurately with the human weakness of ear fatigue. I only work on a pc.
I freakin hate it.
How do you guys space out your work to stay accurate........
Its rediculous how much my hearing changes.
I have to have alot of sleep to hear right.
My hearing changes from not enough sleep, to much sugar, to much light to much listening,,, then I start getting over tired and then it sounds better than it actually is.

Its almost seems impossible to stay accurate.
its amazing how one day...........even with fresh ears the music can sound hard/harsh to me- just like ass..........then later that night it sounds warm and transparent and Im like DAMN my gear sounds good....
before u answer remember i dont drink or do any drugs including cigarretts

how do u stay consistent?

[DrDeltaM]

What monitors you use? Bad monitors cause ear fatigue way faster.

Also take enough short silent breaks in between.

[toolskid]

I would thoroughly recommend referencing every time you sit down to work...

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by vaesion

How in the hell do you guys finish 6 huge mixes a day on a ssl board accurately with the human weakness of ear fatigue. I only work on a pc.
I freakin hate it.
How do you guys space out your work to stay accurate........
Its rediculous how much my hearing changes.
I have to have alot of sleep to hear right.
My hearing changes from not enough sleep, to much sugar, to much light to much listening,,, then I start getting over tired and then it sounds better than it actually is.

Its almost seems impossible to stay accurate.
its amazing how one day...........even with fresh ears the music can sound hard/harsh to me- just like ass..........then later that night it sounds warm and transparent and Im like DAMN my gear sounds good....
before u answer remember i dont drink or do any drugs including cigarretts

how do u stay consistent?

A. Who does 6 mixes a day, besides Dave Martin?
B. What speakers do you listen on?
C. Do you a/b with records?
D. How loud do you listen?
These are all important factors. Also there is the issue of experience.
Hopefully the more you do it the better you get.

[loudist]

Take up smoking and don't smoke in the control room.
You will take 5 minute ear breaks every 45 minutes or so.
Seriously,
Keep jumping around onto different monitors (3 sets are good), think of it as a sort of a screensaver for your ears.

Unless you are a Belgian Hack, then nothing will help.

I have recently started taking reference breaks.

It has made a big difference in my ability to stay focused.

D

[pan60]

A. Who does 6 mixes a day, besides Dave Martin?

funny

[Travl]

Loudist's suggestion of breaks every 45 minutes and multiple monitor sources are what I do to combat ear fatigue. The breaks especially help for me. I heard that if you listen to loud music (im not sure exactly what db) for 30-45 minutes or more straight) you run the risk of permanent hearing damage. After seeing this on the discovery channel I started trying to take a break every 45mins.

[lucey]

I work around 85dbA and take 5 mins. after every master is printed ... here's some OSHA info:

Environmental Noise
Weakest sound heard 0dB
Normal conversation (3-5') 60-70dB
Telephone dial tone 80dB
City Traffic (inside car) 85dB
Train whistle at 500' 90dB
Subway train at 200' 95dB
Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss 90 - 95dB
Power mower 107dB
Power saw 110dB
Pain begins 125dB
Pneumatic riveter at 4' 125dB
Jet engine at 100' 140dB
Death of hearing tissue 180dB
Loudest sound possible 194dB


OSHA Daily Permissible Noise Level Exposure
Hrs/day Sound level
8 90dB
6 92dB
4 95dB
3 97dB
2 100dB
1.5 102dB
1 105dB
.5 110dB
.25 or less 115dB


Perceptions of Increases in Decibel Level
Imperceptible Change 1dB
Barely Perceptible Change 3dB
Clearly Noticeable Change 5dB
About Twice as Loud 10dB
About Four Times as Loud 20dB

[johnpitcairn]

Originally Posted by lucey

Pain begins 125dB

Hmmm. Yes. That would be:

Gordons, Hillsborough, Christchurch, NZ, 1980
Ramones, Christchurch Town Hall, NZ, 1980
Motorhead, Christchurch Town Hall, NZ, 1980
Bailter Space, Powerstation, Auckland, NZ, 1988
Ramones, Powerstation, Auckland, NZ, 1989
Dinosaur Jnr, Powerstation, Auckland, NZ, 1989

My ears are screwed ... live sound engineers, I ****ing hate you.

John Pitcairn

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[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by lucey

I work around 85dbA and take 5 mins. after every master is printed ... here's some OSHA info:

Perceptions of Increases in Decibel Level
Imperceptible Change 1dB
Barely Perceptible Change 3dB
Clearly Noticeable Change 5dB
About Twice as Loud 10dB
About Four Times as Loud 20dB

seriously? 3dB a barely perceptible change? and if 1dB is imperceptible, why do we print mixes w/ vocal up and down 1 dB. I think OSHA might be rounding those figures.

--jon

[Peter Morrison]

I'm far from being an expert on the subject, but at least with my experiences/experiments although we won't hear 1 dB with a sine wave, the 1dB change causes different interactions with the harmonics and other frequencies of the voice, so it does change the sound, giving it different characteristics in the mix

This may just be a load of bullshit but that's how I rationalize it

Peter

[cl516]

i've been having the same problems lately,
and although i try to sleep it off,
time's been running short.

i find for me listening to other tunes really helps,
all genres.

or maybe covering my ears in the shower for 5 minutes.
i'm no expert, but this is just what helps me.

[Jules]

I think the truth is

1) a pro mixer instinctivly takes (sometimes inSISting on taking breaks) during the sessions, even if doing it causes the po faced 'why-isnt-everybody-killing-themselves-for-my-music artist - to conspicuously look at their watch with an "I-just-put-someone-elses-chewing-gum-in-my-mouth-by-acident expression on their face.

2) "we" know how to mix WHEN OUR EARS ARE A BIT TIRED

3) I find ribbon tweeters a help... I think I would be hearing a dog wistle at 180dbs 24 hours a day by now if I didn't ditch NS10's a long time ago....

Very often late at night after a long sessions managers / artists can all start to cry, paranoid .. "I don't know now, I think my ears are tired" - well the mixer DOES know.. So they shouldnt be so freaked out.

Jules "can we de-ess the mix?" Standen

[roughly]

Originally Posted by Jules

I think the truth is

1) a pro mixer instinctivly takes (sometimes inSISting on taking breaks) during the sessions, even if doing it causes the po faced 'why-isnt-everybody-killing-themselves-for-my-music artist - to conspicuously look at their watch with an "I-just-put-someone-elses-chewing-gum-in-my-mouth-by-acident expression on their face.

A-hahaha! My grandmother used to refer to that as "making a poor mouth".

[Ziggy!!]

Originally Posted by JonCraig

seriously? 3dB a barely perceptible change? and if 1dB is imperceptible, why do we print mixes w/ vocal up and down 1 dB. I think OSHA might be rounding those figures.

--jon

Nope, its true as far as im aware...

human hearing also can't determine anything less than a 3 cent change in pitch(100 cents make up a semitone).

human hearing can't detect a change in sound direction of anything less than 2 degrees in any direction.

[drundall]

wow, I guess all the people who print vocals up .5dB are kidding themselves...

[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by Ziggy!!

Nope, its true as far as im aware...

human hearing also can't determine anything less than a 3 cent change in pitch(100 cents make up a semitone).

human hearing can't detect a change in sound direction of anything less than 2 degrees in any direction.

we're accurate to within 1 degree on the frontal plane, but we're quite horrible in a cone-shaped area radiating out from each ear. these areas are known as the cone of confusion.

and yeah, 3 cents sounds about right.

as for 3dB level differences... seriously... think about it a second... you're telling me that you have to bump that fader up *3dB* before you notice a change? then why do we do precise fader rides on the vocal, moving all around but probably within 3 or 4 dB?

--jon

[syra]

3db is the "noticable difference" to the untrained ear/average listener/your mum...not to engineers...sometimes even 1 db is too much!

[lucey]

Originally Posted by syra

3db is the "noticable difference" to the untrained ear/average listener/your mum...not to engineers...sometimes even 1 db is too much!

and in mastering, with program material of almost any style

0.1db is noticed

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by syra

3db is the "noticable difference" to the untrained ear/average listener/your mum...not to engineers...sometimes even 1 db is too much!

I don't know about that.

I've done the test with some of my colleagues and they always get it wrong.

Just for laughs i turn it down 1db and they all swear that i turned it up.

[Ziggy!!]

Originally Posted by JonCraig

as for 3dB level differences... seriously... think about it a second... you're telling me that you have to bump that fader up *3dB* before you notice a change? then why do we do precise fader rides on the vocal, moving all around but probably within 3 or 4 dB?

--jon

I dunno... why does my Toyota Hatchback's Speedo go up to 180km/h?

This is just the shit they are teaching me at university regarding phsyco-acoustics. Its a valid point though, and i'll be sure to find out an answer...