Big Ben and Jitter

[nek]

OK, first of all, what does jitter sound like to you guys?

Secondly do you think a Big Ben could improve the sound of a high end converter (like a Rosetta 200)? How about a low end converter (MOTU 896HD)?

Do you think that Big Ben could impove the sound of one converter or would you need to have lots of converters set up in a "star" configuration to notice a differences?


I have a MOTU 896HD right now and I will be getting a Rosetta 200 in about a week or so. I am thinking about get a Big Ben too.


Thanks,
Nick

[MBishopSFX]

Jitter will cause general smearing of the imaging (less separation), destroy the "depth" of the recording (low-level detail & reverb), and make the recording sound edge-y and irritating. Sometimes, the jitter effects creep in so subtly that you don't notice until you compare back to the non-jittery version. Something as simple as what digi interconnect you use may have an effect on system jitter performance. Any digital gear can be susceptible to jitter from recording gear to CD players, even the LBR used for mastering at the CD replicator.

A good master reference clock will make a significant difference in the performance of multiple pieces of digital equipment strung together, such as multiple A/D or D/A converters. The clock would be equally distributed to all pieces, NOT daisy-chained (i.e. clock-in thru to clock-out).

[Recording David]

I'm thinking about getting one too. I have good AD converters (Troisi) and would be using it to facilitate mixing with digital outboard, entirely in the digital domain. Could I expect to hear an improvement if I clocked a digital compressor, eq and MOTU 896 using the Big Ben?

Thanks.

[gsarbo]

Originally Posted by MBishopSFX

Jitter will cause general smearing of the imaging (less separation), destroy the "depth" of the recording (low-level detail & reverb), and make the recording sound edge-y and irritating. Sometimes, the jitter effects creep in so subtly that you don't notice until you compare back to the non-jittery version. Something as simple as what digi interconnect you use may have an effect on system jitter performance. Any digital gear can be susceptible to jitter from recording gear to CD players, even the LBR used for mastering at the CD replicator.

A good master reference clock will make a significant difference in the performance of multiple pieces of digital equipment strung together, such as multiple A/D or D/A converters. The clock would be equally distributed to all pieces, NOT daisy-chained (i.e. clock-in thru to clock-out).

I was using a Genx6 as a master clock. It worked wonders to clean up
lowend, and tighten up the stereo image, etc. Then I purchased a Rosetta
800. The way I have everything clocked now seems kind of, well, kludgy:
Rosetta as the master, GenX6 as slave, then all else distributed from the GenX.

I hope you don't take this as hi-jacking this thread, but, would it be better to
return the Genx6 to being master clock of everything? ie:
1) Is the Genx6 as good a clock as what's in Rosetta?
2) Does my current clock chain make more sense?

Ted Arbogast

[tINY]

Originally Posted by MBishopSFX

Something as simple as what digi interconnect you use may have an effect on system jitter performance. .

Only if the link is providing the clock to a converter.


-tINY

[SnakeCained]

Big Ben has jitter that according to Apogee is imeasurable. I'm glad nuclear physics does not give up when things get this small!

A master clock helps when you have multiple digital devices, but is a pain when you load up DAW projects recorded at different rates.

[vaesion]

can someone tell me for sure if its worth it for me to get a apogee big ben when i already have a apogee rosetta 800.
the only thing thats digital in my studio is the rosetta to the rme digiface for the computer

[hociman]

Originally Posted by SnakeCained

A master clock helps when you have multiple digital devices, but is a pain when you load up DAW projects recorded at different rates.

Well, then use your DAWs interface as the master clock, and use the GENx6(-96) or similar to distribute that master clock. I know full well that this means not using a Big Ben or similar clock, but if you forget to or don't like to set your clocks manually, this is as close to foolproof as you will get.

[gsarbo]

vaesion asked:
can someone tell me for sure if its worth it for me to get a apogee big ben when i already have a apogee rosetta 800.
the only thing thats digital in my studio is the rosetta to the rme digiface for the computer
on 9th March 2005 06:07 AM

I talked to Samara at Mercenary just yesterday about that very question.
She said that unless I'm into Big Ben's extra features, that Rosetta's clock
is just fine. Since I'm just doing 24/44.1 or 24/48, I won't worry about it.
In regards to the question of whether to use the Rosetta or my Lucid GenX6
as the master clock, she said there's no question but that I should use the
Rosetta as master, where the GenX slaves off it and distributes to the rest
of my digi-gear.

[Mastering101]

Mercenary is right. you only need a master clock if your running "usually" more than 3 pieces of gear digitally. i have a big ben i run with a fireface 800, 3 eventide
effects processors all running digital. my mix really tightened up as soon as i hooked up the big ben. i have a rosetta 800 i will be adding to my setup as soon
as i have my xfirewire in april or maybe i'll hook it up to my fireface. i have to say the fireface converters are nice converters for the money..

Originally Posted by gsarb
000o

vaesion asked:
can someone tell me for sure if its worth it for me to get a apogee big ben when i already have a apogee rosetta 800.
the only thing thats digital in my studio is the rosetta to the rme digiface for the computer
on 9th March 2005 06:07 AM

I talked to Samara at Mercenary just yesterday about that very question.
She said that unless I'm into Big Ben's extra features, that Rosetta's clock
is just fine. Since I'm just doing 24/44.1 or 24/48, I won't worry about it.
In regards to the question of whether to use the Rosetta or my Lucid GenX6
as the master clock, she said there's no question but that I should use the
Rosetta as master, where the GenX slaves off it and distributes to the rest
of my digi-gear.

[kudzu]

ISA 428 (with AD card), Rosetta 200 and Tascam FW1884 here, all clocked to a big ben...
Sounds fantastic @ 88.2Khz/24bit
Big Ben WORKS!!!!!!!!!! thumbsup

[T_R_S]

I recently read some info by Dan Lavry ( The original designer of Appoee ) he says the=at is some cases an external clock can cause more problems than they can help. One thsi i have learned in my 30 + years of recording - there is no rules about anything all time. What works one day may not work all the time for everything.

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/ind...9363e2369392bf

[heinz]

careful posting those Lavry links, you may be accused of intent to bore with facts.

[Ruudman]

No rules about anything..
I agree.


ruudman

[Max]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

I recently read some info by Dan Lavry ( The original designer of Appoee ) he says the=at is some cases an external clock can cause more problems than they can help. One thsi i have learned in my 30 + years of recording - there is no rules about anything all time. What works one day may not work all the time for everything.

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/ind...9363e2369392bf

For the record, Bruce Jackson (Apogee's co-founder) and Christof Heidelberger were the original designers. Dan Lavry was a relatively short term employee of Apogee.

As for the rest, I would say that the only rule should be to do what sounds best.