Avalon 737 vs. Avalon M5 and Avalon 747

[pablotx]

Guys,

I am looking at upgrading my studio and need to buy a good mic pre and good compressor. I have a budget of about 4k US$. Does the 737 suffice for both needs, or should I get a 747 and M5? Or should I look at going another direction? I am running Nuendo 2 with MOTU 2408. I record mainly rock but occasionally other genres. I use a RODE Classic II mic, Nueman TLM 103, BLUE Dragonflies through an Allen and Heath board. But I don't currently have an outboard mic pre or compressor. Help please.

[C.Lambrechts]

I like avalon ... like it a lot ... but not realy the 737 or 747. pre wise if you go for avalon I'd say M5 or AD2022.

That said ... Buzz audio is worth having a look at imho. As clean and transparent as they come ... The Ma2.2 is a very clean and good sounding pre which imho does not have to bow down in front of the avalon and the Soc stereo compressor is extremely musical.

[Jason Poulin]

I can tell you one thing that's for sure!


They're all made by Avalon

Jason

[Julian J. Ludwig]

Pacifica + HM2 Nail All you need, about 4k US$.

[DannyMac]

have to throw in - Millennia STT1

love the Avalon, but love this better

[McDingus]

The compressor on the avalon 737 is... well useless comes to mind about 99% of the time...

I sold my 737 (though I wouldn't mind having it back) and the buyer asked if the compressor was broken... Nope, its designed to suck ass.

You can get the babyface mod, and then it will... well let see... still suck ass.

[m1a1x1e1r1]

I like the 747 eq section. I had a 2055 and the 2022 pre at one time. Didn't work for me, but ymmv.

I use a 737 at work sometimes. The pre's pretty good. Nothing rock 'n' roll about it. The compressor's never worked for me very well. Maybe it's because I'm usually rushed, and I have to switch over to whatever works (like plug it in and it's there)? Dunno. The eq's alright. It's usable. Kinna felt the same way about the eq on the 737 as I did about the 2055. Could just be me. I dunno. The 2055 and 737 eq section just didn't do it for me. Could be a placebo affect though.

[timepizzle]

this thread is 5 years old...i would hope he made his decision by now...lol

[McDingus]

Originally Posted by timepizzle

this thread is 5 years old...i would hope he made his decision by now...lol

You know, its been specifically requested to BUMP old threads as opposed to start new ones...

I don't think everyone is so stupid they didn't know that...

But thanks for pointing out the sun came up this morning!... LOL

Its amazing to me how many nitwits post the EXACT same thing as people respectfull bump old threads when they can...

But sure, we need another NEW 737 thread...fuuck

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by McDingus

The compressor on the avalon 737 is... well useless comes to mind about 99% of the time...

Works great for mixing snares.

[McDingus]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Works great for mixing snares.

Mixing snares?

Not sure what you mean.

Works great on a snare at mix? Or a mult?

I never tried it on snare- though I could see the EQ sounding good on snare (but we are talking comp section).

I never found the comp to be worth sh*t considering the other options in the room. And snare in my world is in the top 3 aspects of a great mix (vox, snare, bass) - so I went other ways with it.

But again, never tried it so I can't comment!

I do regret selling it for 1300 bucks, but thats for the DI, EQ, R&B vox and acoustic guitars.

I used to be a hater but I resolved that to just the comp. The best R&B vox I ever cut was on a 737 admittedly... NOT in my opinion but everyone elses and they are the ones who matter anyway- the listeners.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by McDingus

Mixing snares?

Not sure what you mean.

Works great on a snare at mix? Or a mult?

I am talking compression on a snare itself at mixdown. The compression characteristic of the 737 is perfect for it. You can get it to really crack in a nice way if you set the attack and release right. Different then something like a Distressor or SSL channel compressor which is what most people like to use.

[Cinemascope]

the 737 gets an unfairly bad rap around here inmho

it is amazing with the right mic and the right singer

we've got the babyface version (amongst other premium pres) and together with a c800G and the right (usually female) voice it is unbeatable for certain things

i also probably don't need to say that some insanely great records have been made with it (Bjork, Andre3000 etc)

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts

I like avalon ... like it a lot ... but not realy the 737 or 747. pre wise if you go for avalon I'd say M5 or AD2022.

That said ... Buzz audio is worth having a look at imho. As clean and transparent as they come ... The Ma2.2 is a very clean and good sounding pre which imho does not have to bow down in front of the avalon and the Soc stereo compressor is extremely musical.

You are so right about the Buzz gear.

[alohachris]

Aloha,

Owned both the Avalon M5 & SP737 (both one channel only). Turned them over pretty fast. To my ears, both sounded a bit sterile, lacking in warmth. As an acoustic soloist, I much prefer open-sounding, two-channel preamps. I really like the 2022, but.....

LOVE the A-Designs Pacifica, Great River MP-2NV & the Pendulum MDP-1 tube better. Own all three for different purposes & mic combo's. Tried out (rented) more than 25 high-end pre's before deciding on those gems.

Of the Avalon pre's, I'd choose the 2022.

If I had to get one preamp & had a limited budget, I'd get the two-channel Pacifica preamp.

With more budget, I'd get a couple of Pendulum Quartet's or Millenia STT channelstrips if I wanted more features like compressors.

Compression is so over-rated & soul killing on acoustic instruments & many voices as well, IMO. Though an unpopular statement, I'd skip the expense of outboard compressor hardware & use digital compressor plug-in's very lightly if you must at all.

Too many people in the music business are far too happy to quash their music to death these days in the interest of reving up the volume to insane levels, IMO. I've backed off of most compression.

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha,

Owned both the Avalon M5 & SP737 (both one channel only). Turned them over pretty fast. To my ears, both sounded a bit sterile, lacking in warmth. As an acoustic soloist, I much prefer open-sounding, two-channel preamps. I really like the 2022, but.....

LOVE the A-Designs Pacifica, Great River MP-2NV & the Pendulum MDP-1 tube better. Own all three for different purposes & mic combo's. Tried out (rented) more than 25 high-end pre's before deciding on those gems.

Of the Avalon pre's, I'd choose the 2022.

If I had to get one preamp & had a limited budget, I'd get the two-channel Pacifica preamp.

With more budget, I'd get a couple of Pendulum Quartet's or Millenia STT channelstrips if I wanted more features like compressors.

Compression is so over-rated & soul killing on acoustic instruments & many voices as well, IMO. Though an unpopular statement, I'd skip the expense of outboard compressor hardware & use digital compressor plug-in's very lightly if you must at all.

Too many people in the music business are far too happy to quash their music to death these days in the interest of reving up the volume to insane levels, IMO. I've backed off of most compression.

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

I bet so, because the other VT series is Avalon, the AD series is based off a Krell Design rip off, google Krell audiophile and see how much it cost. Good stuff.

[Moatl]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha,

Compression is so over-rated & soul killing on acoustic instruments & many voices as well, IMO. Though an unpopular statement, I'd skip the expense of outboard compressor hardware & use digital compressor plug-in's very lightly if you must at all.

Too many people in the music business are far too happy to quash their music to death these days in the interest of reving up the volume to insane levels, IMO. I've backed off of most compression.

I think you have missed a serious point about compressors.
Most of the time they are tone-shaping & transient-shaping tools that bring lower-level elements of a signal more to the front...

...i.e. for emphasizing the "belly" of a snare without the the attack of it killing your eardrums.

And the difference between good hardware comps and plugins can be huge!!
Maybe you could also rent some and check them out (1176, LA2A or so) against your plugins - I bet you won't want to use plug-ins any more than necessary

But to not get to far away from the topic - Most of the time I think it works better to get a certain mic-pre with the sound you like and then a certain comp with the sound you like rather than buying all in one box and compromise about both...

[alohachris]

Aloha,

AllAboutTone - I do know about Krell. For many years, I owned an audiophile Krell preamp that was amazing, & yes, at around $7K. I was just suggesting to the OP that he/she dig deeper into the Avalon line to find a better sounding, more flexible preamp like the 2022. I didn't know about the Avalon-Krell connection. Thanks.

Moat - Ya just caught me on a bad day, RE: compressors. I go through periods like that with compressor technology. I'm sorry. Though my written words in that post sounded like it, I didn't mean to imply that there are no excellent uses for lightly applied compression - such as on percussion. Of course there are, especially when there are mega-tracks.

As a mainly acoustic kind of recording guy, I was simply lamenting the very real negatives that too heavy a hand on the compressor can create in acoustic music. It just kills the very soul & feel of the acoustic guitar, IMO. It kills acoustic sound - and not in a good sense. It eliminates the air around & sense of open space between the notes & at higher levels, and induces ear fatigue - a cardinal "no" , IMO. So it's not my favorite tool.

I'd also had a lengthy discussion/debate with a few engineers yesterday about "loudness" levels on modern mainstream music CD's. After going to the Pro Bowl here in Honolulu a couple weeks ago & being bombarded by quashed, compressed, hyper-dB level music throughout, I was wasted by the end. Heavy compression has something to do with that ear fatigue.

And watching the Super Bowl last week gave us nothing to believe that current trends (or lip-service) to lower dB levels on CD's is going to happen in America anytime soon either - despite reg's to the contrary. Unenforceable anyway. Ha!

So my anti-compression sentiments spoke to those who may not realize that compression doesn't not necessarily ensure better sounding, more listenable recordings, and that compression to the max PLUS more volume (quashed) results should not be the goal - even if they are the norm in much of today's mainstream recorded music.

Since I don't use much compression if any on most solo acoustic guitar or vocal recordings, I simply don't need an 1176 (I have tried it out though). But not all plug-in compressors suck by comparison, IMO. Flux Epure EQ, with either Waves SSL or API 2500 with Solera+ or a Sonnox Oxford limiter aren't exactly the dog meat of the eq/compressor/limiter world, right? But it's a moot point for my apps, Moat. I rarely use compression.

Your points are well taken, Moat.

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha,

AllAboutTone - I do know about Krell. For many years, I owned an audiophile Krell preamp that was amazing, & yes, at around $7K. I was just suggesting to the OP that he/she dig deeper into the Avalon line to find a better sounding, more flexible preamp like the 2022. I didn't know about the Avalon-Krell connection. Thanks.

Moat - Ya just caught me on a bad day, RE: compressors. I go through periods like that with compressor technology. I'm sorry. Though my written words in that post sounded like it, I didn't mean to imply that there are no excellent uses for lightly applied compression - such as on percussion. Of course there are, especially when there are mega-tracks.

As a mainly acoustic kind of recording guy, I was simply lamenting the very real negatives that too heavy a hand on the compressor can create in acoustic music. It just kills the very soul & feel of the acoustic guitar, IMO. It kills acoustic sound - and not in a good sense. It eliminates the air around & sense of open space between the notes & at higher levels, and induces ear fatigue - a cardinal "no" , IMO. So it's not my favorite tool.

I'd also had a lengthy discussion/debate with a few engineers yesterday about "loudness" levels on modern mainstream music CD's. After going to the Pro Bowl here in Honolulu a couple weeks ago & being bombarded by quashed, compressed, hyper-dB level music throughout, I was wasted by the end. Heavy compression has something to do with that ear fatigue.

And watching the Super Bowl last week gave us nothing to believe that current trends (or lip-service) to lower dB levels on CD's is going to happen in America anytime soon either - despite reg's to the contrary. Unenforceable anyway. Ha!

So my anti-compression sentiments spoke to those who may not realize that compression doesn't not necessarily ensure better sounding, more listenable recordings, and that compression to the max PLUS more volume (quashed) results should not be the goal - even if they are the norm in much of today's mainstream recorded music.

Since I don't use much compression if any on most solo acoustic guitar or vocal recordings, I simply don't need an 1176 (I have tried it out though). But not all plug-in compressors suck by comparison, IMO. Flux Epure EQ, with either Waves SSL or API 2500 with Solera+ or a Sonnox Oxford limiter aren't exactly the dog meat of the eq/compressor/limiter world, right? But it's a moot point for my apps, Moat. I rarely use compression.

Your points are well taken, Moat.

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

Connections ? yes and no, nothing direct so to speak, What I have heard over the years, a guy worked with Krell left and went with Avalon and took the designs of the Krell, these may not be the exact things that happened but I have heard it more than a few times.
But you do see the Class A in the AD series just like Krell, they even have the Silver face plates and lots of others simular things.

[Moatl]

Yes alohachris,

Now I get your point -
I'm definitely with you concerning the loudness war - it kills the music.