Led Zeppelin guitars

[skybluerental]

i looked around and couldnt find any threads discussing led zep guitar sounds...............
so, im starting one.

im interested in knowing what gear was used to achieve some of the different acoustic and electric guitar sounds on the first 5 records.

specifically, the AMAZING ac gtr sounds on led zep III like "thats the way" and "the rain song" on HOTH....................

also interested in the electric guitar sounds on houses of the holy.

i know the guitar gear that page used and that a lot of their stuff was recorded on a helios, but what mics/comps would have been used to help create these sounds?
U 67, U 87, Coles 4038???
LA 2A, 1176, LA 3A????

very curious.
any info or links to articles would be GREAT.
thanks
anthony

[TQP]

i'd also be interested to hear if anyone has info to share...

[Fletcher]

You might want to ask this question on the "Whatever Works" forum on R/E/P which is moderated by Ross Hogarth and Terry Manning who engineered Led Zeppelin III.

Just a suggestion... as sometimes going to the source is a bit better than Gearslutz conjecture.

Peace.

[indravayu]

Some snippets for you.

Page on recording various tunes (from a Guitar World interview):
http://www.iem.ac.ru/zeppelin/docs/i...ews/page_93.gw

"[thinks hard] You know, I don't remember what I used on "Good Times Bad Times", but curiously, I do remember using the board to overdrive a
Leslie cabinet for the main riff in "How Many More Times".It doesn't
sound like a Leslie because I wasn't employing the rotating speakers.
Surprisingly, that sound has real weight. The guitar is going through the board, then through an amp which was driving the Leslie cabinet. It was a very successful experiment.
But for most of the recorded I was using a Supro amp, a wah-wah and a distortion unit called a Tonebender, which was one of Roger Mayer's creations."
========================================
On Black Dog:
"We put my Les Paul through a direct box, and from there into a mic channel. We used the mic amp of the mixing board to get distortion. Then we ran it through two Urei 1176 Universal compressors in series. Then each line was triple-tracked. Curiously, I was listening to that track when we were reviewing the tapes and the guitars almost sound like an analog synthesizer."
====================================
GW: Your bow playing, especially on "Dazed and Confused", is really enhanced by echo. What did you use?

Page: It was actually reverb. We used those old EMT plate reverbs.

GW: That's a little surprising, because there are some areas on the record that sound like you're using tape echo. In fact, Led Zeppelin I was the first album that I can think of that employed such long echoes and delays.

Page: It's a little difficult to remember, and I can't tell you on exactly which tracks, but there was alot of EMT plate reverb put on to tape and then delayed -- machine delayed. You were only given so much time on those old spring reverbs.

===================================
GW: What guitar did you use on "Song", was it the Gibson Doubleneck??

Page: No, I used a Fender 12-string in the studio. And before the Fender, I used a Vox 12-string. You can hear the Vox on things like "Thank You" and "Living Loving Maid" on the Second album.

GW: "Houses" is so bright-sounding. Did you vari-speed the tape up a notch to get everything to sparkle more??

Page: No, the only song I can think of that we vari-speeded up were a couple of overdubs on "Achilles Last Stand". However, I applied the vari-speed to the overall track of "No Quarter". I dropped the whole song a quarter
===================================
GW: Apart from "No Quarter", "Houses" is a happy sounding album, suggesting that you were on top of the world at that time. "The Crunge", for example, is a complete goof.

Page: I played a Strat on that one -- I wanted to get that tight James Brown feel. You have to listen closely, but you can hear me depressing a whammy bar at the end of each phrase. Bonzo started the groove on "The Crunge", then Jonesy started playing that descending bass line and I just came in on the rhythm. You can really hear the fun we were having on "Houses" and "Physical Graffiti". And you can also hear the dedication and commitment.
====================================

- Chris

[Paul EQ]

Jimmy Page was famous for using RCA BA6A limiters on his acoustic guitars.

[userofgear]

Originally Posted by Paul EQ

Jimmy Page was famous for using RCA BA6A limiters on his acoustic guitars.

hello,

i thought he was famous for those songs and that band, but it was compressors huh?


userofgear

[infopimpster]

I was going to photoshop a "Teen Beat" cover with Page's compression choices as the "slugline" but... better judgement and a lack of time prevailed. :)

[Paul EQ]

Originally Posted by userofgear

hello,

i thought he was famous for those songs and that band, but it was compressors huh?


userofgear

Er... The sites called GEARSLUTZ - Thanks for your insightful contribution regarding Led Zep's guitar sounds, mics / comps...

[vernier]

Telecaster and small Supro amp, not close mic'd.
'

[johnnyjellybean]

Start with an old Tele and an old Les Paul sunburst and go from there...

[indravayu]

Originally Posted by Paul EQ

Jimmy Page was famous for using RCA BA6A limiters on his acoustic guitars.

Some discussion on this subject:
PSW Recording Forums: Terry Manning => jimmy page's compressor

[airmate]

you might want to read this:

Universal Audio

andy johns speaks about some aspects of the led zep guitar sounds - especially towards the end of that page. interesting!

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

You might want to ask this question on the "Whatever Works" forum on R/E/P which is moderated by Ross Hogarth and Terry Manning who engineered Led Zeppelin III.

Just a suggestion... as sometimes going to the source is a bit better than Gearslutz conjecture.

Peace.

wouldn't the Led Zeppelin guitar sound be because of Jimmy Page?
gawd forbid the player would ever get any credit. Then again he did produce it too.

Jimmy Page even has admitted he never used a producer to make it clear it was he and the band that were 'the sound'. Not the engineers etc...

Face it how many bands have cut records using the stones mobile unit?hundreds of bands? and hundreds of bands THAT DON'T SOUND LIKE Zep. The Stones used the same gear and they were half
the sound as zep if even that. Which proves it was the players not the gear.

I love how everyone attributes the sound of the band to the gear and glyn jones. How many Zep recordings have you heard including live? BBC? Live through 57's and MSG? through a shit P.A. ? Still always sounded the same, like Led Zeppelin and huge I might add. Didn't Kid Rock record his first record on the helios desk Zep used? His disk doesn't sound like a zep record not even close

the gear had nothing to do with it, not with zep.

[skybluerental]

Originally Posted by allencollins

wouldn't the Led Zeppelin guitar sound be because of Jimmy Page?
gawd forbid the player would ever get any credit. Then again he did produce it too.

Jimmy Page even has admitted he never used a producer to make it clear it was he and the band that were 'the sound'. Not the engineers etc...

Face it how many bands have cut records using the stones mobile unit?hundreds of bands? and hundreds of bands THAT DON'T SOUND LIKE Zep. The Stones used the same gear and they were half
the sound as zep if even that. Which proves it was the players not the gear.

I love how everyone attributes the sound of the band to the gear and glyn jones. How many Zep recordings have you heard including live? BBC? Live through 57's and MSG? through a shit P.A. ? Still always sounded the same, like Led Zeppelin and huge I might add. Didn't Kid Rock record his first record on the helios desk Zep used? His disk doesn't sound like a zep record not even close

the gear had nothing to do with it, not with zep.

you are funny.
"glyn jones" huh?
who's that, the love child of JPJ and glyn johns??

the acoustic guitar sound for "thats the way" sounds DRASTICALLy different on the BBC session compared to led zep III.
do a quick A/B and tell me im wrong.
this is just one example among many that make your assertion inaccurate.

to say the gear had nothing to do with it is plain wrong.
their records all sound quite different and certainly the gear and engineers certainly play some role. certainly page was interested in using certain gear for certain sonic reasons.

why does some twit always have to come into a perfectly interesting thread and say the cliche, "the gear has nothing to do with the sound"?

rubbish.

[Dean Roddey]

I guess you could take to the ad absurdium point and ask if it would have sounded the same way if he'd played a banjo? Clearly the gear makes a difference, else he woudln't have ever probably bothered to use more than one of each thing ever, right? He even says he uses a Strat in one example above for a specific sound. Clearly someone like him has a vibe of his own that is recognizeable, but it's going to sound different if he uses extremely different tools to play/record through, I'd think.

[vernier]

In the studio he played Fender Tele, Strat, pedal steel, electric 12 string, Parsons B-bender, Danelectro, Gibson J200, Les Paul, SG, Martin D28, and Gretsch guitars. And probably some others.
'

[doorknocker]

Danelectro guitars were very important I guess. Often the guitar sounds are rather small and boxy (on purpose) and nothing records better than Danos with their unique 'metallic' midrange. It worked especially great in combo with John Paul Jones bass playing which often used more distortion than the guitars.

Open tunings were important as well, a large part of the unique 'Rain Song' sound is the tuning, obviously combined with great composition and playing skills.

A lot of the acoustic guitars sound like they were recorded in a stone-walled building and I guess a lot of them were recorded that way.

In a certain way,Led Zeppelin was like a great string quartet, the players just covered the frequency spectrum perfectly.

[vodka gimli]

Some good info here: Steve Rosen Interviews Jimmy Page

[airmate]

Originally Posted by allencollins

the gear had nothing to do with it, not with zep.

this is simply not true.

they have used some special techniques (like running an overdriven 1176 into another one), and here the gear they used has definitely played a crucial role for the sound they finally have achieved.
just read the interviews where jimmy page and andy johns speak about all this. and when they have said they used certain pieces of gear - and only those - for special applications, who are you to claim it all wouldn't matter?

of course i could all have been recorded on a mackie desk and it would still be great music...

[kats]

I think the "special techniques" became special after the fact in many cases. IIRC Terry Manning onced anwered a question similar to this but it was specific to the session.

He basically said that they would just plug a guitar into an amp that just happened to be set up from a prior session. Perhaps the DI gtr on Black Dog was just a matter of expediancy - and not some world conference on guitar tone.

[airmate]

Originally Posted by kats

I think the "special techniques" became special after the fact in many cases. IIRC Terry Manning onced anwered a question similar to this but it was specific to the session.

He basically said that they would just plug a guitar into an amp that just happened to be set up from a prior session. Perhaps the DI gtr on Black Dog was just a matter of expediancy - and not some world conference on guitar tone.

yes, i would agree!
but nonetheless they did certain things which had a special effect on the result - and which they maybe would do again if the results proved it was worth it.

btw: i visited terry manning at compass point a few weeks ago - we had an interesting talk about gear and how to use it. he is definitely not obsessed with gear in a way that he told me that the general vibe in the room and other factors would be more important for him than using the shiniest new console. this is a very reasonable attitude that i can definitely relate to...

[indravayu]

Originally Posted by kats

I think the "special techniques" became special after the fact in many cases. IIRC Terry Manning onced anwered a question similar to this but it was specific to the session.

He basically said that they would just plug a guitar into an amp that just happened to be set up from a prior session. Perhaps the DI gtr on Black Dog was just a matter of expediancy - and not some world conference on guitar tone.

Remember, too, that Jimmy Page was a very active session guitarist before Zeppelin - he had many occasions to watch the top producers and engineers in London in the 60's work their magic and this is how he learned how to produce, himself.

- Chris

[Dean Roddey]

Actually I heard him do Achilles Last Stand on banjo. It was pretty amazing.

[Paul Hammond]

To all those trying to figure out and duplicate Pagey's guitar sounds and tones, you have my heartfelt condolences. Cheers Mates! PH

[rob S]

there is a really good interview in tape op by Philip Stevenson with Andy Johns in which he talks about zep IV among other things.

[Jesse Mangum]

If you want Led Zep-sounding guitars, go out and buy you a Jimmy Page...

It worked for Puff Daddy!

[TonyBelmont]

I always find it kind of funny when someone asks... "What did X person use?". Especially when we are talking about a particular legendary guitarist.

Sure, it's fun to know what the preamp or compressor was, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.... that's not what people want to hear, but it's true.

Think about it.... the distortion pedal (actually any of the pedals) is going to impart WAY more character than ANY preamp.

The mic and guitar amp combo is WAY more important than the compressors... and even then, it's REALLY about the player and technique.

The other thing people NEVER ask about is... WHAT TAPE MACHINE? Nobody wants to talk about the character tape imparted on the great recordings of the 70's. They just want to know what mic/ preamp/ compressor combos.

[sleestack]

There seems to be a lot of star ****ing on this board. In life for that matter.
Isn't fame mostly luck? Or ambition? There are shit tons of guitarists. Jimmy page is talented, Extremely, but he was also lucky as **** to meet the other members of led zeppelin and happen to make the music he did at that time.There has to be thousands and thousands of amazing musicians that never had the chance for innumerable reasons. I truly believe that. Luck, timing, right place right time. Ambition. Right chemistry. Lottery odds

[Dave Reid]

Originally Posted by sleestack

There seems to be a lot of star ****ing on this board. In life for that matter.
Isn't fame mostly luck? Or ambition? There are shit tons of guitarists. Jimmy page is talented, Extremely, but he was also lucky as **** to meet the other members of led zeppelin and happen to make the music he did at that time.There has to be thousands and thousands of amazing musicians that never had the chance for innumerable reasons. I truly believe that. Luck, timing, right place right time. Ambition. Right chemistry. Lottery odds

I know what your saying, but this site is all about gear.. Nothing about
anything else, people seem to forget this. The original poster was only
asking what gear was used by Glyn Johns for Zep's guitar sounds.. I
find it kinda interesting, i don't care about the talent apsect because
everyone knows about Jimmy and those records, it's just a different
angle.

[indravayu]

Jimmy Page is a huge influence on me as a musician, so I am interested in learning about the gear that he used simply out of curiosity and because I am trying to learn more about the process of recording. Since I started researching the equipment that helped make up his sound, I have been able to make much more informed choices when it comes to buying and using my own gear. My own guitar tone and recordings have gotten much, much better.

Anyone that want to make folks like me feel guilty or foolish for chasing after this kind of gear knowledge is wasting their time.