Outboard as convenient as Plug-Ins!

[Nick E]

On this website:

http://www.supersonicstudios.com/

under "Integration", the following is written:

"Any piece of outboard gear can be instantly accessed from any mixer insert, just as easily as a plug-in. This enables the engineer to dial-up real gear by name. We have essentially an automated patchbay that can save all the connections in a session without using a single patch cord..............The finest compressors, equalizers, and reverbs are simply a mouse-click away".

Does anyone know how this is done, and what it's done with?

It would be so cool to have outboard quality with plug-in convenience.

[zimv20]

i rather enjoy patching things in the physical realm. surely i'm not the only one.

[Tim Farrant]

Yeah. This is done with relays or some form of switching matrix under computor control. It's not a new concept by any stretch of the imagination. The problem being that when I have suggested such a matrix in the past before we had "plugins", the cost was always out the window _ maybe not these days? It is possible, yes.

Tim

[Tim Halligan]

It has already happened...some years ago. There was a device called "Tantec(k?) Master Matrix." The idea was to patch your insert sends & returns to this box, then patch up all of the outboard to the other end, and you could then switch any device to any insert...you could even chain devices...

You could save favourite configs for instant recall.

Good...well, okay idea.

Sound just sucked. Seemed to suck the life out of ANYTHING you ran through it.
We persevered for about a month before binning it. Mind you, this was 1988. Hopefully things have progressed since then...

Oh, plug-ins. Well...apparently not

Cheers,
Tim

ps. Didn't Al Smart build something like this for Real World Studios? I may be mistaken...

[blackcatdigi]

Originally posted by Nick E
Does anyone know how this is done, and what it's done with?

With a 32 fader Icon D-Control, PT HD/7, (3)192s, and (6)96 I/Os.

All the outboard has dedicated I/Os (labelled by name in PT's I/O setup), so you just call up the piece you want (just like a plug-in)...

For more info, try here click

[Albert]

I did something similar a while back with my digital mixers, MOTU audio interfaces, and DP. All my outboard was connected to the interfaces and could be called up like a plugin from within DP. Not really that hard to do if you have interfaces with enough I/O, and the routing flexibility is tremendous. If you have a PT setup with enough physical I/O's you could easily set something like this up.

I have things set up a little differently now, and am still using a hybrid analog/digital studio design. I've just gone more analog with it than before.

[Nick E]

Thanks Blackcatdigi

Looks as simple as about $75K.........and then start buying the outboard.

"Real" plug-ins just started looking like really good value:-(

[TonyBelmont]

Yeah... It's very easy to set something like this up. All you need is enough I/O on your PT system.

[TonyBelmont]

It's also easier and less expensive to do something like that in Nuendo/ Cubase.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by blackcatdigi
With a 32 fader Icon D-Control, PT HD/7, (3)192s, and (6)96 I/Os.

All the outboard has dedicated I/Os (labelled by name in PT's I/O setup), so you just call up the piece you want (just like a plug-in)...

For more info, try here click

This situation doesn't work for someone who mixes on an analog console.

Also going through the A/D's and D/A's doesn't help.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by zimv20
surely i'm not the only one.

No Zimv you are the only one.

Especially when doing a mix that involves more than a hundred patch cables.

[junior]

Originally posted by TonyBelmont
It's also easier and less expensive to do something like that in Nuendo/ Cubase.

you mean with sx3's external fx plugin? have you had good experiences with it? how do you have your outboard connected?

thanks in advance...

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by TonyBelmont
Yeah... It's very easy to set something like this up. All you need is enough I/O on your PT system.

What about chains of analog gear, that would have to go through several DA/AD -conversions in this scenario?

[SnakeCained]

I could do this in Nuendo and thought about permanently wiring things in but decided against it as I like my bantam patchbay too much!

[jeronimo]

Well, if you have Cubase SX3 or Nuendo 3 (that compensates for DAAD) then you don´t need anything else...
I don´t know if PT HD compensates for conversion... does it?

[blackcatdigi]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
This situation doesn't work for someone who mixes on an analog console.

Why not? If you want the recall and have the I/O it works just like it does with the Icon. Of course you would probably just insert analog at the console. Either way it would still work.

Also going through the A/D's and D/A's doesn't help.

Thrill, aren't you knittpicking here?

I think we would both agree that the hardware would still sound better (than plugs) even considering the conversion 2 step...

Now, I don't know if I'd want to run say, a lead vocal through (5) inserts (with the additional 10 conversions)... Personally, I'd break out the old patch cables for multiple chains.

But, this is no 'poor man's' setup; I'm sure he basks in his luxury!

[blackcatdigi]

Originally posted by TonyBelmont
It's also easier and less expensive to do something like that in Nuendo/ Cubase.

It can certainly be less expensive.

But why would it be easier? I don't think it gets much easier than PT6's setup, but then I'm unfamiliar with N/C...

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by jeronimo
Well, if you have Cubase SX3 or Nuendo 3 (that compensates for DAAD) then you don´t need anything else...
I don´t know if PT HD compensates for conversion... does it?

Compensates for conversion???
That'd be nice
PT sure does compensate for delays due to conversion...

[grahluk]

I think his post was a fancy way of saying everything is hooked up to protools. That is unless he does have some sort of programmable patchbay scenario. Zsys stuff for AES. I don't know what for analog. SSL used to have software controlled patchbays for their early digital consoles. I have a strong feeling nothing that exotic or complex is going on here. Of course everything normalled to PT I/O and conveniently labelled puts it all in reach and recallable from within protools. I agree with the other posts. It's fine for one item or a chain of AES outboard but a chain of analog would have me grabbing for patchcords rather than all that conversion. Mark that part of their ad as hype.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally posted by blackcatdigi
It can certainly be less expensive.

But why would it be easier? I don't think it gets much easier than PT6's setup, but then I'm unfamiliar with N/C...

As a long time PT user, believe me it is easier in Cubase/ Nuendo.....

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by TonyBelmont
As a long time PT user, believe me it is easier in Cubase/ Nuendo.....

Interesting...
In what way is it easier than PT?
What's more to it than just ins/outs and labels?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally posted by Stargazer
Interesting...
In what way is it easier than PT?
What's more to it than just ins/outs and labels?

You set everything up once, then you just have that piece of outboard as a plugin in the plug in folder. It's a more simplified process, which requires only 1 click as opposed to 3 or 4 within PT....

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by blackcatdigi
Why not? If you want the recall and have the I/O it works just like it does with the Icon. Of course you would probably just insert analog at the console. Either way it would still work.



Thrill, aren't you knittpicking here?

I think we would both agree that the hardware would still sound better (than plugs) even considering the conversion 2 step...

Now, I don't know if I'd want to run say, a lead vocal through (5) inserts (with the additional 10 conversions)... Personally, I'd break out the old patch cables for multiple chains.

But, this is no 'poor man's' setup; I'm sure he basks in his luxury!

Knittpicking?

Hey its always about the best sound alright?

I mix on an SSL and once i make the conversion into analog i want to stay there till the end.

The only time i step into the digital world when mixing is when in corporating effects or at the final stage.

Also there will be latencies involved that are not dealt with when mixing on a console.

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by TonyBelmont
You set everything up once, then you just have that piece of outboard as a plugin in the plug in folder. It's a more simplified process, which requires only 1 click as opposed to 3 or 4 within PT....

Once you've set it up in PT, it's in the plug-in folder...
Just out of interest, what 3-4 clicks?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally posted by Stargazer

Once you've set it up in PT, it's in the plug-in folder...
Just out of interest, what 3-4 clicks?

That's new, when did they add that? It doesn't do that in version 6.4

If they did add it to the plugin folder, then that's great.. how does PT calculate the delay of the outboard gear?? Cubase/ Nuendo does it all in one click (well I guess 2 the first time you set it up).

[chadly]

Originally posted by TonyBelmont
That's new, when did they add that? It doesn't do that in version 6.4

If they did add it to the plugin folder, then that's great.. how does PT calculate the delay of the outboard gear?? Cubase/ Nuendo does it all in one click (well I guess 2 the first time you set it up).

I know it's in 6.2. You set up an insert in the I/O screen. I have one for my Avalon and Neve where I work. . . After doing that it appears in the plugin part of the channel strip under i/o. (I'm not at the studio right now, so this might be slightly inaccurate. It does work, I used it this morning!)

My question is this: Does PT 6.4+ compensate for D/A A/D latency? I know it does plugs, but I'm not using 6.4 yet to have tested it. How does it know what the i/o latency is? I know that Apogee stuff has a different latency then the PT I/O stuff. . .

"You set everything up once, then you just have that piece of outboard as a plugin in the plug in folder. It's a more simplified process, which requires only 1 click as opposed to 3 or 4 within PT...."

I am pretty sure seting up an i/o in PT is one click.
It is on my LE rig.



D

[C.Lambrechts]

Originally posted by TonyBelmont
You set everything up once, then you just have that piece of outboard as a plugin in the plug in folder. It's a more simplified process, which requires only 1 click as opposed to 3 or 4 within PT....

As a fellow long time Protools user I'm pretty sure it has been in there since the very very beginning of tdm ages ago. an insert is 1 click. when you click an insert you have the choice between going to your plugins or going to you I/O. The hardware inserts are in the I/O .... allways have been. nothing new. If you name a specific insert say tubetech, you'll allways find it right there. 1 click.

[spacewars]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
This situation doesn't work for someone who mixes on an analog console.

Also going through the A/D's and D/A's doesn't help.

I've been set up this way for about 7 years.
I never had a conventional analog patchbay-
everything was always normalled into I/O pairs on PT, and still is. The whole notion of "degrading" the sound by going through the A/D and D/A stages is a non-issue; Any degradation taking place is far outweighed in the positive column if you're inserting analog outboard that actually does something good to the sound. It's a vastly convenient way to work- a lot less recall time and headache than dealing with a patchbay. The only
real issue currently for me is the lack of ADC on Mix hardware. While it's not as cool as having an actual SSL or Neve/Flying Faders situation from a hands-on mix standpoint, it is a powerful system which allows a lot of interesting routing and processing possibilities...

[blackcatdigi]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Knittpicking?

Hey its always about the best sound alright?

I mix on an SSL and once i make the conversion into analog i want to stay there till the end.

The only time i step into the digital world when mixing is when in corporating effects or at the final stage.

Yes, Knittpicking.

Sorry, I guess my little winking, pipe-smoking smilie didn't convey the proper 'tongue-in-cheekness' that I was implying... Such is the internet.

It is always about the best sound.
Don't misunderstand me; I'm not advocating multiple conversions from an analog mixer (especially when you could just lean over and patch, analog), just stating that it would and does indeed "work".

You posted it would not work on an analog console. It will. Its not ideal when mixing analog, I agree. But work it does, nontheless.

Also there will be latencies involved that are not dealt with when mixing on a console.

I'm not following your wording; Do you mean to say that you do not have to deal with latencies when mixing analog, or that mixing analog will affect how latency issues are dealt with?