Grand Piano or Virtual Piano?? Who Has Both???

[puuluu]

Best in sampled grand piano at the moment : http://www.soundsonline.com/EastWest...pr-EW-171.html

[gpiccolini]

...if you´re a half decent player it can`t be compared by any means... even a half decent vertical can blow the best samples out of the water IMHO.


...and for the friend that theorizes about a recorded piano becoming a sampled piano... well: I bet you´re not a piano player to say the least . Nice trying, but still I hold my opinion.

[AB3]

i respectfully disagree. There is no way that the Garritan Steinway does not sound better than a mediocre upright piano.

Originally Posted by gpiccolini

...if you´re a half decent player it can`t be compared by any means... even a half decent vertical can blow the best samples out of the water IMHO.


...and for the friend that theorizes about a recorded piano becoming a sampled piano... well: I bet you´re not a piano player to say the least . Nice trying, but still I hold my opinion.

[philosi]

We have an early 80's Yamaha C3 and it records wonderfully. Comparing a virtual to a real piano is kinda crazy. Just as crazy as a classical guitar patch to a real nylon string guitar.

A piano is a musical instrument.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by gpiccolini

...if you´re a half decent player it can`t be compared by any means... even a half decent vertical can blow the best samples out of the water IMHO.

I strongly agree with the first half, and in my experience it's entirely true, and true every time. The complexity of a performance on a real piano isn't possible with samples. Play a single note on a piano and a single note with Ivory and they will sound very close. It stops there.

I'm not sure about the second half. I've never recorded an upright.

[theother]

I just did a couple of tests again to see if my upright (Pleyel) could be replaced by samples.

I have almost all the sample pianos. EWQL Pianos, Ivory, Vienna Imperial, etc.

They all suck even compared to my upright piano.

They sound dead, boring and lifeless. I knew within 10 sec I don´t like it. I bought a Roland RD700GX weighted keyboard just to play the sampled pianos. It helps to improve the playing but not the tone.

I use old small condenser tube Neumann´s for the upright and the tone is nothing short of amazing I get out of it. Sounds almost like a grand.

[jjblair]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Hey, I too admire the art of a true grand piano. Hell, any piano. The wood, the the feel, the soundboard and all the interactions that produces...

BUT, GIVE ME A BREAK GUYS! I bet you almost ANYTHING the lot of you could not reliably tell the difference in a blind test mix.

A solo piece is another matter (even then, some will be fooled).

-a

The problem I find with sampled piano, and I always hear it, is the lack of correct sympathetic string vibration. Nobody plays without the pedal engaged, and when the felts are off the strings, every combination of notes is going to have a different sympathetic tone to it, that they could not possibly recreate with our current hardware.

My best friend has all sample libraries for movie scoring. He has Ivory in all that, and I can hear the difference when he plays me a mock up score.

But most importantly, no midi controller really feels the same as a piano. I mean, if you are doing piano based stuff, and you are a really good piano player, you want to play a real piano. It's like a Hammond. You can do something that kinda sounds like it, but you ned the interaction of the real thing, if you are a real Hammond player.

The other drawback to not having a real piano is now you are limited to how somebody else thinks the thing should be mic'd, or how it should sound. Depending on the material, I'll use different mic combinations, or different mic techniques, that best suit the track. I played with the Ivory demo at NAMM, and it just didn't give me the options that I would want.

BTW, to whoever was going to buy the C7, make sure you buy one made after the mid '90s with the wider body. You would not believe how much better than sound than the narrower ones. When I bought mine, it was side by side with a narrower one, and you could hear the $10k difference between the two. Wasn't even close.

[trauha]

Originally Posted by jjblair

But most importantly, no midi controller really feels the same as a piano. I mean, if you are doing piano based stuff, and you are a really good piano player, you want to play a real piano.

Exactly! Even if the software could be made to sound similar to the real thing, the *pianist* will always sound better on the real thing, because it will inspire the player do things that the fake wouldn't. And how many gigabytes would it take to have just different mic and mic placement options on the software, not to mention things like bleed from drums :-)

[RKrizman]

I have both. If I'm scoring a cue for a soap opera I use Ivory. If I'm tracking an original song I use the C7.

-R

[piano]

The Garritan Steinway sample recordings sound fairly good.

This may be as good as it gets for sampled pianos. WHY?:

Well....
1) Midi only has 127 levels of volume. Most if not all keyboards really can not even offer the player even THAT level of control and accuracy over notes.

2) HOW you strike the note (quick or slow) has a profound difference on the sound. This is something that the physical keyboards do not even have the ability to do. Perhaps someday - but the tool up and testing would be at great cost.

3) Every time you lift the pedal you get a "bloom" - sympathetic vibrations of the strings. This is only starting to be models and on a fairly unrefined level. Again, the tool up and testing would be at great cost.

So enjoy! A real piano will be out of range for computer emulation for some time ---- at least until keyboards are significantly improved (laser technology?) and MIDI spec are greatly increased in resolution.

Besides - a real piano is just so amazing - no speakers, no electricity.

[piano]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

We have a 5' "Hardman" from the 40's... I've heard no software that even begins to compare to the real thing.

As always, YMMV.

Peace.

Perhaps because that dinky 5' Hardman sounded like crap - emulation software just can't sound that bad. Ya, you bet your ass YMMV on that one.

Joshin ya there Fletcher.

[Melgueil]

Not even close. Had been using Ivory in the Studio for a while. Went to the local piano store (a real one). Sat down at a 50,000 euro Steinway (a real one).

Brought me right back to reality. To me for solo and or jazz duo etc, it's night and day - in particular from the performer's perspective. Sampled piano -buried in a mix, yeah, maybe, but it doesn't substitute for the real thing.

Cdlt

[Johns]

Most things we do today (samples, editing, etc) is because it's easier not better. Simplicity and ease wins most times.

You can go to Home Depot and buy synthetic crown molding for your living room and it's easy, cheap, and quick. Go to a well maintained old house and look closely at the molding. No comparison, but that took time.

I'm not saying synthetic is bad. Hell I use it. But I am not kidding myself into thinking it's better.

[Crowdnoise]

I have a 1943 Steinway (New York). I also have pretty much every piano library under the sun.

It's funny, when we are doing mockups of a piece using the samples, we always find a way to convince ourselves that they are acceptable for the final. That is, until we finally hear a couple of bars on the real thing.

And yes, it's true that it's all in the hands (and feet). If I had to choose between a decent player on the grand or Randy Kerber on the samples, it would be tough, but I can't say I wouldn't choose the samples. Not saying I would either, but it would be a fight.

[DONNX]

I haven't come across anything that beats the real thing. Piano or cowbell. I accept emulations/samples as emulations/samples. And use them accordingly.

[syra]

For me the biggest difference is resonance. It brings the instrument alive and its something I have yet to hear from a sample no matter how good it is.

[StudioKing]

I always track with a grand piano at other studios, if I had the chance to get my own grand at my studio I would happily put all my sampled piano sounds in the trash and never think about them again.