mid/high end consoles with unbalanced inserts and direct outs?

Dirty Gear Pimp · 29th July 2008

hi all

so im wondering...did any older mid to high end consoles--like from the 70s and 80s and early 90s---have unbalanced inserts and/or direct outs ? specifically older neoteks, tridents (like the 80b 65, 75, etc) older ssl 4000, 6000, api 1604, mci, mta, amek, etc?

i mostly work on newer consoles and know stuff on the bottom end of the market usually have inserts that are unbalanced (split on a trs plug) and sometimes direct outs that are unbalanced. and the higher end consoles i work on are all balanced inserts in/out and direct outs that are balanced.

any info would be appriciated.

drBill · 29th July 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Gear Pimp

hi all

so im wondering...did any older mid to high end consoles--like from the 70s and 80s and early 90s---have unbalanced inserts and/or direct outs ? specifically older neoteks, tridents (like the 80b 65, 75, etc) older ssl 4000, 6000, api 1604, mci, mta, amek, etc?

i mostly work on newer consoles and know stuff on the bottom end of the market usually have inserts that are unbalanced (split on a trs plug) and sometimes direct outs that are unbalanced. and the higher end consoles i work on are all balanced inserts in/out and direct outs that are balanced.

any info would be appriciated.

In the 90's, (and earlier) many mid level consoles - Soundcraft, D&R, Otari, Amek, etc. had unbalanced inserts. This is very common. Most of the consoles I owned had balanced direct outs though.... Usually electronically balanced.

audioboy6 · 2nd August 2008

Many Neoteks had unbalanced everything, except mic inputs. Some had optional balanced inputs and/or outputs. But I've never heard of them having balanced inserts or direct outs, however I'm sure some did since all Neoteks where custom ordered.

I have two series 1's from the mid 80's that have balanced mic and line inputs but everything else is unbalanced.

jared

subspace · 2nd August 2008

The Tridents you listed mostly had unbalanced sends and direct outs with balanced returns. They could be ordered with optional transformers to balance the outputs, while the return was electronically balanced.

Fletcher · 2nd August 2008

I'm like 90% positive the inserts on SSL's were unbalanced as were most consoles from the time period. I believe 80 Series Trident's inserts as well as Neotek's were also unbalanced but the direct outs on all were indeed balanced [if I remember correctly with differential circuits as opposed to transformers].

Interestingly, the inserts on SSL's sound WAY better if you use a 600 ohm to 600 ohm transformer box on the way in an out of the inserts [only having a half a dozen of those I rarely used the inserts on SSL's prefering to do the bulk of my patching on the "channel line in" point].

Hope this is of some assistance.

Peace.

kats · 2nd August 2008

Yeah I think Fletcher is right - most consoles had unbalanced inserts, but balanced direct outs. Not sure of the point of balancing inserts anyhow.

Oh PS - on the newer Neoteks the only thing unbalanced on the strips are the the inserts. In the master section all the CR outs, 2 mix sends and returns, and aux sends are unbalanced. The 2 mix out is ordered balanced or unbalanced.

29th July 2008	#1
Dirty Gear Pimp Gear maniac Joined: Jan 2006 Location: Otown Posts: 260 Thread Starter	mid/high end consoles with unbalanced inserts and direct outs? hi all so im wondering...did any older mid to high end consoles--like from the 70s and 80s and early 90s---have unbalanced inserts and/or direct outs ? specifically older neoteks, tridents (like the 80b 65, 75, etc) older ssl 4000, 6000, api 1604, mci, mta, amek, etc? i mostly work on newer consoles and know stuff on the bottom end of the market usually have inserts that are unbalanced (split on a trs plug) and sometimes direct outs that are unbalanced. and the higher end consoles i work on are all balanced inserts in/out and direct outs that are balanced. any info would be appriciated. __________________ I'm not a crack head... Just a gear junky.

2nd August 2008	#4
subspace Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Too sun Posts: 860 2 Reviews written	The Tridents you listed mostly had unbalanced sends and direct outs with balanced returns. They could be ordered with optional transformers to balance the outputs, while the return was electronically balanced. __________________ "If you never did, you should. These things are fun and fun is good."

2nd August 2008	#5
Fletcher member no 666 Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 10,108	I'm like 90% positive the inserts on SSL's were unbalanced as were most consoles from the time period. I believe 80 Series Trident's inserts as well as Neotek's were also unbalanced but the direct outs on all were indeed balanced [if I remember correctly with differential circuits as opposed to transformers]. Interestingly, the inserts on SSL's sound WAY better if you use a 600 ohm to 600 ohm transformer box on the way in an out of the inserts [only having a half a dozen of those I rarely used the inserts on SSL's prefering to do the bulk of my patching on the "channel line in" point]. Hope this is of some assistance. Peace. __________________ CN Fletcher Professional Affiliations: R/E/P Professional Recording Engineer and Producer forums - serious hobbyists welcome SoundPure.com mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33 We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid Roscoe Ambel once said: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light

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2nd August 2008	#3
audioboy6 Gear maniac Joined: Nov 2004 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 151	Many Neoteks had unbalanced everything, except mic inputs. Some had optional balanced inputs and/or outputs. But I've never heard of them having balanced inserts or direct outs, however I'm sure some did since all Neoteks where custom ordered. I have two series 1's from the mid 80's that have balanced mic and line inputs but everything else is unbalanced. jared

2nd August 2008	#6
kats Lives for gear Joined: May 2005 Posts: 3,684	Yeah I think Fletcher is right - most consoles had unbalanced inserts, but balanced direct outs. Not sure of the point of balancing inserts anyhow. Oh PS - on the newer Neoteks the only thing unbalanced on the strips are the the inserts. In the master section all the CR outs, 2 mix sends and returns, and aux sends are unbalanced. The 2 mix out is ordered balanced or unbalanced.