2 ch. AD/DA for 2k - anything worth buying?

[Purusha]

I am thinking to upgrade my studio maybe with adding a nice 2 channel tracking converter which could be used also for DA on vocals when doing OTB or mastering.

I am using a Creamware A16Ultra for OTB which is not bad but since most tracking is done through one channel only I could maybe add a better AD. What do you think guys?

Is there anything good out there for 2k$ worth upgrading my Creamware?

Also I would like to keep my set up as it is and just add a light pipe to the new AD/DA without adding some PCI cards in my PC. Possible?

BTW, I have tons of hi end outboard (just to let you know) so no need to upgrade this field at the moment.

[Snatchman]

Rosetta 200 ?.....

[Stephen Pruitt]

I'm quite fond of my Lucid AD9624 and DA9624 pair.

Stephen

[mistaD]

I think you can grab a lavry black AD and DA for about $2,400!

[mixerguy]

apogee rosetta 200

[Purusha]

I wonder how the Rosetta compares to Lucid AD9624 or Mytek. And specially how would it compare to my Creamware converters. But I guess very few know about the Creamware quality...

[Infa]

I agree with mistaD, IF YOU CAN, spend a touch more ($2,400-$2,600) and get a Lavry Blue or Black configured in the way you want. That would be the best quality conversion you could get for the money range. But keep in mind Lavry can not do the "lightpipe" configuring you are trying to do... As far as digital, Lavry's only have AES and Word Clock BNC outs

BUT if $2,000 really is the max that you can spend no matter what, including tax, etc... Then I HAVE to put another vote in for the Rosetta 200. It is just too good for the money range it is in. PLUS it will do ALL the "lightpipe" configuring you want to do right out the box, plus alot MORE!! True it is not the best converter out there, but for what it does and how it sounds, it is the best in its price range IMO, and it is of a higher quality and sound, etc.. than your current Creamware conversion. Plus it has several really nice features that are actually usable, like the CODA thing, etc..

The Rosetta 200 is in a higher end league than the Creamware converter you got. - (IMO) - I don't want to start any arguments here, so I will leave it short, my mom always told me if I had nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all,,,, SO I will say nothing about Creamware conversion. Get the picture ? Creamware conversion is ok (and even at that, just OK) for conversion on a budget, but even then I say there are better choices.

So, I will guarantee you that you will like the Rosetta 200 better than your Creamware converter (sound/quality wise anyway). BUT I will guarantee you that you would LOVE the Lavry's over the Rosetta 200's sound/quality. Therefore the Lavry's would just be dfegad all over your current Creamware conversion. lol --

BUT I will tell you this about your other question, asking how the Rosetta 200 compares to the Lucids or Mytek will start a huge debate over here LOL -- So I have to say this carefully, In my personal taste and experience I feel Lucid and Mytek are roughly comparable to the Rosetta 200 and vice versa.. Kind of a personal taste thing maybe there. Mytek though you will need to get a expansion card for it to do the "Lightpipe" that you want. The Lucid and Rosetta 200 will do it out the box. If you want a 2 channel AD/DA unit, the Rosetta 200 is exactly that with ALL your wants. The Lucid and Myteks, you will have to get the 8 Channel units to get AD/DA.

As far as specs, it goes Mytek, Rosetta 200, then Lucid. But besides all that white paper they are all pretty equivalent. They all kick down a different nuance that may appeal differently to each and every person. Like I said before though, due to ALL issues addressed, I still say the Rosetta 200 for the 2k budget. Or the Lavry's if you can go a little over and deal with AES connections.

All IMO, hope it helps somewhat.

[Purusha]

Are we talking about the Lavry 44-96 with modular blue series A/D/A?

Would I need a Big Ben with such converters to get the most out of it?

[Infa]

Originally Posted by Purusha

Are we talking about the Lavry 44-96 with modular blue series A/D/A?

Would I need a Big Ben with such converters to get the most out of it?

Not really, you don't need it. Splitting hairs there. Lavry clocks are damn good. And yes, that is "Lavry Blue" I was talking about. They are excellent units for the price. You can configure them how you want. (1AD/1DA - 2AD - 2DA, etc..)
Hell, if you were to spend the money on a Lavry PLUS a Big Ben, I would get Apogee 16x's then and call it a day. Cause then you get 16 channels. You currently are working with 8 right ?

IMO

[GYang]

Originally Posted by Purusha

Are we talking about the Lavry 44-96 with modular blue series A/D/A?

Would I need a Big Ben with such converters to get the most out of it?

No, definitely not.
I use Big Ben with Rosetta 200 (arguably givin some minor benefits) and Lavry works the best clocked by its own.
Lavry Blue will enable you to use up to 8ch in one 1U rack.
Apogee might be better choice if you do mostly rock or similar genres where slight sonic imprint of Apogee converters is often just a right thing.

[Purusha]

Originally Posted by Infa

Not really, you don't need it. Splitting hairs there. Lavry clocks are damn good. And yes, that is "Lavry Blue" I was talking about. They are excellent units for the price. You can configure them how you want. (1AD/1DA - 2AD - 2DA, etc..)
Hell, if you were to spend the money on a Lavry PLUS a Big Ben, I would get Apogee 16x's then and call it a day. Cause then you get 16 channels. You currently are working with 8 right ?

IMO

I have 16 IN/OUT Creamware which I don't complain about as my outboard gives me really great results in my mixes.
But I am aware that there is always room for improvement.
I do more rock and metal stuff but would not mind using more clean converters.

[Purusha]

Infa, if I got this right, the new black Lavry has the lightpipe option... so for more money this might be the kick ass solution, right?

Thanks!

[Goldfish]

I would personally go for the Mytek A/D and D/A units. If you get them both you'll end up around 2100. Very very good converters. If you don't need more than 96k on the A/D it's an even better deal, around 1800 for both.

[Purusha]

Originally Posted by Goldfish

I would personally go for the Mytek A/D and D/A units. If you get them both you'll end up around 2100. Very very good converters. If you don't need more than 96k on the A/D it's an even better deal, around 1800 for both.

Doesn't sound bad. 96k is plenty for me, I work on 44.1k normally. What about clocking and connection options?

[Infa]

Originally Posted by Purusha

Infa, if I got this right, the new black Lavry has the lightpipe option... so for more money this might be the kick ass solution, right?

Thanks!

Ultimately YES, you are right the Lavry Blacks have Lightpipe. But the "Blacks" (AD10's/DA10's) are either AD or DA units, so again with this option you will have to buy both AD and DA units IF indeed you are looking for both AD and DA. That would put you at around $2,500. But another thing I should mention is, the Lavry Black series is Lavry's lowest end option. So they are not near the Lavry Blue as far as superior sound and quality. BUT IMO (remember this is just my taste) the Lavry Blacks would sound better than the Myteks, Lucid, and Rosetta 200.

Purusha, there is just so much more to know in detail about what you want before I could really go further in suggestions because at the Lavry Blacks, Mytek, Lucid, and Rosetta 200 stages it is going to get more down to what you need and what you are looking for.

I know you described some of this in the threads name and your first post, but I am getting confused here a bit as to what you really want/need. Let me ask you this, and you also ask yourself this, answer it thinking about the long run and every possible scenario in the equation as well.:

#1 - Do you need AD, or DA, or Both ?

#2 - ** this is a important one, because I could suggestion alot of other alternatives that may be better in the long run here and better for your music.** How many channels of IN do you really want/need ? and How many channels of OUT do you really want/need ? Like... How is only 2 channels going to improve your sound really ? Do you want to ultimately replace the Creamware ? If so, how many simultaneous channels total would you want to have ideally (like how many does your console take or your whatever ? And not ideally, how many could you get by on minimal if you did replace the Creamware ?

#3 - Think about the set up of your room, and looks you are going for, IS a rack mount unit better for you ? Or no ? Or doesn't matter ? Is having 2 units ok with you ? How many RU spaces is available, etc..

Now obviously if you do replace the Creamware question 1 is answered because you really will need both AD and DA then.

You need to ask yourself, what am I expecting to "improve" on here ? How much "improvement" am I wanting ? Therefore, what really is the best thing to do with my money ?

What I'm getting at is, what so many people make a mistake in doing is, they save a little bit of money, then want to go get something that really isn't going to do that much in their set up. Plus then are stuck with a unit that does not help them with expanding on that. If you got this 2 channel mediocre converter, then one day got some more money and was thinking about upgrading ALL your channels correctly with even better conversion than your "new" 2 channel converter, it's like you just ultimately wasted money. And the worse part about it is it was for not that much of a improvement for that short amount of time you did have it.

BUT if people just waited, and saved more money, and then did a one time fatal swoop of improvement, they end up getting ALOT more bang for their buck in the long run PLUS a extreme difference of improvement to their sound in ONE motion.

The summary is this:

If you were ONLY working with 2 channels at a time max and/or could get by doing that then YES, this purchase could really make a noticeable difference in your sound. If you use your set up the way I am thinking you do, then it is NOT going to change much at all. Except for tracking IN 1 to 2 channels at a time because this will effect your recorded sound. In that case you really only need a good AD (Lavry Blue would knock'em dead). And skip the DA.

Adding that to the equation, but pending on your answer of how many channels IN do you really want/need:

The best thing to do is wait IMO, I mean dude, if you saved $2,000 now, that means you can do it again, and then again, etc... $2,000 saved 3.5 times and you could get what is to me (IMO) the best bang for the best conversion you can get buck in the price range 1 Apogee AD16x and 1 Apogee DA16x. Then you have 16 channels IN and OUT all of the same and all a extreme upgrade to anything even suggested here so far (except the Blues - to me it would be like getting 16 channels of the Lavry Blue quality - IMO)... The best thing about them too is they are very easily configured to anything. They have expansion cards that let the unit grow with you pending on what DAW you use in the future, etc..

Even better if you could narrow down how many channels of IN can you get by on, and how many OUTS, etc.. Because if you are like me, you need less IN's than OUT's. Then you could save money by getting a 2 Lavry Blue for AD, and get the 16x DA for your outs.

Doing that same thing there are even more options. I just think in that money range the 16x's would be best noticeable quality difference but that is just MY taste. But you could save up even less money and get the Aurora 16 which is a upgrade from what you got (by about to the Mytek, Lucid, and Rosetta level).. The Aurora16 has 16 ins and outs and is like 3k !!

I would STOP, and think about all this. And if I knew your exact workflow better, and your real wants and needs and plans for the future, then I could help even more.

[adamcal]

Originally Posted by Goldfish

I would personally go for the Mytek A/D and D/A units. If you get them both you'll end up around 2100. Very very good converters. If you don't need more than 96k on the A/D it's an even better deal, around 1800 for both.

I went with the myteks and have been very happy. the ad96 has AES on an XLR, spdif a RCA, spdif on a optical which can also be Adat, and a wordclock out on BNC. So 4 ways to clock from it

The da96 also has 4 inputs.

I have 36 in/out of motu hd192 and like your plan, I use the myteks as my "main" channels, whenever overdubbing, mixing itb and as the master clock. It does make a nice diference.

[Purusha]

Infa, OK let me try to narrow down my working platform and wishes.

#1&2 If I think in a long run I would really wish to have a super nice 2AD and super nice 16DA.
Or at least super nice 2AD and super nice 2DA which would be used for mastering. For OTB mixing
I could still use these along with my 16 mediocre Creamware DA. I use Midas Venice160 for OTB mix
so I need only 16DAs. Combined with my outboard gear I am already getting very serious production results.

So my needs come down to a super nice 16DA and 2AD all in all. I always record drums in a bigger studio
with tape machine and 16AD Apogee converters. I mentioned 2k cause I don't want to behave like a gear slut again.
I can spend more but don't know if it's worth it.

CHECK THIS and tell me if my studio really needs new ADDA for 2-3k$

#3 I am about to build a new house with nice studio in it so rack space will not be a problem. I am more concerned
that If I build a professional looking studio with a lot of hi-end outboard gear than Creamware converters won't fit
in the big picture anymore. You know how it goes, if you want bigger clients, you need gear with bigger names on it

[Chris]

You can also get a UA 2192 used around $2300. There's one in the for sale section now.

[thermos]

Or a used Hedd for around that price (just a little over).

[lozion]

Originally Posted by Chris

You can also get a UA 2192 used around $2300. There's one in the for sale section now.

Yup, with the added benefit of having multiple WC outs.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Infa

Ultimately YES, you are right the Lavry Blacks have Lightpipe. But the "Blacks" (AD10's/DA10's) are either AD or DA units, so again with this option you will have to buy both AD and DA units IF indeed you are looking for both AD and DA. That would put you at around $2,500. But another thing I should mention is, the Lavry Black series is Lavry's lowest end option. So they are not near the Lavry Blue as far as superior sound and quality. BUT IMO (remember this is just my taste) the Lavry Blacks would sound better than the Myteks, Lucid, and Rosetta 200.

This is simply not true.... the black units are just as good as the Blue.

I have them all.

[jayfrigo]

Lavry blue and Lavry black are both very good, and very similar. Neither is really clearly superior to the other, so it comes down to which features you require or prefer.

As to clocking, don't use a master clock (a la Big Ben etc.) with a Lavry, unless you're doing something like syncing to video. Best performance will be set to internal.

[mistaD]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

This is simply not true.... the black units are just as good as the Blue.

I have them all.

lol you beat me to it....... From most people who have heard them side by side they say there pretty much the same and if any unit is actually better.... shockingly its the Blacks!

[rlg]

Another satisfied Mytek stereo ADC and DAC user here. thumbsup

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by mistaD

lol you beat me to it....... From most people who have heard them side by side they say there pretty much the same and if any unit is actually better.... shockingly its the Blacks!

The reports I've heard, when there are any real preferences, are about 50/50 which I can't say is statistically significant. In the end, listen side by side and see for yourself which you prefer, and if you can't do that, in this case it's probably not the end of the world since they are so close.

[Infa]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

This is simply not true.... the black units are just as good as the Blue.

I have them all.

Hmmm... very strange - From my experience the Blacks don't have the dynamic depth feel that I heard from the Blues... if this is the case, then there is SOMETHING going on different inside the units. Something.

I will admit it might just be me and my imagination though, a real true realist has to accept this, and I do. But sorry Tony, I have to stick by what I heard and felt from them 2 units. I did notice a difference, and to me the Blue had slightly better dynamic depth feel (like 3D'ness if you know what I mean). But they did both play off the low ends and highs relatively the same. I kinda felt the Black got a SLIGHT bit more grainy with the highs when hit hard... IMO remember. Plus keep in mind I do not own both and have them by my side at all times. Plus I should admit that the word "superior" should not have been used (sorry), because they are pretty close in my ears as well... And either way Purusher, with them units you couldn't go wrong and I am totally splitting hairs here man I admit. Just my miles is all and "others may vary".

Originally Posted by thermos

Or a used Hedd for around that price (just a little over).

I will tell you the truth, I really like this idea too. I just never like to suggest used gear.(warranties, etc..) - But the unit is great !!

Originally Posted by Purusha

Infa, OK let me try to narrow down my working platform and wishes.

***See his above post for details***

Ok, first off Purusha, you are getting some great suggestions and info from all the folks posting in this thread. I by no means think my suggestion(s) or taste of opinions should be taken any more seriously than anyone else nor do I think they are better...

With that said, and from your narrowed down answer post you just put up and from the posted Music you asked me to listen to, my honest well thought out suggestion would be this: I have 2 suggestions:

1 would be this.... Especially with you about to build up a new studio from the ground up I really honestly think you do NOT need anything right now. Especially by getting only 2 channels out of 18 that you like to use total, it just will not give your music (that I already hear is sounding great) that much more at the end of the day.. period. You are already doing fine man !! It would be a waste of money and you wont justify the sound difference in my opinion right now.

You mentioned at the end of the day you really need 16 outs and 2 ins (I like that !! BTW)(and ultimately they should be of the best quality you can afford) - IMO you should SAVE your money, keep making that great sounding music you do for now, build up your place and new studio. When your done ditch that Creamware, and pick up a real nice 16 channel DA and a real nice 2 Channel AD. And then your cool. You will notice a difference from that jump and yes it will make sense financially and the timing is better IMO...

What them two units should be will depend on your budget for them then, not now. Don't even think about.

Summary is:

It won't make hardly one bit of difference in your music now to make a quarter of a jump in conversion quality and channels. WAIT and make a FULL jump later to really notice the difference of quality by changing all your channels of conversion and their quality.

But......

Suggestion 2 would be this....... In light of ALL I said above, if you really feel like spending your money now,,, then get one piece of gear from the plan above right now. Get the best quality 2 channel AD you can for the money. SKIP the DA part and you should be able to get pretty damn good quality 2 channel AD conversion. Then you could use it NOW and later. Once you get into the new studio just get a real good 16 channel DA, and then you got it all locked.

But for me I like suggestion 1 more. Because it would give you time to decide on some real good units man. And demo like crazy. And you never know, some new converters may come out between now and then too, giving you more options, etc..

Purusha, remember though, this is just what I would do. And it is just in my opinion what would be the most logical. You really should go with your gut and do what you think you should do. Take all these suggestions from everyone here and come up with one good one for yourself. And in all seriousness no matter what/when you decide to get new conversion, narrow down what you may want, and then demo each unit side by side and come to a conclusion yourself which sound the best for you and your taste.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Infa

Hmmm... very strange - From my experience the Blacks don't have the dynamic depth feel that I heard from the Blues... if this is the case, then there is SOMETHING going on different inside the units. Something.

I will admit it might just be me and my imagination though, a real true realist has to accept this, and I do. But sorry Tony, I have to stick by what I heard and felt from them 2 units. I did notice a difference, and to me the Blue had slightly better dynamic depth feel (like 3D'ness if you know what I mean). But they did both play off the low ends and highs relatively the same. I kinda felt the Black got a SLIGHT bit more grainy with the highs when hit hard... IMO remember. Plus keep in mind I do not own both and have them by my side at all times. Plus I should admit that the word "superior" should not have been used (sorry), because they are pretty close in my ears as well... And either way Purusher, with them units you couldn't go wrong and I am totally splitting hairs here man I admit. Just my miles is all and "others may vary".

I own them all (fully loaded Blue rack, AD10 and DA10).... there may be an ever so slight difference in sound, but they are equally good in my experience.

I would use them interchangeably.

[wildpark]

+1

there are blue and black s n ebay

this will be a huge upgrade too your creamware

i used the card and convertor in the 90ths

really a mess and the most plugs ! ugly

man you need that lavry or benchmark units too

enjoy music again


lol

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

Lavry blue and Lavry black are both very good, and very similar. Neither is really clearly superior to the other, so it comes down to which features you require or prefer.

As to clocking, don't use a master clock (a la Big Ben etc.) with a Lavry, unless you're doing something like syncing to video. Best performance will be set to internal.

[Purusha]

Yes, after some thinking I really like the 1st suggestion from Infa.
Creamware will definitelly have to go at one point and maybe a new piece
will show up in the mean time so waiting is not such a bad idea.
The new studio will not be ready before 2010 anyway.

In the mean time I can build some more DIY gear to fill up the new racks







Thank you guys for all suggestions. If you you have any other, don't hesitate to post it

[shutterbox]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I own them all (fully loaded Blue rack, AD10 and DA10).... there may be an ever so slight difference in sound, but they are equally good in my experience.

I would use them interchangeably.

Hi Tony,

May I know if you used them with domestic hifi equipment?

I know of users in audiophile forums who listened to both, and went straight for the blue D/A as it performed better by not small a margin against the black D/A.

In these cases, the DACs were fed with CDPlayers/Transports/Soundcards(one was using a RME card).