Extremely Strange Behaviour Purple Odd EQs + Action Compressors

[siddhu]

Riddle me this:

Here's the gear list:

1 Brent Avril 6 space rack
2 Purple audio Actions
2 Purple Audio Odd Eq's

We ordered a BAE lunch box with slots 2&3 modded to allow linking of the 2 Actions.

We received a modded BAE rack instead.

We were informed it would take 6 weeks to get the lunch box, so in the meantime we decided to go ahead and use the rack.

We mounted all 4 modules into the rack and observed the following bizarre behavior:

A) The Actions did not process audio at all even though their lights were on.

B) The toggles on the Actions were effecting the leds on the Odd Eq's.

C) The bypass on the Eq's seemed to work in reverse (signal would only flow through the EQ's when Bypass buttons were pressed in and green)

We assumed it was due to a faulty mod job, so we had our dealer send us another rack (this time not modded) to use while still waiting for the portable BAE lunch box.

We put the modules into the new BAE rack, thinking our problems were solved, much to our dismay we observed similar behavior from the modules.

After spending 2.5 hours testing every possible module placement combination, this is what we know:

1) 1 Action by itself in any slot - WORKED

2) Both Actions in any slot combination including side by side- WORKED

3) 1 EQ by itself in any slot- WORKED

4) Both EQ's in any slot combination including side by side- WORKED

5) 1 Action with 2 EQ's in any combination of slots - WORKED

6) 2 Actions with 1 EQ in any combination of slots- DID NOT WORK

- No audio processed through the Actions
- Toggles on the Actions effected status light on the EQ.

7) 2 Actions with 2 Eq's in any combination- DID NOT work

- No audio processed through the Actions;
- Audio processed through the EQ's only when bypass button was pressed in and green;
- All toggles on the Actions effected the led status lights on the Eq's.


So in summary....

The only time we had a normal signal flow was when:

1) There were only 1 or 2 Actions in the rack.

2) There were only 1 or 2 Eq's in the rack.

3) There were only 1 or 2 Eq's and 1 Action in the rack.


This makes me think of Churchill's comment about Russia - "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma".

So who has a clue about what's going on?

[siddhu]

After much discussions with BAE, Chandler, and my dealer, the issue probably comes down to power supply issues.

Mark at BAE even mentioned that customers are buying their 11 rack power supply (2.5 amp) to power modules in the 6 space rack to ensure that there are no power problems with boutique modules that may not perfectly conform to the "official" 500 series spec.

So the moral of the story is buy the most powerful supply you can get if you are mixing and matching a lot of modules.

We now know that you can't run 2 Purple Actions and 2 Purple Odd eq's with the standard BAE power supply of 1.5 amps.

We are waiting for a more powerful supply which may take a few weeks and will report back when it's in.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by siddhu

After much discussions with BAE, Chandler, and my dealer, the issue probably comes down to power supply issues.

Mark at BAE even mentioned that customers are buying their 11 rack power supply (2.5 amp) to power modules in the 6 space rack to ensure that there are no power problems with boutique modules that may not perfectly conform to the "official" 500 series spec.

So the moral of the story is buy the most powerful supply you can get if you are mixing and matching a lot of modules.

We now know that you can't run 2 Purple Actions and 2 Purple Odd eq's with the standard BAE power supply of 1.5 amps.

We are waiting for a more powerful supply which may take a few weeks and will report back when it's in.

I wouldn't say that's gospel, those 4 units combined draw no where near 1.5 amps.. If it is lack of power, it's the supply that's faulty.

[siddhu]

Just posting the advice given to me by techs at BAE and Chandler.

I would assume that they really know this stuff inside out, I mean they build the stuff!

[madgansound]

I'll definitely second what Brent said - there's something else going on here; lack of power seems like a very illogical conclusion IMO. Are you speaking to the folks at Chandler, or at Purple about the problem..? Those four units collectively should barely draw 1/3 of what you're current supply is supposed to be putting out...?

[Chris]

Sounds a bit Odd.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by siddhu

Just posting the advice given to me by techs at BAE and Chandler.

I would assume that they really know this stuff inside out, I mean they build the stuff!

Yes but the problem with the 'advice' given to you, is that Purple products do conform to the power guidlines for API VPR even if they are not part of the alliance. Go look up how much they draw.. I believe it's 90ma each if I recall.

[siddhu]

So what else could be going on?

When I spoke with Mark at BAE, he really stressed that it was probably a power problem.

The same sentiment was echo'ed by Chandler's power supply guru.

I'm still waiting for a call back from Andrew at Purple to go over this with him.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by siddhu

So what else could be going on?

When I spoke with Mark at BAE, he really stressed that it was probably a power problem.

The same sentiment was echo'ed by Chandler's power supply guru.

I'm still waiting for a call back from Andrew at Purple to go over this with him.

It may well be a power problem, I'm just saying, there's no way 4 purple products would draw anywhere near what a properly working 1.5A power supply is putting out. If the ps is faulty that is one thing, but your previous post suggests it's the fault of the units for drawing too much power.

[siddhu]

This is my first foray into the 500 series so I was repeating what I was told was the problem.

And I was not "faulting" the units for drawing too much power, it was a neutral statement.

When the makers of the my BAE rack are telling me that the problem is probably due to not enough power I'm going to believe him, until I can prove otherwise through empirical testing, or someone stepping up and providing a solution that solves the problem.

I will be testing the modules with an API rack on the weekend, and then I will have another control to reference.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by siddhu

We now know that you can't run 2 Purple Actions and 2 Purple Odd eq's with the standard BAE power supply of 1.5 amps.

Originally Posted by siddhu

And I was not "faulting" the units for drawing too much power, it was a neutral statement.

Let's just hope your new power supply isn't faulty...

[DQA123]

"power supply guru"

[Brent]

Originally Posted by moracspace

Ive done some calculations with my api 6 banger.I run
1-Juggernaut pre
1-Great River
1-Action comp
1-Odd EQ
I believe im maxed as far as power consumption is concerned.I just ordered a black for the last slot.
These 500 series racks are cheap enough to justify using more than one LB.

I think you're probably more than OK.

Is your lunchbox new or old? The new ones ( since marchish of 2007) have 800ma power supplies.

This is the breakdown of your units.

Purple ODD 60mA
Purple Action 90mA
Juggernaught 75mA
GR ???

Maybe someone can chime in with the GR ma draw, but I'm guessing it's not going to put you anywhere near the top with a new lunch box.

[siddhu]

Brand new BAE 6 space rack.

[wade goeke]

Hi there-
I think you spoke with Jeremy here. I believe he was just saying that it sounded like the power supply seems suspect not that you were drawing too much current.

Your description to me sounds like a bad or low power leg.

A voltmeter would tell you instantly where your problem is or isn't. I would recommend to anyone recording that they have one around....

If its a BAE supply I would ask Mark to sent a new one or guide you through sorting it out.

Cheers
Wade

[siddhu]

Thanks Wade.

Jeremy was super helpful and knowledgeable. His input was very valuable as he explained a lot to me.

Somehow I was under the impression from him that the issue had to do with the power supply not being strong enough to drive the modules, not that the power supply was faulty. This is what Mark at BAE also suggested.

Anyway, I'm going to test the modules with an API rack and that should help clear up what is going on as I've only been able to use the modules so far with the same power supply (but different racks).

[wade goeke]

Cool man. Im sure it will all work out. Power supplies are not a big deal to fix or exchange.

Good luck.

[siddhu]

Just tested my modules with an API lunchbox and they worked flawlessly.

So it extremely likely that the problem was with the BAE power supply and/or for some reason, the Purples didn't like the BAE rack.

[Huntley Miller]

Siddhu,

did you ever find the cause of the problem with your original rack? Was it the power supply or the rack itself?

[iluvatar]

It's not exclusive to BAE racks - I've seen similar issues with a variety of non-VPR alliance modules and API lunchboxes. IIRC, I eventually found that the problem occurred on power-up with the unit had been off for a while; cycling the power corrected it. I never found what the problem was, but I assumed it was something with the way the modules interfaced with the frame. I was never able to narrow it down to one piece or even a small combination of pieces. I never had the problem with the API 500V racks and never with any VPR alliance modules.

-Dan.

[siddhu]

Originally Posted by cepia

Siddhu,

did you ever find the cause of the problem with your original rack? Was it the power supply or the rack itself?

Tried two different racks with the same power supply, and they did not work, so it's either a problem with the racks, or the power supply.

My retailer never phoned me to let me know what was the results of their tests on the returned racks and power supply.

[t-hiho]

Had a similar problem (also bypass switches status wrong, LEDs erratically, no audio passing thru,...):
2x API 560
1x Chandler Germ 500
1x Great River MP500NV
1x Shadow Hills Mono Gama
Experiment results:
- every single module worked in my API 6slot LB.
- all the modules together did not work im my API LB.
So I went for a BAE rack:
- some combinations worked in a BAE 11slot rack, some not; it was also dependent where which module was installed; a system could not be found; after some experiments the BAE PSU and my Shadow Hills Pre blew (not only the fuse, it was something inside the PSU; the Shadow Hills smoked).
So my dealer was very kind and exchanged the defective units super fast and free of charge.
- I now have an API 10slot rack with API PSU, and everything works perfectly (except the API PSUs fuse blew last week while powering up the unit - but that was the only time since 12 weeks or so).
Hm.
Don't get me wrong, I love the 500 format, and I love all those modules. Just bought an Anamod 660, an EMPEQ EQ and two API 550Bs.
But whats goin on there powerwise? I mean, we're not talking about Behringer, it's the big machines here!?

[mrpony]

Originally Posted by iluvatar

It's not exclusive to BAE racks - I've seen similar issues with a variety of non-VPR alliance modules and API lunchboxes. IIRC, I eventually found that the problem occurred on power-up with the unit had been off for a while; cycling the power corrected it. I never found what the problem was, but I assumed it was something with the way the modules interfaced with the frame. I was never able to narrow it down to one piece or even a small combination of pieces. I never had the problem with the API 500V racks and never with any VPR alliance modules.

-Dan.

What do you mean with "cycling the power"? I tried out an am660 which I had to send back now because it didn't work. Dave Amels directed me to this thread. So I guess there's something wrong with my BAE 6-slot lunchbox's PSU, but is there a way to fix it yourself? How do you measure these things? I've got a multimeter..

Thanks!

[cheu78]

Originally Posted by mrpony

What do you mean with "cycling the power"? I tried out an am660 which I had to send back now because it didn't work. Dave Amels directed me to this thread. So I guess there's something wrong with my BAE 6-slot lunchbox's PSU, but is there a way to fix it yourself? How do you measure these things? I've got a multimeter..

Thanks!

Hej Hej Mr Pony,
You might want to check out the answer that Avedis gave to a similar thread..

BAE 500s power supply troubles

I think the problem might also be of the modules that draws a lot of current on one side more than the other one..not too much in general (just more on one side than the other, I don't know the AM660, but it might be the case..I guess Dave Amels will know)

So that might put the old BAE pwr supply in protection mode.. Btw I'd suggest to contact directly with BAE or Avedis..email them or call them.. They're very friendly and knowledgeable..

But I guess you already did and solved the problem since it was about 1 year ago..

I hope this helps,

Hej då,

Cheu

[mrpony]

Yup, I solved the problem by selling the lunchbox and all the modules and bought an RCA 77D and a Retro Instruments Powerstrip. Still after a year, I couldn't be happier! Lunchbox and 500-series nevermore!

[G-d-S]

buy a sweet ten rack and be done with it...

[wade goeke]

Originally Posted by cheu78

Hej Hej Mr Pony,
You might want to check out the answer that Avedis gave to a similar thread..

BAE 500s power supply troubles

I think the problem might also be of the modules that draws a lot of current on one side more than the other one..not too much in general (just more on one side than the other, I don't know the AM660, but it might be the case..I guess Dave Amels will know)

So that might put the old BAE pwr supply in protection mode.. Btw I'd suggest to contact directly with BAE or Avedis..email them or call them.. They're very friendly and knowledgeable..

But I guess you already did and solved the problem since it was about 1 year ago..

I hope this helps,

Hej då,

Cheu

With the BAE and Lunchboxes it is a CURRENT LIMIT issue. That is why cycling the power works. It charges up the PSU so that on the second start up it does not draw as much current.

We ended up modifying all of our modules so that there was no conflict with this, as it became apparent that the racks were not going change. All Devil pres shipping with these changes and the Devil eq and comp have been shipping that way since mid 2011. All Devils can be modded as well at the factory. After going back and forth about how to solve the problem I realized I could not count on racks to become standardized so we took it on ourselves to work with the variations.

You can turn up the current limit trim on the larger BAE racks but the lunchbox does not have a trim for this (If Im remembering correctly). But if the rack is loaded heavily this may not be a solution. On the API lunchboxes they use two different type of regulators. One type will go into current limit and the other will not. The NEW API lunchboxes I have seen use the regulator that DOES go into current limit.

Whew! So much gear so little time indeed!

[Dave_Amels]

A mod of the power supply would be more appropriate since the modules are within API spec. The shutdown mode should be thermal and not current unless the steady-state current is over specification.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by mrpony

Yup, I solved the problem by selling the lunchbox and all the modules and bought an RCA 77D and a Retro Instruments Powerstrip. Still after a year, I couldn't be happier! Lunchbox and 500-series nevermore!

The lunchbox has issues with 50Hz power... if you had a Purple "Sweet 10" you would not have had any problems at all as that frame has no issues with 50Hz power... not that an RCA 77 isn't a beautiful thing... just blame your problem on the right the right thing.

Peace

[mrpony]

I don't "blame" my problems on anything haha! I just think that the lunchbox format isn't for me, that's all. I tried it out for a few years and as I said; I couldn't be happier with the gear I currently got. I don't like the format, but I don't like any API products either so I guess that makes me an anti-gearslut right? :-)