Distressor 1:1 = 20db gain reduction???

[Toni]

Hi there,

one question regarding the Distressor.

I have a stereo pair. The ratio is set to 1:1 (as far as i understood no compression at all). However, the gain of the signal going through the Distressors is reduced by almost 20db....how can that be? British mode is turned off.

Anybody knows whats going on here???

regards...

[Gie-Sound]

Do the meters show 20dB of gain reduction? Or does the audio come out 20dB lower (while the meters show NO gain reduction)?

[Toni]

the meters show 20 db of gain reduction and the outcoming signal sounds compressed....

[Drlove]

If you desire no compression use the bypass button.

[Toni]

well..yes...of course. The thing is that i assumed that 1:1 means no compression...or am i wrong???

[theblotted]

may want to email Dave Derr about this. he's usually pretty quick in replies.

[Gie-Sound]

What are the settings (on both units)?

[Toni]

Input 8, Attack 7, Release 0

Ratio 1:1

= meter shows 8db of gain reduction

[Sui_City]

IIRC, there was a change that needed to be made to the circuit for the Brit Mod. This change meant that the 1:1 ratio would still compress.

I stand corrected but i am sure there is a thread around here about it.

[Toni]

hmm ok...im going to look for it. Going further with the input i even got the 1% THD lightening up.

[jjblair]

1:1 is NOT no compression?

What kind of Gear Slutz are you guys anyway? Nobody has explained to him the basic operating principles of compression? You guys should know this shit. It's audio 101.

So I don't go back and correct myself again, since I was starting to explain it improperly, this is from wiki:

"A compressor reduces the gain (level) of an audio signal if its amplitude exceeds a threshold. The amount of gain reduction is determined by a ratio. For example, with a ratio of 4:1, when the (time averaged) input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output signal level will be 1 dB over the threshold. The gain (level) has been reduced by 3 dB. When the input level is 8 dB above the threshold, the output level will be 2 dB; a 6 dB gain reduction."

If you're getting 20dB reduction at 1:1, that means you're at least 20dB over the threshold. Back off your input gain, and watch your reduction decrease.

[Toni]

The manual states "..if you must cycle trough 1:1 wile the unit is in use, do it quickly since compression will be turned "off" and the signal will swell to its peak input levels".

so how can the signal be squashed against the wall with an Ratio of 1:1 ? Its....if i switch to 2:1....the compression appears to be more gentle then when setting the ratio to 1:1 (same input settings).

thx for your help..ill give it a try

[jjblair]

I'm not sure why Dave would put that in his manual. Something's not right there. Like I said, try backing off the input gain, and see if your reduction changes on a 1:1 ratio.

[dkatz42]

Originally Posted by jjblair

"A compressor reduces the gain (level) of an audio signal if its amplitude exceeds a threshold. The amount of gain reduction is determined by a ratio. For example, with a ratio of 4:1, when the (time averaged) input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output signal level will be 1 dB over the threshold. The gain (level) has been reduced by 3 dB. When the input level is 8 dB above the threshold, the output level will be 2 dB; a 6 dB gain reduction."

And extrapolating from your quote above, with a ratio of 1:1, when the input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output level will be 4 dB over the threshold.

20dB of gain reduction when 20dB over the threshold is only possible with an *infinite* compression ratio.

The ratio isn't really gain reduction, it's the reciprocal of gain. It's maybe easier to think of 4:1 gain ratio as 1:4 gain; for every 4 dB above the input threshold, the output goes up 1dB. The actual reduction is (4-1)/4 dB per input dB above threshold. With a 1:1 ratio, the actual reduction is (1-1)/1 dB per input dB, or zero.

1:1 is indeed no compression (look at the graph you included.)

If the output is 20dB down, then the output gain probably just has to be adjusted.

[SRS]

I have two Distressors (not stereo linked) and they both do this at a 1:1 setting. But ONLY if the Input is driven really hard. I have API 512c pres going into both Distressors, with my kick and snare on each of those chains. Needless to say, when the API pre is driven relatively hard, the Distressors get a pretty darn hot signal. I use them as the output pads (attenuators if you will). But in order to just go through the Distressors without registering any gain reduction at 1:1, I have the input knobs set at 2-1/2. Pretty f'ing low. If I want gain reduction, then I drive the input on the Distressors more and back off the Distressor outputs. Don't know if this might help, but mine do the same, and they do in fact compress, even at 1:1 ratios.

[mcballs]

Originally Posted by dkatz42

And extrapolating from your quote above, with a ratio of 1:1, when the input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output level will be 4 dB over the threshold.

20dB of gain reduction when 20dB over the threshold is only possible with an *infinite* compression ratio.

The ratio isn't really gain reduction, it's the reciprocal of gain. It's maybe easier to think of 4:1 gain ratio as 1:4 gain; for every 4 dB above the input threshold, the output goes up 1dB. The actual reduction is (4-1)/4 dB per input dB above threshold. With a 1:1 ratio, the actual reduction is (1-1)/1 dB per input dB, or zero.

1:1 is indeed no compression (look at the graph you included.)

If the output is 20dB down, then the output gain probably just has to be adjusted.

thumbsup

[six_wax]

Originally Posted by jjblair

What kind of Gear Slutz are you guys anyway? Nobody has explained to him the basic operating principles of compression? You guys should know this shit. It's audio 101.

Oh, the irony.

Ain't the internet grand?

[Gravity]

Originally Posted by jjblair

1:1 is NOT no compression.

What kind of Gear Slutz are you guys anyway? Nobody has explained to him the basic operating principles of compression? You guys should know this shit. It's audio 101.


If you're getting 20dB reduction at 1:1, that means you're at least 20dB over the threshold. Back off your input gain, and watch your reduction decrease.

You and I must have taken VERY different Audio 101 courses. One of us should ask for his money back. dfegad

[stuntbutt]

I think JJ is throwing monkey wrenches into the works.

[dkatz42]

Originally Posted by SRS

If I want gain reduction, then I drive the input on the Distressors more and back off the Distressor outputs. Don't know if this might help, but mine do the same, and they do in fact compress, even at 1:1 ratios.

Yep, but this is because you're driving the input beyond linearity (and it ain't 1:1 any more.) Push it hard enough and you run out of headroom and clip, and then you're at infinite compression.

[engmix]

From what I understand regarding your issue, 1:1 is specific to brit mod uses. Certainly you can use it for other things, but as you noticed, there is quite a large degree of gain reduction if just used as a "normal" ratio setting, probably due to tweak in circuitry for brit mod. As someone else posted, you would need to attenuate your input level quite dramatically to get a soft result in 1:1. I too thought this was odd, but i generally don't use my distressors for mild compression, so it's really no loss.

[bgrotto]

Perhaps you're clipping the Distressor's electronics? Or maybe there's some kind of protective overload limiter?

[MusicHurtsMyEars]

From what I understand, the 1:1 ratio is an emulator of sorts.

Dist 2 is 2nd harmonic distortion, and Dist 3 is 3rd harmonic distortion. the 1:1 ratio allows you to use these features without compressing the audio, maybe?

Maybe the GR meter is displaying how hard you are driving the unit?



Also, this is from the EL website:

"From the 1:1 mode that simply warms up signal with low order harmonics without intentional compression, to the "Nuke" setting - a brick wall limiting curve that shines on live drum room mics."

[Dave Derr]

Heyee Gang! - There is a jumper inside that gets moved to turn 1:1 into a ratio when Brit Mod is installed. Here is our standard answer to this question.

Difference between the EL8 and the EL8-X

The EL8 is the original Distressor. The EL8-X is the same Distressor except with some modifications built in. There are two modifications, BRIT MOD, and STEREO IMAGE LINK MOD. The front panel of the EL8-X also has yellow paint in addition to the white text paint. The EL8-X is usually about $200 more than the original EL8. The original EL8 can be upgraded to the EL8-X at a later date.

The EL8-X turns 1:1 into a ratio, so compression will now occur in 1:1, even if BRIT MODE is NOT engaged. It’s a pretty steep ratio, but can be disabled with a jumper inside, and turned back to 1:1.

Please see our website for more information on the modifications and EL8X.
Empirical Labs

Thanks for your interest in an Empirical Labs Product!

Tech Support, Empirical Labs

[toolstudio]

It has something to do with the brit mode. As the brit mode uses the 1:1 setting

wolfgang

EDIT: message to myself: read thread befor post :-)

[dubrichie]

whatever!

whatever works!

i looove my pair of EL8-X on electro basses when mixing electronic musics.

daking pre/EQ > distressor > savage.

clients looove it.

get that inte ye!

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by Dave Derr

The EL8-X turns 1:1 into a ratio, so compression will now occur in 1:1, even if BRIT MODE is NOT engaged. It’s a pretty steep ratio, but can be disabled with a jumper inside, and turned back to 1:1.

does this mean with the jumper, it disables BRIT MODE or just disables the 1:1 compression?

[Svens]

Originally Posted by dkatz42

And extrapolating from your quote above, with a ratio of 1:1, when the input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output level will be 4 dB over the threshold.

20dB of gain reduction when 20dB over the threshold is only possible with an *infinite* compression ratio.

1:1 is indeed no compression (look at the graph you included.).

EXACTLY DKATZ! do your homework jjblair! What kind of a gearslut are you? THIS is audio 101!

[Toni]

Thanks for clarifying this Dave.

Originally Posted by theblotted

does this mean with the jumper, it disables BRIT MODE or just disables the 1:1 compression?

interesting question.... i guess it disables both brit mode/ compression and turns the unit back into an EL8.

[soundsundergroun]

1:1 will is hitting the distortion part of the distressor.