Apogee AD16-x and Benchmark DAC-1 v. MoTU HD192 with BigBen - Opinions sought

[Michaeljt]

I'm torn between these 2 set ups. I know the MOTU doesn't have as good converters as the AD16-X/Benchmark, but if clocked to a BigBen, is it really that much inferior? Anyone have experience with these 2 set ups? The difference in cost may allow me to buy a GR MP1NV. Appreciate opinions. Thanks

[GYang]

Much different, don't think further.

GYang

[headz]

I'd say skip the Motu cause even they look nice featurewise for the price they definitely don't play in same league as both AD16-x and DAC-1(IMO motu don't even come close).
Integrating a big ben to a a Motu HD192 gives u an improved image of sound while you listen to it of but not more as it doesn't make the conversion better (roughly said a big ben improves sound similar to getting better monitors !!!), the DAC-1 and AD16-X have much better conversion in the AD/DA stages and therefore not even sound very good they also print the sound more detailed into your AIFF/WAV file...

But for using the AD16-x / DAC-1 combo you ideally need a PCI card for low latency, direct monitoring options & stability - so a RME HDSP card is likely to add to the costs (keep in mind that RME card cost as much as the Firewire option from apogee and gives you much more features as it plays well with the DAC-1 compared to the FW option from apogee)

hope this helps you a little...

[Michaeljt]

Thanks for the info. One thing I wonder: So many here seem to like the Digi 192 converters. The MOTU rep. stated to me at the Mac Expo show today that their HD192 converters are "identical" to that of Digidesign's. Also, I can't help notice the number of studios that favour them; is there truly no difference? Headz, thanks for the tip on the RME PCI card idea. I'll check that out. Cheers.

[headz]

please keep in mind that a identical chipset used for the conversions are not the only factor that makes/affects sound, the complete design & internal clocking around the chips is a big influence playing into game here. hence the little differences between all highend stuff like apogee, benchmark, lavry etc.

even they all might use same chipsets they are all different in design around, which affects the sound

when a rep from any company states they have 'identical' stuff, they'll only tell you half of the whole game (they might even not know it better and try to be honest to you...)

[sscp]

Let me say this I have the Hd 192 with big ben and the dac and also the nv1 you wont be disapointed recording at 24bit/96 sounds pretty good.

[GYang]

When I wrote 'much difference', I meant in favour of AD16X/DAC combo of course, regardless its higher price. HD192, as well as, many other convertres on the market can indeed sound fine, but at the end of the day you find out that better conversion (what Apogee in your question is) shows itself clearly.
Fully agree with RME as probably the best available option for transfer to PC presently. I tried all their products and with exception of ADCs (they are not bad at all, just don't on par in sound quality with Apogees) their PCI cards and especially devices with Firewire implementation are far ahead of competition in all essential terms.
You can go with confidence with above.

GYang

[Macaroni]

How do the AD converters in the new RME Fireface compare to the Apogee AD16X?

I've got an Apogee Trak2 and an RME Multiface, and when I track more than 2 channels, the RME holds up well with the Trak2. Of course, I use the Trak2 for all overdubs, as well as the master clock.


Ron...

[GYang]

Originally posted by Macaroni
How do the AD converters in the new RME Fireface compare to the Apogee AD16X?

I sold my older RME converters, after made carefully comparison with newer Apogee range, especially 16ADX. It does not mean that RME Firefaces are not very good, for price they are probably the best you can buy, indeed.

Fireface is really cool product and if you already have it and need Firewire for digital transfer to PC it is for sure the best way to do it. IMO Apogee's Firewire implementation is less optimal (they still have to develop it), while RME has already good reputation in this field (and strong own development).


GYang

[Hiwatt]

I've been using two Motu HD192's for a while and have to say they sound pretty good. Better than digi's 92io and on par with the 192io which has the same converter chips. Been pondering doing the big ben thing and grabbing a dac-1. Also was thinking of getting the UA-2192 but am currently leaning toward the bigben/dac1 combo.

[atticus]

Originally posted by Michaeljt
Thanks for the info. One thing I wonder: So many here seem to like the Digi 192 converters. The MOTU rep. stated to me at the Mac Expo show today that their HD192 converters are "identical" to that of Digidesign's. Also, I can't help notice the number of studios that favour them; is there truly no difference? Headz, thanks for the tip on the RME PCI card idea. I'll check that out. Cheers.

The converter chips in them are identical, but pretty much nothing else is the same. It's pretty easy for a rep to mislead someone that way. On the topic of what to get, if the two scenarios that you gave were the only choices I'd go with the AD-16x and the DAC1, both for sonic reasons and for the fact that if you ever need to resell them you'll get more of a premium on those two then the MOTU stuff. Thanks.

[Michaeljt]

I'm not limited to the 2 choices mentioned. My budget is around $4K, so any other suggestion is welcomed; I norrowed it to these as I felt they're a decent bang for my dollar; also, I need min. 16 ins. I agree about the re-sell potential of Apogee/Benchmark gear and this is a factor. Is the RME Fireface a comparable option? Would the Fireface gain much by being clocked to a BigBen?

[fredrik@mi7]

Hi there.

I would take a look at Apogees MiniDAC. It is the same as 2 channels from DA16x and it sounds amazing. A AD16x together with a MiniDAC will be a super nice combination both now and certainly in the future.

Apogee is developing a fantastic solution for audio over Firewire, you will be able to connect any combination of Apogee products to a Mac or PC using Firewire, this will also include the Mini-series in the future.

You will be able to have for example 2x AD16x and a MiniDAC or 1x AD16x, 1x DA16x and a MiniMe or maybe 1x MiniMe and 2x DA16x. All this connected and available to you on the same Firewire-bus. And on the Mac it uses Apples Core Audio drive so it is ”Plug and Play” without a single driver.

Today Apogee is shipping a preproduction version of a Firewire card that is only working with Firewire400 but I can tell you that it does work really well. I have tried it both with Rosetta800 and Rosetta200. With the 2.0 update coming to AD/DA16x really soon I will be able to take them for a spin as well. With the 2.0 update you will also be able to use the digital output of the AD16x as outputs from your DAW and the digital ins of the DA16x in the same way.

The backside of the current card is that since it is Firewire400 is giving you some limitations when it comes to number of channels. And with the current version of MacOSX you are only allowed to connect one unit at the time. This will be solved in MacOS 10.4, due out during H1-2005. But if you are running PC you will be able to connect more than one unit today.

There are a few reasons why Apogees development of this concept is taking so long, but trust me I say that Apogee is working had to get it on the road ASAP.