I'd Like To Move Up to UA 2192...but HELP!

choinga · 17th July 2008, 02:52 PM

I currently have a RME Fireface 800 and after checking out the UA2192, I'm convinced it's time to upgrade...

Problem is - my RME setup is pretty easy...firewire in and I use the multiple analog outputs to drive my headphone amp and my JBL 4326's.

With the UA, I'll need a DSP card (they recommend the RME HDSP 9652 - are their others?) and will have to rely on digital outs to drive my 4326's, which I haven't done before.

Do I use SPDIF or AES? The 4326's accept both inputs - is their advantage to one over the other?

As for the headphone amp - should I come out of the analog out of the 2192 or use one of the 9652's outputs for live monitoring?

Also, the UA2192 has two seperate AES outputs as you can see in the diagram - one is 'dual wire'. Which of those would I use?

Anyway, I've attached a jpg of what I "think" my proposed setup should look like. I'm still not sure since I've never used a 9652 what my inputs will look like in my DAW (I use Sonar Producer 7.0.3) as I've never used an ADAT in/out. Right now with my Fireface I see something like 15 ADAT inputs (The FF800 has 2 ADAT in/out's so each one is 8 in/outs?) so I'm assuming when I load up a track I'd just pick ADAT 1 left, right or stereo depending on what I'm doing??

MIKEHARRIS · 17th July 2008, 03:41 PM

you need to drive your monitors from the analog output of the 2192...and you need a simple level control .

choinga · 17th July 2008, 03:51 PM

Thanks for the response.

Please explain though why I can't run my monitors via digital output when they accept both SPDIF and AES??

Also, if I run my monitors via the analog output, then what do I use to get signal to my headphone amp (which has no digital input)?

nickynicknick · 17th July 2008, 04:22 PM

Your question is a bit confusing to me. I have a 2192 I run it through my firewire interface via adat optical....maybe I'm not reading properly but why can't you keep everything the same and do this.....there is something I know you don't want to do ...and that is run directly from the 2192 (analog or digital) to your speakers. You'll need a central station anyway. Again why not use your current interface? Like I said though, I may be missing something.

Nick

choinga · 17th July 2008, 04:34 PM

Fair question Nicky...

I was going to sell my FF800 (I don't need that many inputs) but if I kept it, I could certainly use the ADAT input and come into that from the 2192. I figured I could net about $1k from selling the FF800 and picking up a used 9652...although now I think about it...the 9652 has no analog inputs and it would be nice to have 1 or 2 extra. Also, wouldn't latency be even less of an issue with a PCI card via firewire?

Still begs the question though - what do I use for outputs? You recommend NOT using the analog outs on the 2192 for my monitors - do I continue to use my analog stereo outs on the FF800 to run both my monitors and my headphone amp? (I could switch to SPDIF outs on the FF800 to run my monitors I guess...just never did that when I first set them up because I didn't have the cables). Would I use the analog outputs on the 2192 for anything?? In UAD's manual they recommend a 9652 but send the monitor output to the analog outputs on the 2192.

Apologies for the confusion - as I said, this is a new configuration for me and one that I have have no experience with so I'm trying to figure it out before I pull the trigger on anything.

Thanks for the help.

nickynicknick · 17th July 2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choinga

Fair question Nicky...

I was going to sell my FF800 (I don't need that many inputs) but if I kept it, I could certainly use the ADAT input and come into that from the 2192.

Still begs the question though - what do I use for outputs? You recommend using the analog outs on the 2192 for my monitors - do I use the analog stereo out on the FF800 for the headphones then??

Apologies for the confusion - as I said, this is a new configuration for me and one that I have have no experience with so I'm trying to figure it out before I pull the trigger on anything.

Thanks for the help.

Actually I'm suggesting to start .....use the analog outs that you've been using for your monitors......let me explain this way...instead of trying to utilize every input output of the 2192, start out by using it as an extension of your current system.. Use it to track through (i.e.) mic 1 &2 into pre amp 1&2 into Input left and right on the UA, shows up as input 9, 10(adat) (for me) in your DAW. Bingo. You've successfully used great conversion to get in. The Outs I use for reamping or more importantly printing mixies through if I want to go OTB (Great DA) through a comp, limiter, whatever and back in (great AD)....now I understand that this is not using the 2192 fully, but I think this is a good way to start, without messing with your workflow, and you'll get the immediate benefits of tracking with this beast. Please keep in mind, this box takes some getting used to sonically. Good Luck.

Nick

PS Definitely Use the UA Clock as your master clock
and....using the digital in on your speakers probably doesn't help because the converters there (I'm guessing) aren't that good.

choinga · 17th July 2008, 04:53 PM

Thanks Nicky - appreciate the response...

Can you elaborate on this statement:

"Please keep in mind, this box takes some getting used to sonically..."

nickynicknick · 17th July 2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choinga

Thanks Nicky - appreciate the response...

Can you elaborate on this statement:

"Please keep in mind, this box takes some getting used to sonically..."

For me I track through a good analog pre and eq before heading into the box...so what I was used to compensating for with other conversion didn't exist with the 2192. The only way for me to explain is that it kinda feels like I'm recording into a tape deck...sorta..it's not brittle and one dimensional like a lot of converters and I'm just saying that you may need some time to get used to that. Engineers seem to either love or hate this box. Cheers.

Nick

choinga · 17th July 2008, 05:10 PM

Very cool - any chance you have any samples available?

I have a Aurora GTQ2 and a Portico 5012 and have a few nice mics but primarily use my Pearlman TM-1 and KM-84's (I mostly record acoustic stuff). I've read that the 2192 is 'colored' so I assumed it had a strong analog vibe to it but haven't been able to hear anything - particulary something where a signal was split into something like one of the RME's analog input and compared with what came out of the 2192.

Is there anything you would/could compare the 'coloration' to?

nickynicknick · 18th July 2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choinga

Very cool - any chance you have any samples available?

I have a Aurora GTQ2 and a Portico 5012 and have a few nice mics but primarily use my Pearlman TM-1 and KM-84's (I mostly record acoustic stuff). I've read that the 2192 is 'colored' so I assumed it had a strong analog vibe to it but haven't been able to hear anything - particulary something where a signal was split into something like one of the RME's analog input and compared with what came out of the 2192.

Is there anything you would/could compare the 'coloration' to?

I don't have A/B samples....it's not really colour...more like the way it captures the picture...anyway rent one and check it out if you are doubtful.

starfighter · 18th July 2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickynicknick

there is something I know you don't want to do ...and that is run directly from the 2192 (analog or digital) to your speakers.
Nick

The only reason would be if your computer suddenly crashes and makes a loud f"#¤¤in burst that breaks the tweeters in your monitors...

But I will strongly recommend you to use the DA outs on 2192 simply because it sounds fantastic! Check out the SPL Volume 2 if you just need a supertransparent analog volum controller...

morten

Goldfish · 19th July 2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickynicknick

Use it to track through (i.e.) mic 1 &2 into pre amp 1&2 into Input left and right on the UA, shows up as input 9, 10(adat) (for me) in your DAW. Bingo. You've successfully used great conversion to get in. The Outs I use for reamping or more importantly printing mixies through if I want to go OTB (Great DA) through a comp, limiter, whatever and back in (great AD).

That's what I do with my 2192. I found myself using the 2192s A/D for tracking, and the D/A for OTB mixdown processing/reamping duties. The monitors are fed through my old pair of Myteks. The idea is to take advantage of the 2192s warm and musical sound, whilst keeping the monitoring more "clean" or "neutral". I clock from the 2192.

choinga · 19th July 2008, 03:09 PM

"But I will strongly recommend you to use the DA outs on 2192 simply because it sounds fantastic! Check out the SPL Volume 2 if you just need a supertransparent analog volum controller..."

interesting...the outputs sound that much better huh?

I'm curious how you guys use a device like this for OTB mixdown? Do you just plug the 2192's outputs back into it's inputs (or stick a compresser/EQ in between) and then create a new track in your project that is the 'final mix' of the entire project?

moonpi · 9th August 2008, 03:01 AM

One thing everyone seems to be missing regarding monitoring is that he is using JBL 4300 series monitors - DIGITAL monitors. There is no way to get around the fact that the monitors have AD/DA converters on board. Since I have used the 2192 with my JBL 4326 monitors, I found the best sound resulted from just going into them digitally and benefiting from the clocking of the 2192. The absence of jitter in the monitor converters improved EVERYTHING. Though you will hear a new character injected into the audio if you decide to monitor through the DA of the 2192 into the JBL 4300 monitors, the jittery clock in the JBL will smear any benefit the 2192 imparts upon the signal coming out it's DA.

You'll definitely want to mute or turn off your monitors when making any kind of change on the panel of the 2192. POPS and other potentially damaging digital annoyances occur when switching clock source, rates, converter signal sources/routing, etc. The handy-dandy remote that the JBLs have makes this a snap.

choinga · 9th August 2008, 05:36 AM

interesting moonpi - thanks for sharing that...

I'm afraid I may have a 2192 with a bad DA section (per another thread) - I get horribly distorted output when using analog or AES outputs into my 4326's. Output meters on the 2192 are never in the yellow and it works/sounds great coming through digital/analog out of my RME FF800 so I think I'm going to end up sending my 2192 back.

Good insight though - I'll go ahead and use the digital outs on the 2192 into my monitors.

Another question - do you ever run a mix back into a channel through any outboard gear? If so, do you run the mix through your analog out on the 2192 (through outboard gear) and back into the 2192's inputs into a stereo channel in your DAW?

Just curious how that works/sounds?

moonpi · 9th August 2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choinga

interesting moonpi - thanks for sharing that...

I'm afraid I may have a 2192 with a bad DA section (per another thread) - I get horribly distorted output when using analog or AES outputs into my 4326's. Output meters on the 2192 are never in the yellow and it works/sounds great coming through digital/analog out of my RME FF800 so I think I'm going to end up sending my 2192 back.

Good insight though - I'll go ahead and use the digital outs on the 2192 into my monitors.

Another question - do you ever run a mix back into a channel through any outboard gear? If so, do you run the mix through your analog out on the 2192 (through outboard gear) and back into the 2192's inputs into a stereo channel in your DAW?

Just curious how that works/sounds?

Answer/Comment to First Question/Situation: I haven't experienced that particular problem. I'd contact UA first before just sending it back. My experience with their gear is that it's pretty bullet proof and doesn't arrive malfunctioning. They have likely heard it all before and should be able to guide you effectively though the issue.

As for the Second Question: I have not done that yet. I don't see why it couldn't be done. My testing of that unit involved me running a clip out of another DA and into the AD of the 2192 within same system and recorded to stereo tracks while clocking the 2192 to various sources. I didn't have a problem at all with it. In fact, it gave me a really good idea of the character of those converters. I would assume that the DA would be very CLEAN and have much less character, simply because you'd want to have an uncolored output for monitoring and all the character on the input for tracking/mixing. So fire away! Inject some flavor into your previously recorded tracks!

B-San · 9th August 2008, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldfish

That's what I do with my 2192. I found myself using the 2192s A/D for tracking, and the D/A for OTB mixdown processing/reamping duties. The monitors are fed through my old pair of Myteks. The idea is to take advantage of the 2192s warm and musical sound, whilst keeping the monitoring more "clean" or "neutral". I clock from the 2192.

Very interesting... I just got a 2192 and was wondering if I should monitor through its D/A, but I'm being cautious as I don't neccesarily want to be 'fooled' by color added to my monitors which won't end up on the final product when playing through consumer grade systems... I also wanted to take advantage of the 2192's clocking...

It seems that your stradegy coincides with what I want to get out of my unit... thanks for sharing!

nickynicknick · 9th August 2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choinga

interesting moonpi - thanks for sharing that...

I'm afraid I may have a 2192 with a bad DA section (per another thread) - I get horribly distorted output when using analog or AES outputs into my 4326's. Output meters on the 2192 are never in the yellow and it works/sounds great coming through digital/analog out of my RME FF800 so I think I'm going to end up sending my 2192 back.

Good insight though - I'll go ahead and use the digital outs on the 2192 into my monitors.

Another question - do you ever run a mix back into a channel through any outboard gear? If so, do you run the mix through your analog out on the 2192 (through outboard gear) and back into the 2192's inputs into a stereo channel in your DAW?

Just curious how that works/sounds?

Dude please listen....there is no output control from any of the outs of the 2192...thats' why you need a central station...or your current interface...or a monitor section of a console...also....most definitely use your 2192 analog outs and back in...this is a great way to print a mix and, as you say, you can insert some nice analog pieces along the way (ie. stereo compressor)..thye way I do it is asign all your channels, auxes ,fx etc to the output of the 2192 (through a nice stereo comp or whatever) and then back in to the 2192...arm two channels (panned L&R of course) with the inputs set from the 2192 (for me its 9, 10) and away you go...this is where you'll start to see some differences in your mixes. You'll have to make some adjustments to your mix at this point. Cheers.

nick

moonpi · 11th August 2008, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickynicknick

Dude please listen....there is no output control from any of the outs of the 2192...thats' why you need a central station...or your current interface...or a monitor section of a console...

nick

He is using JBL 4326 monitors... If he were using any other monitor I would agree, but I have found major level discrepancies in the 4300's vs. other monitors since they have their own monitor control via their remote control and control software. They are not designed to be used with a Central Station or any other monitor controller. They are looking for line input or, even better, a digital input via AES/EBU or S/PDIF. They work best in this fashion since they have integrated, non-bypassable AD/DA converters for the DSP section; using the digital in will bypass the AD stage and also allow better performance since the digital section can then clock to a much better clock - especially if using the 2192's digital outs to fee the monitors.

His problem is something else, I suspect. I have used a 2192 with my 4326's and have not experienced his issue. It could just be some problem with a setting on the front panel or something else that is an easy mistake to make... It's not that UA is infallible, but they typically have excellent QC that catches any issues before shipping. That's why I'd check with them and try to troubleshoot it with UA since they'll know how it should be setup. The manual is very thorough, though it does assume a certain level of technical knowledge.

Another possible issue could be with the monitors... there is the -10/+4 switch next to the XLR inputs which are easily depressed when connecting. It's possible that they are set to -10dBu and are distorting as a result. Using the digital inputs would eliminate this issue as well as give better performance.

choinga · 11th August 2008, 05:03 AM

great info moonpi - appreciate the response...

on the 4326's both switches (-10dbu) are out, so that's not the issue. And even then, I get the distortion using both the analog and AES outputs so I wouldn't think that would be the issue anyway.

There's really not much on the front to mess with - and I've tried every permutation of what's there.

I'm traveling for work this week so it will be Friday before I can even return UA's call. I'm sure they'll have me mess with a few things and I hope we can fix it, but my money is on sending it back at this point. I honestly don't know what else to try...

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17th July 2008, 02:52 PM	#1
choinga Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 163	I'd Like To Move Up to UA 2192...but HELP! I currently have a RME Fireface 800 and after checking out the UA2192, I'm convinced it's time to upgrade... Problem is - my RME setup is pretty easy...firewire in and I use the multiple analog outputs to drive my headphone amp and my JBL 4326's. With the UA, I'll need a DSP card (they recommend the RME HDSP 9652 - are their others?) and will have to rely on digital outs to drive my 4326's, which I haven't done before. Do I use SPDIF or AES? The 4326's accept both inputs - is their advantage to one over the other? As for the headphone amp - should I come out of the analog out of the 2192 or use one of the 9652's outputs for live monitoring? Also, the UA2192 has two seperate AES outputs as you can see in the diagram - one is 'dual wire'. Which of those would I use? Anyway, I've attached a jpg of what I "think" my proposed setup should look like. I'm still not sure since I've never used a 9652 what my inputs will look like in my DAW (I use Sonar Producer 7.0.3) as I've never used an ADAT in/out. Right now with my Fireface I see something like 15 ADAT inputs (The FF800 has 2 ADAT in/out's so each one is 8 in/outs?) so I'm assuming when I load up a track I'd just pick ADAT 1 left, right or stereo depending on what I'm doing?? Attached Thumbnails

17th July 2008, 03:41 PM	#2
MIKEHARRIS Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: MIAMI FLA Posts: 1,292	you need to drive your monitors from the analog output of the 2192...and you need a simple level control . __________________ harrisaudiosystems.com

9th August 2008, 03:01 AM	#14
moonpi Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 94	Improve the clocking of your monitors... since you can't get around them being there One thing everyone seems to be missing regarding monitoring is that he is using JBL 4300 series monitors - DIGITAL monitors. There is no way to get around the fact that the monitors have AD/DA converters on board. Since I have used the 2192 with my JBL 4326 monitors, I found the best sound resulted from just going into them digitally and benefiting from the clocking of the 2192. The absence of jitter in the monitor converters improved EVERYTHING. Though you will hear a new character injected into the audio if you decide to monitor through the DA of the 2192 into the JBL 4300 monitors, the jittery clock in the JBL will smear any benefit the 2192 imparts upon the signal coming out it's DA. You'll definitely want to mute or turn off your monitors when making any kind of change on the panel of the 2192. POPS and other potentially damaging digital annoyances occur when switching clock source, rates, converter signal sources/routing, etc. The handy-dandy remote that the JBLs have makes this a snap. __________________ MoonPi "Look out honey, 'cause I'm usin' technology!" - IGGY

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17th July 2008, 03:51 PM	#3
choinga Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 163	Thanks for the response. Please explain though why I can't run my monitors via digital output when they accept both SPDIF and AES?? Also, if I run my monitors via the analog output, then what do I use to get signal to my headphone amp (which has no digital input)?

17th July 2008, 04:22 PM	#4
nickynicknick Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 915	Your question is a bit confusing to me. I have a 2192 I run it through my firewire interface via adat optical....maybe I'm not reading properly but why can't you keep everything the same and do this.....there is something I know you don't want to do ...and that is run directly from the 2192 (analog or digital) to your speakers. You'll need a central station anyway. Again why not use your current interface? Like I said though, I may be missing something. Nick

17th July 2008, 04:34 PM	#5
choinga Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 163	Fair question Nicky... I was going to sell my FF800 (I don't need that many inputs) but if I kept it, I could certainly use the ADAT input and come into that from the 2192. I figured I could net about $1k from selling the FF800 and picking up a used 9652...although now I think about it...the 9652 has no analog inputs and it would be nice to have 1 or 2 extra. Also, wouldn't latency be even less of an issue with a PCI card via firewire? Still begs the question though - what do I use for outputs? You recommend NOT using the analog outs on the 2192 for my monitors - do I continue to use my analog stereo outs on the FF800 to run both my monitors and my headphone amp? (I could switch to SPDIF outs on the FF800 to run my monitors I guess...just never did that when I first set them up because I didn't have the cables). Would I use the analog outputs on the 2192 for anything?? In UAD's manual they recommend a 9652 but send the monitor output to the analog outputs on the 2192. Apologies for the confusion - as I said, this is a new configuration for me and one that I have have no experience with so I'm trying to figure it out before I pull the trigger on anything. Thanks for the help.

17th July 2008, 04:53 PM	#7
choinga Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 163	Thanks Nicky - appreciate the response... Can you elaborate on this statement: "Please keep in mind, this box takes some getting used to sonically..."

17th July 2008, 05:10 PM	#9
choinga Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 163	Very cool - any chance you have any samples available? I have a Aurora GTQ2 and a Portico 5012 and have a few nice mics but primarily use my Pearlman TM-1 and KM-84's (I mostly record acoustic stuff). I've read that the 2192 is 'colored' so I assumed it had a strong analog vibe to it but haven't been able to hear anything - particulary something where a signal was split into something like one of the RME's analog input and compared with what came out of the 2192. Is there anything you would/could compare the 'coloration' to?

19th July 2008, 03:09 PM	#13
choinga Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 163	"But I will strongly recommend you to use the DA outs on 2192 simply because it sounds fantastic! Check out the SPL Volume 2 if you just need a supertransparent analog volum controller..." interesting...the outputs sound that much better huh? I'm curious how you guys use a device like this for OTB mixdown? Do you just plug the 2192's outputs back into it's inputs (or stick a compresser/EQ in between) and then create a new track in your project that is the 'final mix' of the entire project?

9th August 2008, 05:36 AM	#15
choinga Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 163	interesting moonpi - thanks for sharing that... I'm afraid I may have a 2192 with a bad DA section (per another thread) - I get horribly distorted output when using analog or AES outputs into my 4326's. Output meters on the 2192 are never in the yellow and it works/sounds great coming through digital/analog out of my RME FF800 so I think I'm going to end up sending my 2192 back. Good insight though - I'll go ahead and use the digital outs on the 2192 into my monitors. Another question - do you ever run a mix back into a channel through any outboard gear? If so, do you run the mix through your analog out on the 2192 (through outboard gear) and back into the 2192's inputs into a stereo channel in your DAW? Just curious how that works/sounds?

11th August 2008, 05:03 AM	#20
choinga Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 163	great info moonpi - appreciate the response... on the 4326's both switches (-10dbu) are out, so that's not the issue. And even then, I get the distortion using both the analog and AES outputs so I wouldn't think that would be the issue anyway. There's really not much on the front to mess with - and I've tried every permutation of what's there. I'm traveling for work this week so it will be Friday before I can even return UA's call. I'm sure they'll have me mess with a few things and I hope we can fix it, but my money is on sending it back at this point. I honestly don't know what else to try...