"Top 5" High-End/medium/Low-End converters...

[Dirty Halo]

As I see it, converters are sort of the "keystone" to the whole chain of recording. Every link is important, but your converter is a bit of a lynch-pin (to mix metaphors).

We all have our favorites, what we own, what we DESIRE, what we'd steal if no one were looking; but if you could be as unbiased as possible, what would be YOUR top 5 converter picks in each category?

Some are purely the best-of-the best, no holds barred.
Some, good bang for the buck.
Some, to get your foot in the door.

Let's see what's the current consensus (and dare to dream, don't worry about configurations, etc)

HIGH-END:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.


MID-RANGE:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.


Low-End:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

P.S. And an added bonus as to "why" would be great info for all!

[Dirty Halo]

Top 3 in each category.

Or... any you can remember

[badhorsie777]

I have experience with MOTU 2408's (at a studio here in town where I freelance) and my presonus inspire at home (cheapest possible demo studio - with as much quality as that'll get me)

I get nice sounds at home with my inspire's conversion. I hear a bit of a difference with the motus, but I am comparing different front-ends at that point. As far as low-end goes, I get very nice vocals and acoustic guitar sounds out of the presonus and a studio projects C1 ->logic 8 express. Bang for the buck, for sure.

Thanks to some wicked nice folks on here (Tony B, foremost) I'm eyeing Lavry black ad/da's and avedis MA5's to update that. Got an overwhelming approval to that suggestion, so that's my goal. I only know anecdotally what the upgrade will get me, but I haven't ever felt "terrible" about the presonus. They're better than any all-in-one I've ever had to use (tascam, fostex, yamaha, boss, etc.) - those sounded significantly lower on the food chain.

Not much help, I know - but the inspire for 149 bucks is a very useable piece to start out with.

[Dirty Halo]

HIGH END:

1. Weiss
2. Prism
3. Lavry
4. Apogee
5. Mytek

MEDIUM:

1. Digi 192
2. Benchmark
3. SSL
4. Lucid
5. Prism Orpheus

LOW-END:

1. RME
2. Digi 003
3. Digi M-Box
4. Lexicon Omega
5. M-Audio


Ooooh, but where does this leave everything between Cranesong to MOTU?

What do YOU think?

[Loki]

High End:
Emm Labs
dCS
Prism
DAD
Lavry Gold

Med End:
Apogee
Mytek
Lavry Blue
Weiss
CraneSong

Low End:
Too many to mention

[starfighter]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

HIGH END:

1. Weiss
2. Prism
3. Lavry
4. Apogee
5. Mytek

MEDIUM:

1. Digi 192
2. Benchmark
3. SSL
4. Lucid
5. Prism Orpheus

LOW-END:

1. RME
2. Digi 003
3. Digi M-Box
4. Lexicon Omega
5. M-Audio


Ooooh, but where does this leave everything between Cranesong to MOTU?

What do YOU think?

WTF?!?!?! Are you still on about this??!?! Should I invite everyone from the apoogee/lynx/ssl thread over here? "#¤"¤!"#&%¤"#

Or did you decide to move the 192s to the medium category in order to stay out of trouble with the ssl?

morten

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by starfighter

WTF?!?!?! Are you still on about this??!?! Should I invite everyone from the apoogee/lynx/ssl thread over here? "#¤"¤!"#&%¤"#

Or did you decide to move the 192s to the medium category in order to stay out of trouble with the ssl?

morten

Nope... just giving a stage for other people to speak THEIR peace.

What are you worried about?

-andrews

[starfighter]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Nope... just giving a stage for other people speak THEIR peace.

What are you worried about?

-andrews

OK, cool! I'm not worried about a damn thing... If we can keep this thread informative I'm all for it. Just suspected you were gathering a fanbase to support your arguments. Sorry, man! I'll get off your back...

morten

[dbjp]

Dirty Halo,

Are the 192 digi interfaces REALLY midrange? There are countless high end studios that have multiple 192 interfaces. Are they clueless? Or don't they give a damn about the quality to and from their SSL/Neve consoles?

[Zuewi]

HIGH-END:

1. DAD AX24 (haven't heard, or better say the chance to hear any better yet and I'm really not interested since i heard this thing)

MID-RANGE:

1. Don't care

Low-End:

1. The ones in AKAI MPC3000, great for big, fat drum sounds :)

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by dbjp

Dirty Halo,

Are the 192 digi interfaces REALLY midrange? There are countless high end studios that have multiple 192 interfaces. Are they clueless? Or don't they give a damn about the quality to and from their SSL/Neve consoles?

That's the point of this thread, put the Digi 192 anywhere YOU think they belong.

What do you think are the best 5 High-End, Medium & Low-End range converters?

Everyone has a different idea (which makes the world go 'round)... and educationally, we'll also learn commonalities, which could be helpful to people.

-andrews

[ThomasWho]

The ones I have owned/used extensively (I`m sorry there are so few , haven`t tested more than these ) :

High end :

1. Prism Orpheus
2. Digi 192
3. Apogee DA16/AD16 series

Mid:

1.Apogee Ensmble / Mini Me


Low:

1.Presonus Firebox

[Baz]

Wow, no mention of RADAR in high end thus far? Amazing.......

[shakermaker3]

hey halo, how did the orpheus wind up at the end of your mid range list? i thought it was on par with the other prism stuff... why so low?

[digi882]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

HIGH END:

1. Weiss
2. Prism
3. Lavry
4. Apogee
5. Mytek

MEDIUM:

1. Digi 192
2. Benchmark
3. SSL
4. Lucid
5. Prism Orpheus

LOW-END:

1. RME
2. Digi 003
3. Digi M-Box
4. Lexicon Omega
5. M-Audio


Ooooh, but where does this leave everything between Cranesong to MOTU?

What do YOU think?

Ok Dirty Halo im well confused now are you saying the prism orpheus is mid end prism have told me it is better that the ada 8 xr maybe it mid end due to issues with the drivers then but in term of audio quality they categorically said it was better then the ada 8 xr. hmm or is it id end because it is firewire.

[Fluxpod]

HIGH END:

1. Lavry
2. Weiss
3. Prism
4. DaD
5. Mytek

MEDIUM:

1. Lynx
2. Benchmark
3. SSL
4. Prism Orpheus
5. Apogee

LOW-END:

1. RME
2. Echo
3. SonicCore
4. Digi 003
5. M-Audio


Imo.

[cooker]

Just to mention,
I like TC Electronics converters for the price. There was a shoot out some time ago compared to the duet and difference wasn't dramatic (tc was less colored but bass freq.s were handled better with apogee).

[Chris]

Curious where you guys would put the UA 2192.

[Fluxpod]

Originally Posted by Chris

Curious where you guys would put the UA 2192.

I forgot about it....def in the high end region.

[dbjp]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

That's the point of this thread, put the Digi 192 anywhere YOU think they belong.

What do you think are the best 5 High-End, Medium & Low-End range converters?

Everyone has a different idea (which makes the world go 'round)... and educationally, we'll also learn commonalities, which could be helpful to people.

-andrews

It would be nice if people could at least justify their rankings when asked though. Wouldn't that also be the point of the thread?

[1ManBand]

where would the presonus central stations converters stack up on these rankings?

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by 1ManBand

where would the presonus central stations converters stack up on these rankings?

in the nosebleed section....

if your looking for the best converters that are AFFORDABLE!! and are on a pc...go for the fireface800

ive compared these to digis and others that are much expensive. i can say..there is not enough difference to justify the money and id bet money on the fact that a lot of 'pros' would not be able to tell the diff in a blind test

[nickynicknick]

I find it hard to believe that anyone can comment effectively on 15 converters. That would mean you would have recorded at least a couple months (min) on each to really know.....

I have personally experienced the following and here is the order I would put them

UA 2192 Fabulous for tracking, printing mixes and clocking ......mid/high border only because it's probably useles at the mastering stage where others live at the top of the mountain

Apogee200/800 Really nice open sounding conversion... good mid level

Digi 192 Barely mid level IMO...not very smooth or realistic

MOTU 896 Really good low level conversion...like it mostly for all the features/interface

Digi 002 passable low level conversion I guess

MBox Hated everything about it


I really think you should separate it into Recording and Mastering. Two really different animals when it comes to converters.

Nick

[1ManBand]

geez that fire face 800 is expensive... im thinking about the lavry da10.. how does that compre to the fireface?

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by 1ManBand

geez that fire face 800 is expensive... im thinking about the lavry da10.. how does that compre to the fireface?

you only want DA and not AD?

if so, in that range, Id HIGHLY reccomend the Benchmark DAC1 over the lavry

[David Rick]

I've heard a number of high-end converters, but by no means all of them. Nor have I heard very many of them in direct comparisions where I thought extraneous variables like levels and clocking were adequately controlled. So when I put them into categories, I'm not sorting just on sonics -- I'm also considering what you might call "level of technical aspiration". In my ratings below, I've tried to note what makes a particular converter special in that regard. Converters within each group are listed alphabetically, because I don't presume to rank them.

Top tier: (these folks invented new stuff in pursuit of the best sound)
dCS (ring DAC)
DaD (pushing the envelope on PCM sample rate)
Grimm Audio (discrete voltage switching modulator)
Lavry Gold (hybrid networks and custom decimation filtering)
Meitner (DSD done carefully)
Prism Dream (sub-ranging conversion)
Prism Orpheus (digitally synthesized clock design)
Weiss (parallel conversion)

honorable mention:
Benchmark DAC1 (replacing PLL with SRC moved the bar at its price point)

Second tier: (journeyman designers making careful choices)
Apogee 16X
Apogee Rosetta
Crane Song HEDD
iZ Technology ADA
Lavry Black
Lavry Blue
Lynx Aurora
Mytek 8x192
Prism ADA-8

honorable mention:
Lynx Two (let's see you do this on a PCI card)

Consumer stuff:
Why bother listing it? This stuff looks good, but sounds awful.

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by David Rick

I've heard a number of high-end converters, but by no means all of them. Nor have I heard very many of them in direct comparisions where I thought extraneous variables like levels and clocking were adequately controlled. So when I put them into categories, I'm not sorting just on sonics -- I'm also considering what you might call "level of technical aspiration". In my ratings below, I've tried to note what makes a particular converter special in that regard. Converters within each group are listed alphabetically, because I don't presume to rank them.

Top tier: (these folks invented new stuff in pursuit of the best sound)
dCS (ring DAC)
DaD (pushing the envelope on PCM sample rate)
Grimm Audio (discrete voltage switching modulator)
Lavry Gold (hybrid networks and custom decimation filtering)
Meitner (DSD done carefully)
Prism Dream (sub-ranging conversion)
Prism Orpheus (digitally synthesized clock design)
Weiss (parallel conversion)

honorable mention:
Benchmark DAC1 (replacing PLL with SRC moved the bar at its price point)

Second tier: (journeyman designers making careful choices)
Apogee 16X
Apogee Rosetta
Crane Song HEDD
iZ Technology ADA
Lavry Black
Lavry Blue
Lynx Aurora
Mytek 8x192
Prism ADA-8

honorable mention:
Lynx Two (let's see you do this on a PCI card)

Consumer stuff:
Why bother listing it? This stuff looks good, but sounds awful.

Thanks a lot. A true gearlsutz

[Dirty Halo]

I even put that in my opening and I didn't follow my own sugestions!

Also, I'm not sure I "ranked" each group of top 5 in each cat., just my 5 favs of each level.

Ok, here we go with the "why's"...
HIGH END:

1. Weiss - Used At the Warehouse studios, I believe and had NEVER heard any coverter more true to the source.

2. Prism - The ONLY cnverter I've personally used that equalled the Weiss and worked easily with my PTHD set-up.

3. Lavry- Liked them a lot, some are AMAZING, liked thier PT integration, hard decision between the Apogees.

4. Apogee - Liked the fact that they did have a bit of a "tape" feel, which gave me some diversity with my Prism ADA-XR

5. Mytek - Used in a few studios and thought they were very solid.

MEDIUM:

1. Digi 192- I loved mine... until I heard the Prism. Ouch.

2. Benchmark - Used at a studio, good solid piece.

3. SSL - Felt these sounded really good and great bang for the buck, not quite as good as the prism and at the time seemed difficult for my PTHD set-up.

4. Lucid - These could be the victim of a bad studio experience. Sorry, just writing what I know. I guess that shows that a converter is as good as what comes before and after.

5. Prism Orpheus - Someone just said these are equal to the Prism ADA XR in converter quality... is that true? Is their a clock difference? They don't sound the same to me. Then I also had PTHD integration and DSD to consider.

LOW-END:

1. RME - Hated it.

2. Digi 003 - Bought for a "mobile" set-up, returned.

3. Digi M-Box - Also bought for a "mobile," on the road writing set-up, ALSO returned.

4. Lexicon Omega - Listened for the above, uuuh, nope.

5. M-Audio - Used for an on-the-road set-up and eventually gave up on that whole idea


So, those are my reasons for my picks. Not to say they are any more right or wrong than the next person. My order isn't so much a "ranking."

I'd love to know more about the Prism question, I even spoke with them a few days ago about another issue.

I'd be surprised if there was not SOME cost-cutting compromised, and I can't see them shooting themselves in the foot with their ADA XR series.

[Baz]

I still LOL @ the omission of RADAR. Seriously, this is laughable.

As someone mentioned, to accurately comment on 15+ converters is a tough bill but out of the 5 I've used (6th will be Aurora) RADAR has been King, hands down.

Now this said, I'm pretty disappointed with the uncompetitive pricing of the ADA and would have gone this route, if they were at least even in the price scope of the Lynx.

[mikymike]

Originally Posted by Fluxpod

HIGH END:

1. Lavry
2. Weiss
3. Prism
4. DaD
5. Mytek

MEDIUM:

1. Lynx
2. Benchmark
3. SSL
4. Prism Orpheus
5. Apogee

LOW-END:

1. RME
2. Echo
3. SonicCore
4. Digi 003
5. M-Audio


Imo.

HIGH END: Dynamic range

1. Lavry ?
2. Weiss 127
3. Prism 112
4. DaD 121
5. Mytek 123

MEDIUM:

1. Lynx 117
2. Benchmark ?
3. SSL 128
4. Prism Orpheus 116
5. Apogee 120

LOW-END:

1. RME 117
2. Echo 114
3. SonicCore 99
4. Digi 003 110 (192 = 120)
5. M-Audio 113