"Top 5" High-End/medium/Low-End converters...

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Baz

I still LOL @ the omission of RADAR. Seriously, this is laughable.

As someone mentioned, to accurately comment on 15+ converters is a tough bill but out of the 5 I've used (6th will be Aurora) RADAR has been King, hands down.

Now this said, I'm pretty disappointed with the uncompetitive pricing of the ADA and would have gone this route, if they were at least even in the price scope of the Lynx.

It's not on my least because I don't have experience with it. Same may be true for others.

It may be great. I know many people think so, but it'd be less-than-helpful to put it on a list without any real experience with it.

What's in YOUR wallet... uh, I mean list?

-andrews

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by mikymike

HIGH END: Dynamic range

1. Lavry ?
2. Weiss 127
3. Prism 112
4. DaD 121
5. Mytek 123

MEDIUM:

1. Lynx 117
2. Benchmark ?
3. SSL 128
4. Prism Orpheus 116
5. Apogee 120

LOW-END:

1. RME 117
2. Echo 114
3. SonicCore 99
4. Digi 003 110 (192 = 120)
5. M-Audio 113

Not really sure if I understand this... or where you are getting these or HOW the numbers are being used, but by your account the M-Audio is better than the Prism? !??

-andrews

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by Loki

High End:

DAD
Emm Labs
Lavry Gold
dCS
Prism

Med End:
Apogee
Mytek
Lavry Blue
Weiss
CraneSong

Low End:
Too many to mention

EXACTLY!

Regards,
Bruce

[Peacock]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

what would be YOUR top 5 converter picks in each category?

!

This is an interesting question but is hard to accurately list without considering which you prefer tracking vs mixing. I have limited experience with lots of different convertors but heres my list.

Tracking

1. IZ Radar - I have personally not heard anything better. Its warm but open.

2. Apogee - clear but more agressive than Radar


3. Mytek


Mixing

1. Mytek

2. Cranesong Hedd

3. Apogee

4. Radar (i did not like mixing back to Radar at all)


However, The best convertors in history are reel to reel tape decks.

[mikymike]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Not really sure if I understand this... or where you are getting these or HOW the numbers are being used, but by your account the M-Audio is better than the Prism? !??

-andrews

Not saying that at all, just listing the spec. But I do believe the dynamic range says a lot about a circuit.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

It's not on my least because I don't have experience with it. Same may be true for others.

It may be great. I know many people think so, but it'd be less-than-helpful to put it on a list without any real experience with it.

What's in YOUR wallet... uh, I mean list?

-andrews

Fair enough, I guess I just figured that iZ users woulda come out of the woodork sooner

I don't have enough experience with numerous converters to add much. I will add though that my experience with digidesign converters, in general, leave them all in the mid or low end cat's and at the lower end of the respective scales. Never been impressed with their stuff.

[Sofa King]

Originally Posted by Baz

Wow, no mention of RADAR in high end thus far? Amazing.......

yeah strange....

Ive tried the Prism, but stuck with the Radar, and after upgrading to the Super Nyquist cards, I found it to be pretty remarkable.



best,
Sean

[dobz]

How many converters have you actually head?
How can people make a 15 converter list if they haven't used 15

I've heard some and i'll just list them from best i've heard to worst.
1. Lavry Blue
2. Mytek
3. Apogee
4. Soundscape ibox
5. Digi 192
6. Lucid 8824
7. Presonus Firestudio (may be better than the digi 192 havn't heard the 192's in a while)
8. Echo audiofire 2 (just as good as the Firestudio)
9. Motu 828 (can't remember which number)
10. 002
11. Mbox

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by mikymike

HIGH END: Dynamic range

1. Lavry ?
2. Weiss 127
3. Prism 112
4. DaD 121
5. Mytek 123

MEDIUM:

1. Lynx 117
2. Benchmark ?
3. SSL 128
4. Prism Orpheus 116
5. Apogee 120

LOW-END:

1. RME 117
2. Echo 114
3. SonicCore 99
4. Digi 003 110 (192 = 120)
5. M-Audio 113

Those numbers seems mostly inaccurate. Where did you get them? Please check again.


/Peter

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by dobz

How many converters have you actually head?
How can people make a 15 converter list if they haven't used 15

I've heard some and i'll just list them from best i've heard to worst.
1. Lavry Blue
2. Mytek
3. Apogee
4. Soundscape ibox
5. Digi 192
6. Lucid 8824
7. Presonus Firestudio (may be better than the digi 192 havn't heard the 192's in a while)
8. Echo audiofire 2 (just as good as the Firestudio)
9. Motu 828 (can't remember which number)
10. 002
11. Mbox

Hi!

Did you listen to all of them in the same set up with the same material?


/Peter

[dobz]

Not all,
The mytek, lavry, echo and soundscape were on different setups. Actually all on much better speakers so i would of picked up any faults much easier.

But like I always say my opinion means nothing in the big picture. If your looking at one type of converter for your studio, get out there and try 10 in roughly the same price range.

[starfighter]

No mention of the Univeral Audio 2192?

I had some engineering friends over for a double blind test after reading how impressed Elliot Scheiner was; they blew the 192s and Apogee Rosetta out of the water

Colored? Maybe, but we all thought they made things sound remarkably "right". Tighter bass than the Apogees, better transient response than the 192 and a lot better imaging....

morten

[Transistor]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

LOW-END:

1. RME - Hated it.

Which one? There are a number of different RME converters.

r,
j,

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Transistor

Which one? There are a number of different RME converters.

r,
j,

For me, it definately was not their ADI or Mixstasy series. It was one of their project studio half rack types (not a good experience, I was spoiled by better studios).

-a

[Sirocco]

fireface 400 i assume

still the KING of that price range and a bit above even. i wont even count the symphony as its OS exclusive.

[Dirty Halo]

No need for a complete list... just rank the ones you have used and know.

(5 in each category is asking a lot of many people)


Share, share...


Oh, and to any Prism Orpheus owners, I'm still curious if the guts are REALLY the same as the Dream series.

-andrews

[IntenseJim]

This is a decent converter: XE - Universal Currency Converter

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by IntenseJim

This is a decent converter: XE - Universal Currency Converter

I have to disagree, I find it takes away the highs... at least here in the U.S.


-andrews

[David Rick]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Oh, and to any Prism Orpheus owners, I'm still curious if the guts are REALLY the same as the Dream series.

No, of course not. Neither is the ADA-8 series, or they couldn't have hit their (not very stringent) cost and size goals. The only sub-ranging ADC's I'm aware of are the Prism Dream, and the stage box for some wacky digital console that's probably out of production by now. It's very hard to make a sub-ranging converter that actually works well. As far as I know, Prism were the only ones who ever succeeded. But technology marches on, and I don't think there's much incentive for other designers to follow that path.

Incidentally, several of the important chips in Orpheus didn't even exist when the ADA-8 was designed. It's possible that the actual converter chips are the same as the ADA-8XR, although I haven't looked. But if the converter chips were all that mattered, then there wouldn't be any high end converter market, and we'd all be buying MOTU boxes.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by David Rick

No, of course not. Neither is the ADA-8 series, or they couldn't have hit their (not very stringent) cost and size goals. The only sub-ranging ADC's I'm aware of are the Prism Dream, and the stage box for some wacky digital console that's probably out of production by now. It's very hard to make a sub-ranging converter that actually works well. As far as I know, Prism were the only ones who ever succeeded. But technology marches on, and I don't think there's much incentive for other designers to follow that path.

Incidentally, several of the important chips in Orpheus didn't even exist when the ADA-8 was designed. It's possible that the actual converter chips are the same as the ADA-8XR, although I haven't looked. But if the converter chips were all that mattered, then there wouldn't be any high end converter market, and we'd all be buying MOTU boxes.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

Oh man, thank you... thought I was losing my mind. Someone on another thread was insisting they were of equal quality

-andrews

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

I even put that in my opening and I didn't follow my own sugestions!

Also, I'm not sure I "ranked" each group of top 5 in each cat., just my 5 favs of each level.

Ok, here we go with the "why's"...
HIGH END:

1. Weiss - Used At the Warehouse studios, I believe and had NEVER heard any coverter more true to the source.

2. Prism - The ONLY cnverter I've personally used that equalled the Weiss and worked easily with my PTHD set-up.

3. Lavry- Liked them a lot, some are AMAZING, liked thier PT integration, hard decision between the Apogees.

4. Apogee - Liked the fact that they did have a bit of a "tape" feel, which gave me some diversity with my Prism ADA-XR

5. Mytek - Used in a few studios and thought they were very solid.

MEDIUM:

1. Digi 192- I loved mine... until I heard the Prism. Ouch.

2. Benchmark - Used at a studio, good solid piece.

3. SSL - Felt these sounded really good and great bang for the buck, not quite as good as the prism and at the time seemed difficult for my PTHD set-up.

4. Lucid - These could be the victim of a bad studio experience. Sorry, just writing what I know. I guess that shows that a converter is as good as what comes before and after.

5. Prism Orpheus - Someone just said these are equal to the Prism ADA XR in converter quality... is that true? Is their a clock difference? They don't sound the same to me. Then I also had PTHD integration and DSD to consider.

LOW-END:

1. RME - Hated it.

2. Digi 003 - Bought for a "mobile" set-up, returned.

3. Digi M-Box - Also bought for a "mobile," on the road writing set-up, ALSO returned.

4. Lexicon Omega - Listened for the above, uuuh, nope.

5. M-Audio - Used for an on-the-road set-up and eventually gave up on that whole idea


So, those are my reasons for my picks. Not to say they are any more right or wrong than the next person. My order isn't so much a "ranking."
.

And where would your Hedd rank/opinion be in this?

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

And where would your Hedd rank/opinion be in this?

I think I may have said in an earlier post, there may be other obvious other converters, but I didn't want to make an endless list (nor the need for 5 if someone hasn't really used it), but I DO like the Hedd quite a bit.

For me personally, I needed more converters than it offered and the other features weren't a must for me (although I later added the Cransong plug to my collection) I dunno, it's a great converter, IMO, perfect combo of features for the right people, I just personally had those other features covered and JUST wanted convetters doing what they do the best, without paying for the other gizmos.

But, as a converter, I feel it is comfortably High-End.

If that makes sense. Eh, just my thinking, anyway.


-andrews

[Brian Lee]

Originally Posted by Peacock

The best convertors in history are reel to reel tape decks.

When many of us compare converters we are listening for degradation and choosing transparency. If you are using that same method of comparison then reel to reel tape, as nice as it may sound, is not the best converter in history.

Ever track drums to tape? Transient response doesn't come close to what a good converter today can replicate.

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

I even put that in my opening and I didn't follow my own sugestions!

Also, I'm not sure I "ranked" each group of top 5 in each cat., just my 5 favs of each level.

Ok, here we go with the "why's"...
HIGH END:

1. Weiss - Used At the Warehouse studios, I believe and had NEVER heard any coverter more true to the source.

2. Prism - The ONLY cnverter I've personally used that equalled the Weiss and worked easily with my PTHD set-up.

3. Lavry- Liked them a lot, some are AMAZING, liked thier PT integration, hard decision between the Apogees.

4. Apogee - Liked the fact that they did have a bit of a "tape" feel, which gave me some diversity with my Prism ADA-XR

5. Mytek - Used in a few studios and thought they were very solid.

MEDIUM:

1. Digi 192- I loved mine... until I heard the Prism. Ouch.

2. Benchmark - Used at a studio, good solid piece.

3. SSL - Felt these sounded really good and great bang for the buck, not quite as good as the prism and at the time seemed difficult for my PTHD set-up.

4. Lucid - These could be the victim of a bad studio experience. Sorry, just writing what I know. I guess that shows that a converter is as good as what comes before and after.

5. Prism Orpheus - Someone just said these are equal to the Prism ADA XR in converter quality... is that true? Is their a clock difference? They don't sound the same to me. Then I also had PTHD integration and DSD to consider.

LOW-END:

1. RME - Hated it.

2. Digi 003 - Bought for a "mobile" set-up, returned.

3. Digi M-Box - Also bought for a "mobile," on the road writing set-up, ALSO returned.

4. Lexicon Omega - Listened for the above, uuuh, nope.

5. M-Audio - Used for an on-the-road set-up and eventually gave up on that whole idea


So, those are my reasons for my picks. Not to say they are any more right or wrong than the next person. My order isn't so much a "ranking."

I'd love to know more about the Prism question, I even spoke with them a few days ago about another issue.

I'd be surprised if there was not SOME cost-cutting compromised, and I can't see them shooting themselves in the foot with their ADA XR series.

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

No need for a complete list... just rank the ones you have used and know.

(5 in each category is asking a lot of many people)


Share, share...


Oh, and to any Prism Orpheus owners, I'm still curious if the guts are REALLY the same as the Dream series.

-andrews

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Oh man, thank you... thought I was losing my mind. Someone on another thread was insisting they were of equal quality

-andrews

Hi,

have you compare the Orpheus with the ADA8 to tell that ?
I have tested the Orpheus a few weeks ago and it really amazing. I can't compare with the ADA8 but what i can say, is that you need to test it. Here is what Prism said :

While you could argue that the AD-2 is better with 130dB dynamic range, Orpheus has a better THD+N figure. In reality, the subjective differences between our converters are not that great - they are all pretty good. Each product serves a slightly different need - ADA-8XR is modular and flexible - perfect for tracking with Pro Tools, for example, but has the flexibility to work with a FW interface as well. Orpheus is dedicated to FW.

The Orpheus converters are an improvement over the ADA converters. Things like THD+N and dynamic range will perform better because, as you have said, of quality of the components that are available now.


The test i made was between a Rosetta 800, a Lavry Blue AD, an Orpheus and a Lavry Gold AD122 MKI (old design).
What i can say is that the Orpheus have a transparent conversion, with a lot of transient (very punchy), and the stereo is really amazing (3D).
I like the other unit like the Lavry (transparent and good stereo but with less transient than the Orpheus) and the Rosetta (it's solid and have a color so it's not transparent...). on this link there is more explication... And i will post a complete report as soon as possible with audio files.

It seem that the Orpheus is a good deal (since you don't need modularity like the ADA8) but now i wonder how it sounds compare to other unit like the AD2, Weiss, Lavry Gold new design,... Is there really a big improvement / difference between HIGH END convertors (AD2, Lavry Gold,Weiss...) and the Orpheus compare to the price difference... (14000$ minimum for 1 AD/DA and if you want 1 more DA for monitoring it will cost 21000$ against 5000$ for the Orpheus)
What do you think ?

Regards,

Lionel.

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Lion

Hi,

have you compare the Orpheus with the ADA8 to tell that ?
I have tested the Orpheus a few weeks ago and it really amazing. I can't compare with the ADA8 but what i can say, is that you need to test it. Here is what Prism said :

While you could argue that the AD-2 is better with 130dB dynamic range, Orpheus has a better THD+N figure. In reality, the subjective differences between our converters are not that great - they are all pretty good. Each product serves a slightly different need - ADA-8XR is modular and flexible - perfect for tracking with Pro Tools, for example, but has the flexibility to work with a FW interface as well. Orpheus is dedicated to FW.

The Orpheus converters are an improvement over the ADA converters. Things like THD+N and dynamic range will perform better because, as you have said, of quality of the components that are available now.


The test i made was between a Rosetta 800, a Lavry Blue AD, an Orpheus and a Lavry Gold AD122 MKI (old design).
What i can say is that the Orpheus have a transparent conversion, with a lot of transient (very punchy), and the stereo is really amazing (3D).
I like the other unit like the Lavry (transparent and good stereo but with less transient than the Orpheus) and the Rosetta (it's solid and have a color so it's not transparent...). on this link there is more explication... And i will post a complete report as soon as possible with audio files.

It seem that the Orpheus is a good deal (since you don't need modularity like the ADA8) but now i wonder how it sounds compare to other unit like the AD2, Weiss, Lavry Gold new design,... Is there really a big improvement / difference between HIGH END convertors (AD2, Lavry Gold,Weiss...) and the Orpheus compare to the price difference... (14000$ minimum for 1 AD/DA and if you want 1 more DA for monitoring it will cost 21000$ against 5000$ for the Orpheus)
What do you think ?

Regards,

Lionel.

I'll be honest, I get confused between the Prism distinction of the Prism Dream ADA-8XR or ADA, etc. Not sure if there are differences in quality or just different configurations.

I can say, the Prism Dream ADA-8XR is THE best converter I have used, but it also is configured to work with my Pro Tools HD system.

As for the Orpheus, I only experienced it in another studio, a lot of other factors in the chain, so it isn't a fair comparison and for me, it isn't an option until they find a way for it to interface with Pro Tools HD.

As for the price difference, that's where I get even more confused. I guess I just don't understand the massive price difference between two converters that they claim are of the same quality (or the cheaper one is better) ... and remember, they are STILL selling the Dream series, as far as I know. (It can't just be the fact that it can work with PTHD... I hope not )

Sooo, I have not answered ANY of your questions! Ha! Sorry, I too would like more insight into this great mystery.

I was going to call them directly, perhaps I'll have time Monday.


-andrews

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

I'll be honest, I get confused between the Prism distinction of the Prism Dream ADA-8XR or ADA, etc. Not sure if there are differences in quality or just different configurations.

I can say, the Prism Dream ADA-8XR is THE best converter I have used, but it also is configured to work with my Pro Tools HD system.

As for the Orpheus, I only experienced it in another studio, a lot of other factors in the chain, so it isn't a fair comparison and for me, it isn't an option until they find a way for it to interface with Pro Tools HD.

As for the price difference, that's where I get even more confused. I guess I just don't understand the massive price difference between two converters that they claim are of the same quality (or the cheaper one is better) ... and remember, they are STILL selling the Dream series, as far as I know. (It can't just be the fact that it can wo