Users of SSL AWS900: Share your opinions please

[The MPCist]

From the few AWS threads on this forum, it seems that there are people who've bought this already.

Can you share your thoughts on its sonic quality, its headroom, its overal 'sound', etc? How's it doing 'in the real world'?

Also, does the moving fader automate the audio at the desk (not the audio level coming from PT)?

I'm seriously thinking of buying one and would love to hear from owners of this console.

(I've been looking at consoles for the past year but this really perks my interest).

[Riad]

Let me second that.

[drew]

I don't own one but did just see a quick demo yesterday. From what I understand SSL is currently looking into using a send from PT to the audio fader (which in turn is controlled by the DAW layer) as a way of implementing automation. It's an interesting piece, cool in some ways and inadequate and overpriced in others. Haven't made up my mind about it yet. It's built a lot better than the ICON, I'll say that. It's really like a mini console with heavy duty metal frame and excellent knobs, faders and buttons etc....

[jdunn]

One of the engineers at Radio Recorders told me that SSL brought it in for a demo there a while back. They really liked it, and were even more excited when the SSL guys told them it would sell for around $35,000 - $40,000. Then, the worst possible thing that could have happened did! Guitar Center was given an exclusive on it, and the price jumped to $89,000.



Uhh, yeah guy, let's sell SSL only through Guitar Center! The genius who approved this brilliant marketing ploy should be fired immediately. If it were priced as originally intended, I'm sure there would be much more of a buzz about it, and they would be selling like crazy.

[drew]

wow, really? That doesn't sound right, you'd think GC would try to drive the price down to their market, SSL is the one used to selling $400k desks. The faders alone on the AWS900 are probably $15k. You're right though because at that price point I'd be buying one!!!

[jdunn]

Those 24 faders cost $15,000? Wow! Anyway, even if the AWS 900 was priced closer to $50,000, it would be making a much bigger splash I think.

[raal]

i'm very interested in this board too - have posted this in another thread but no answer, maybe i can get one here:

what i'd like to know is if (with protools) anyone has tried taking either the fifth (bottom) insert for every channel or the fifth (bottom) send (pre-fader) and run it out an analog output of a PT interface and into the SSL, this way getting a pre-fader direct output from each channel in the PT mixer.

since the SSL is also a control surface, its faders can be used to write automation curves to the PT mixer. thus the faders in PT will give you a visual representation of the actual faders on the SSL. when you play back the PT session, it'll do its fader moves as usual (even though there's no audio running through them) - but the analog faders on the SSL should move with the Pro Tools automation just like a HUI would.

if this is so, there's the fader automation! i've seen this discussed in different forums but no one has said they've actually tried it.

i'm very interested in the board, but without (analog) fader automation, it's a no go.

the day they make the thing expandable (to at least 32 channels) and sell recallabale dynamics for it (even in outboard form), IMHO they'll be punching 'em out like legos.

[TXDigi]

I got the demo at SSL NYC and was very impressed.... but once again no analog fader control.... no sell

the fron elbow bumper was a little flimsy. not a bar you could sit or lean on the edge of... it would break right off.

The console feels amazing.. like you woould expect an SSL to feel. Very different from the mushroom knobs on the DControl

and I won buy one from GC... if SSL wont sell direct, I'll pass

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

I had a demo of one recently and was blown away.. simply amazing. This is one tool that has been well thought out and implemented. not sure if they will do bigger frame sizes etc but you never know.

And yes i too heard there was going to be audio control for the faders so it will be a REAL console then... the only feature i can think of that its currently lacking.

Wiggy

[The MPCist]

At the demo, was there any talk of comparisions to the XL?

[Faderjockey]

Yes they said it was the same internal workings as the XL logic rack gear and XL console. Haven't used the XL stuff don't know. I played with it for about a half hour. After I asked "What does it sound like" There was to much talk about it being this cool controller...I was like who cares i want to hear it. So the dude was cool left the room and I messed with it. I thought the EQ sounded great and the board does feel awesome. But like everyone else has said in the past. I could have lived with out the pres and taken automation first. maybe they should have made a tracking version and a mix version....But it's alot of cake for 24ch and no automation. I do like the Audio/DAW idea just like to see more power on the audio side.

The other thing is..it's alot smaller then I thought it would be. They must have used a horse jockey in the Ads. Because it's not very deep and some one with Fat fingers would have a tough time getting to the switches in the EQ/Aux section. But did sound good....Just much $$$ for what you get I think.

[jdunn]

Yeah, 24 channels of expensive SSL mic pres are practically killing this product. Look at the cost of the new SSL rack stuff. It's not cheap. Why add that much cost to something that's made for mixing?

SSL needs to come out with another version w/o the pres. And everyone seems to want more compressors. So, what they need to do is replace the stupid mic pres w/ compressors, and get that fader automation implemented. And lower the price.

Perhaps one of you who knows the SSL guys could politely suggest this. Oh, and get rid of Guitar Center. Morons! I suspect this will happen anyway, due to the lack of sales.

[C.Lambrechts]

My opinion could be looked upon as not neutral
Indeed it isn't
Different strokes for different folks I guess
Interesting however to read how people think about it

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by jdunn
SSL needs to come out with another version w/o the pres. And everyone seems to want more compressors. So, what they need to do is replace the stupid mic pres w/ compressors, and get that fader automation implemented. And lower the price.

To add 24 compressors/gates/expanders would drive the price up even more or pretty much keep it the same.

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

I dont think that removing the pre's will save an enourmous amount of $$ for both the MFG and the end user. They are not expensive discrete pre's chock full of elma switches and pots and transformers.... it more about a bag of chips ( albeit very good sounding ones being omitted from the design).

If it had 1073 type front end input stages im sure we are definately talking about a decent and tangible saving to us slutz..

Just putting it out there
Wiggy

[stealthbalance]

haha c.l.

too funny

s

[jdunn]

Okay, Thrill and Wiggy are both correct. Why add compressors when you can just insert the ones you already have? So everyone stop complaining about the fact that it only has 2 comps then! (But at $89,000 it should have more comps and/or analog fader automation, no?).

And yes, the SSL mic pres are not expensive to build. My point was that they're probably adding quite a bit to the end user price due to their inclusion, based on what is being charged for the new outboard line. Maybe they put 24 channels of pres on there as a freebie. I doubt it though. If the choice of Guitar Center as exclusive dealer is any indication, SSL is just not quite hitting the nail on the head at the moment.

Perhaps it was simply easier for them to include the mic pres then to re-design their circuitry without them! This is my best guess. Anyway, as C.L. has cleverly elucidated, can't they come up with something better than MIDI as a control language for these things?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by jdunn
Okay, Thrill and Wiggy are both correct. Why add compressors when you can just insert the ones you already have? So everyone stop complaining about the fact that it only has 2 comps then! (But at $89,000 it should have more comps and/or analog fader automation, no?).

Lets look at a little analog console history shall we.

How many consoles in the history have had dynamics on each channel and were less than a $100 grand when released?

I can think of only 3 of hand:

1) Amek Media 5.1-$65K

2) Soundtracs Jade-$49K

3) Amek BIG-$35-40K

How many of the three had a dynamic section which was usable?

None.

How many of the three had VCA automation?

All.

How many had moving faders?

None.



They all have more inputs, but have a mixbuss that craps out when hit at ful tilt(all inputs at once).

That's 3 out of how many consoles were ever made?

Having all of the functions that you see on digital consoles is still an expensive proposition in the analog domain.

Total reset is another function people who are use to working in the digital domain love, but even that is just as rare on analog console(SSL,Harrison,Euphonix,Tactile Technology and that's about it).

[jlotto]

perfectly put.

Gonna wait til they work the kinks out with these new optional features til we take the plunge.

[nukmusic]

To add 24 compressors/gates/expanders would drive the price up even more or pretty much keep it the same.

ya it would....................maybe the price will start to drop in the next few months or so, It's still new you know...........ICON is still being sold at "LIST PRICE" also($80g-16 faders).....and you can only use it with Protools.........well that until the next year when Digi drops the new ICON ACCEL supaduda captain caveman controller.

having any of you priced a 24 fader XL9000k?
I'm thinking at least $250,000..............peep:

Hi Docta'J,

Thank you for your interest in the XL 9000K Series console. The XL
9048K Series with 24 channels SuperPre, remote patch and two producer's
desks is
$595,000. Your price would be better than that.

[Groove.com.tw]

To what other console does the AWS900 compare in sonic quality?

How about against the Amek Media 51? Would it top this?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by nukmusic
maybe the price will start to drop in the next few months or so, It's still new you know...........

What do you consider a price drop?

$5K in maybe 5 years?

That is still $79K.

I think they will keep it in this price range to seperate people who can afford it(professionals that do commercials) and people who can't(people at home that do music).

Actually that will help quality control better.

They can support it fully.

The only drawback is that they won't sell as many.

But for the people that do music it will just force them to book studio time at a place with a full SSL setup.

Which in the end may not be a bad thing.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Groove.com.tw
To what other console does the AWS900 compare in sonic quality?

How about against the Amek Media 51? Would it top this?

What does it compare to sonically?


Its an SSL...that says it all.

The Media 51 is an Amek board.

That says it all.

[jdunn]

I think they will keep it in this price range to seperate people who can afford it(professionals that do commercials) and people who can't(people at home that do music).

So you're saying that the AWS 900 is aimed at the post houses? That makes the choice of Guitar Center as exclusive distributor even stranger to me.

Or do you mean that they just want to keep it away from 'project' studios so they don't have to deal with ridiculous support issues, etc...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by jdunn
So you're saying that the AWS 900 is aimed at the post houses? That makes the choice of Guitar Center as exclusive distributor even stranger to me.

Or do you mean that they just want to keep it away from 'project' studios so they don't have to deal with ridiculous support issues, etc...

I am saying both.

The ICON's biggest clients will be post houses.

A successful post house will pay for the ICON within a year or two because the business is consistent and always there.

Same goes for the AWS.

The AWS works great for them because its an all in one solution.

Working a post house you have to work fast and for long hours.

A project studio is a project studio.

Its supposed to be based on project to project basis to pay for itself(and lets face it that rarely happens).

The projects being handed out with the majors are getting less and less.

First call are still the big sound motels here in NYC(that's because they are giving so many great deals in order to survive).


Its is still more feasble for them.

The independent projects don't pay that much unless you do a lot of them.


Most studios when they make major purchases think in 5 year plans.

4-5 year lease to pay off.

A lease on the AWS will probably end up being at the end of 5 years $125K(with the TR option) which comes out to roughly $25K per year.

How many project studios can commit to doing that at the moment?

If you can't, than the AWS is not for you.

Stick with the summing box with the DAW auto.

[syra]

I talked to one of the main designers at AES...I told him what I'd like to see from a mixers prospective in the affordable sense...

Drop the pres...he said it wouldn't make a dramatic difference in the cost...I said what about this:

Drop the Pres, the Eqs and the Comps...drop everything BUT:

the controller part, 24 inputs, Inserts, Sends and the Master section with the comp...

ADD moving faders on the analog side...and deliver it for under 50K...

The result is 24 channels of SSL quality leading to an awesome master section...

He was somewhat interested...he seemed to be surprised with my suggestions in a "do you think anyone would buy this?" kind of way...I know I would...what do you guys think?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by syra
IHe was somewhat interested...he seemed to be surprised with my suggestions in a "do you think anyone would buy this?" kind of way...I know I would...what do you guys think?

Part of the whole benefit to working on the SSL is not just routing options,summing buss and auto.

Its also the EQ's(which i think are underated) and the dynamics.

You take that away and that is a big part of its character.

I can live without the dynamics, but without the EQ's i don't think so.tutt

[drew]

Originally posted by jdunn
So you're saying that the AWS 900 is aimed at the post houses? That makes the choice of Guitar Center as exclusive distributor even stranger to me.

Or do you mean that they just want to keep it away from 'project' studios so they don't have to deal with ridiculous support issues, etc...

existing SSL clients can bypass GC and buy direct.

[syra]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Part of the whole benefit to working on the SSL is not just routing options,summing buss and auto.

Its also the EQ's(which i think are underated) and the dynamics.

You take that away and that is a big part of its character.

I can live without the dynamics, but without the EQ's i don't think so.tutt

What I was thinking Thrill is an effective way to cut cost to under 50K...I agree that the Eqs would be nice...but looking at it from an ITB prospective its not the lack of good outboard eqs that leaves me wanting more...its the sound and the power to drive things...or even better, the forgiving nature of analogue...

[jdunn]

Without the eq's, you might as well just go for a summing box. I agree w/ Thrill here. A new SSL w/ 24 channels of eq (2 flavors) and the bus comp for under $100,000 is a first. It will fill a niche.