Peluso P12 - Build Quality?

[Brent]

Can any P12 owners testify to the build quality of these? Other than the NOS tube, are the internal parts of high quality or just run of the mill caps and such? From what I understand it's a china capsule but finished in the US?

[kittonian]

It is not a Chinese capsule. The P12's metal work comes from overseas but the capsule and the rest of the workings are hand-made in Virginia by John Peluso. It's a very high quality microphone and one that our customers have had nothing but amazing things to say about. A stereo pair of P12's is my absolute favorite drum OH setup.

[cortisol]

How about replies from people who don't have a vested self-interest in the product. Non gear pimp relies only.

Peace,
cortisol

[u b k]

Originally Posted by cortisol

How about replies from people who don't have a vested self-interest in the product. Non gear pimp relies only.

that would seem to rule out p12 owners as well.

afaict, owners are the biggest pimps of all (of the things they own). it's a different form of vested interest, but the bias is at least as big, if not bigger. i'm at least as guilty of this as the next guy.

fwiw, i don't own the p12 but i'm a big fan. they are not what i would consider 'built like a tank' compared to, say, a charter oak. but they're not exactly waiting to fall apart either, and with due care and normal wear and tear they ought to last as long as any other ldc.


gregoire
del
ubk
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[mics]

hi mate, the p12 is a great mic, credit where credit is due, if you want a non pimper, i am the perfect candidate. but the tube is more like a NIS rather than NOS (NIS is new in stock) just do yourself a favour and buy a good 6072 once you get teh mic, it will then blow you away. cheers.

[in the red]

anybody got pictures of the inside?

[Johnkenn]

I've had three 2247LE's...The first two had no structural problems, but one of the EF14's died. I sent it back to John and he replaced it quickly. The last one had a couple of issues. The basket came out of the head assembly (slightly) and the threading on the mic was screwy. I've used a P12 and a 22251 too. The 2247LE and P12 are really nice mics - the best in their price range.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

I've had three 2247LE's...The first two had no structural problems, but one of the EF14's died. I sent it back to John and he replaced it quickly. The last one had a couple of issues. The basket came out of the head assembly (slightly) and the threading on the mic was screwy. I've used a P12 and a 22251 too. The 2247LE and P12 are really nice mics - the best in their price range.

Thanks for the comments all. I didn't realize the peluso didn't come with a NOS. The other mic I"m looking at in this 'class' is a Telefunken M16 MKII. Does anyone know the quality of parts 'inside' these microphones?


John was there something you didn't like about the 22251 soundwise? I heard the P12 on your shoutouts and I thought it was pretty impressive.

[kafka]

Originally Posted by u b k

afaict, owners are the biggest pimps of all (of the things they own). it's a different form of vested interest, but the bias is at least as big, if not bigger. i'm at least as guilty of this as the next guy.

I hate to say it, but human nature being what it is, this is probably true.

That said, my totally worthless, over-invested opinion of my 2247 LE is that the build quality is very solid. The first thing I did when I got it was to open it up to see what was inside. Everything looked as neat and secure as I could have wanted. I haven't opened up my CEMC6's, but I haven't had any issues with them, and they feel solid.

As far as the internal parts goes, what are you looking for? There are a total of 10 parts on the 2247 LE board, plus the EF12; a couple of Xicon electrolytics for power filtering, a handful of high tolerance resistors, a couple of other caps, and one large rectangular part I didn't recognize marked "U47 250".

Nothing looked like a cheap Radio Shack carbon film resistor, if that's what you mean (not that there's anything wrong with them if they happen to be the right part for the job). I have an MSEE, and personally I don't sweat these details. It either sounds right or it doesn't. Cheap parts last, too. And when they don't, they can be replaced cheaply. With any engineered product it's the organization and selection of the components that you're paying for anyway - and not the components themselves.

[kittonian]

Originally Posted by cortisol

How about replies from people who don't have a vested self-interest in the product. Non gear pimp relies only.

Peace,
cortisol

Just curious about how me setting straight the factual information about where the parts are made on this mic translates into me having a vested interest. Sure, I made a comment about how much I like the P12's on OH's but so what?

You said it was a Chinese capsule. I set the record straight and said, no it's not. Whether or not I sell these mics, happen to use these mics, or whatever, doesn't change the fact that you posted mis-information.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by kittonian

You said it was a Chinese capsule. I set the record straight said, no it's not. Whether or not I sell these mics, happen to use these mics, or whatever, doesn't change the fact that you posted mis-information.

It was my post that suggested it was a Chinese capsule. Anyhow, my understanding was the capsules were actually machined in China and skinned here?

[kafka]

Originally Posted by Brent

It was my post that suggested it was a Chinese capsule. Anyhow, my understanding was the capsules were actually machined in China and skinned here?

Don't hide behind misinformation, misunderstanding, or red herrings. The capsule is manufactured in Virginia. If you have a direct source that says otherwise, print it. But keep rumors and misinformation to yourself. This is how honest, responsible people behave.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by kafka

This is how honest, responsible people behave.

can you please share your source for that rule?


gregoire
del
ubk
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[kafka]

Originally Posted by u b k

can you please share your source for that rule?

Ummm, I hope you're joking here, and I'm just humor-impaired. The "rule" is obvious - practically by definition. Just look at the opposite, i.e. people who spread rumors and misinformation. How would you describe that? Would you call it honest? Would you call it responsible?

[cortisol]

Hi Kittonian - I meant no disrespect but rather wanted the people who own the mics just to speak up. Satisfied owners can speak of their enjoyment and of the reliability.

I do actually enjoy your contributions to the forums so don't feel slighted.

UBK - I know people are buying into products and end up chearing for the brand like it's their football team etc but ultimately anyone who has had negative experiences of ownership such as recuring faults or bad experiences with a regards to cutsomer support will chime in.

I kind of think of it as a statistical way of gathering info.

So when a dealer chimes in too soon it seems like the pitbull is defending its turf rather than things being more open for contributions from people with nothing to loose. It doesn't mean in any way that the dealer isn't actually being honest and helpful. Just maybe hold off a little while and give chance for neutral contributions to be made.

We're just passing on our experiences and sharing info for our passion for recording and recording equipment. In that spirit..

Peace,
cortisol

[Brent]

Originally Posted by kafka

Don't hide behind misinformation, misunderstanding, or red herrings. The capsule is manufactured in Virginia. If you have a direct source that says otherwise, print it. But keep rumors and misinformation to yourself. This is how honest, responsible people behave.

What exactly am I hiding from again? Don't be ridiculous now.

A quick google search by someone attempting to research the subject of the origin of a peluso capsules finds several hits that indicate this explicitly.

Here are just one example from what one would expect to be a reputable source? If this has changed or is different for the P12 from the 47 I can't find any info about it on the peluso site ( maybe I missed it?)

Peluso 2247SE

The mic is supplied in a nice, foam-lined wooden box, along with an elastic spider shockmount (the classic Neumann design). The power supply is modelled to look very similar to vintage units, with a 'hammered', gunmetal-grey paint finish, and vintage-style toggle switches and knobs. Although the mic is marketed as being hand-built in America, it seems that these are largely Chinese parts. The fake Neutrik connectors on the seven-pin cable, carrying the 'Legun' name, are an obvious clue, but so too is the engineering of the metalwork. However, the Chinese have quickly become very skilled microphone-capsule manufacturers, so I wouldn't necessarily hold the source of the components up as a black mark, and Peluso have a fine reputation and a considerable amount of experience in repairing and reworking vintage microphones and capsules — so they should know how to build an accurate-sounding replica!

[kittonian]

Notice that it says "it seems" not "it is for sure". The reality is that only the metal work is made overseas for the 2247LE, 2247SE and P12. Sure, some of the lower priced Peluso mics have a bit more manufactured overseas but all go through the hands of Peluso in Virginia and you might be surprised to know that he swaps out some of those overseas components for better components because of Peluso's commitment to quality.

Hope that helps!

[lord_bunny]

Originally Posted by mics

hi mate, the p12 is a great mic, credit where credit is due, if you want a non pimper, i am the perfect candidate. but the tube is more like a NIS rather than NOS (NIS is new in stock) just do yourself a favour and buy a good 6072 once you get teh mic, it will then blow you away. cheers.

Happy P12 owner here. Which style of 6072 do you recommend? I'm into experimenting with another tube, but my second question is what did you feel changed about it's character?

Cheers

[Brent]

Originally Posted by kittonian

Notice that it says "it seems" not "it is for sure". The reality is that only the metal work is made overseas for the 2247LE, 2247SE and P12. Sure, some of the lower priced Peluso mics have a bit more manufactured overseas but all go through the hands of Peluso in Virginia and you might be surprised to know that he swaps out some of those overseas components for better components because of Peluso's commitment to quality.

Hope that helps!

Thanks. There are countless other's like this well. Most notably JRR shop lists in all their descriptions of Peluso mics that the machine work for the capsules is done in China. As well, you can find even in the review section of the Peluso site reference to this which I believe is for the 251.

Peluso Microphone Lab

Anyhoo, I don't really care that it's Chinese or not, the point was that I'm not just rambling off about this here half cocked. The previous poster made me out to have some sort of agenda. But, by all means, let's stop the he said she said. I just sent John an email asking him directly, that should settle it once and for all.

So back to the topic at hand. Again I'm considering buying this mic to contrast with some of the 47 flavors I already have. The M16 MKII is about at the same price point. Has anyone tried both?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by lord_bunny

Happy P12 owner here. Which style of 6072 do you recommend? I'm into experimenting with another tube, but my second question is what did you feel changed about it's character?

Cheers

How much is a quality NOS replacement I wonder?

[johnnyjellybean]

Originally Posted by Brent

Thanks for the comments all. I didn't realize the peluso didn't come with a NOS. The other mic I"m looking at in this 'class' is a Telefunken M16 MKII. Does anyone know the quality of parts 'inside' these microphones?


John was there something you didn't like about the 22251 soundwise? I heard the P12 on your shoutouts and I thought it was pretty impressive.

I owned both and I still own the M16 MKII. I love it more everyday. The p12 was sold not long after I bought the Telefunken. I found the M16 MKII to be what the P12 was trying to be. The Tele has a similar vibe but with a much warmer "vintage vibe" to it.

[johnnyjellybean]

Originally Posted by Brent

How much is a quality NOS replacement I wonder?

a NOS GE 12ay7 (6072) will run you $15 to $20

[Brent]

Originally Posted by johnnyjellybean

I owned both and I still own the M16 MKII. I love it more everyday. The p12 was sold not long after I bought the Telefunken. I found the M16 MKII to be what the P12 was trying to be. The Tele has a similar vibe but with a much warmer "vintage vibe" to it.

Originally Posted by johnnyjellybean

a NOS GE 12ay7 (6072) will run you $15 to $20

Thanks Mr Bean Did you grab yours from Economik? Those prices seem pretty reasonable for NOS tubes as well.

[johnnyjellybean]

Originally Posted by Brent

Thanks Mr Bean Did you grab yours from Economik? Those prices seem pretty reasonable for NOS tubes as well.

No I actually got it 2nd hand. The NOS tubes they use are actually GE JAN and I found that by swapping out for a real GE NOS 12ay7 the mic actually sounded even warmer. There was a M16 MKII that recently sold on Ebay for $900 so there are great deals out for used ones. The NOS GE 12ay7s' I bought at that price were on Ebay. I got 2 landed at my door for $25

[kafka]

Originally Posted by Brent

What exactly am I hiding from again? Don't be ridiculous now.

A quick google search by someone attempting to research the subject of the origin of a peluso capsules finds several hits that indicate this explicitly.

Here are just one example from what one would expect to be a reputable source? If this has changed or is different for the P12 from the 47 I can't find any info about it on the peluso site ( maybe I missed it?)

Peluso 2247SE

Well, what you're hiding from is taking responsibility for your words. You hide behind phrases like "it's my understanding", without pointing out where you got your understanding. This is how one repeats a rumor, or inflates something insignificant to importance, without taking responsibility for having said it.

And then your source, the person says it "seems" like it uses Chinese components. Well, are they, or aren't they? And which ones are, and which ones aren't? Since you're the one with the "understanding", why do you point to a source that only "seems" to know the truth?

Then, when someone who does know the product, who cannot misrepresent it without encountering liability, does in fact correct you, you insult them and tell them their input isn't welcome. And then, you go on and repeat the rumor, once again couching your words instead of stating factual sources?

Gee, I don't know. How does all this sound to you?

[Soldier777c]

Nothing but great things to say about the P12 . . . people who have heard it over at my place all are dumbfounded when I tell them it's a $1200 mic. That mic can hold it's own up there with any of them (sound-wise).

[Brent]

Originally Posted by kafka

Then, when someone who does know the product, who cannot misrepresent it without encountering liability, does in fact correct you, you insult them and tell them their input isn't welcome.
Gee, I don't know. How does all this sound to you?

I don't recall telling anyone there input wasn't welcome. If you review my posts there is actually a QUESTION mark at the end of the sentence. I guess this would indicate I'm asking for clarification?

And who could not represent it without encountering liability? Liability of what? Kittonian says that the 47 doesn't use chinese cap parts. JRR shop who has the same status of 'distributor' quotes the same mics as using chinese cap parts but being skinned in the U.S. Sounds like one is being more forthcoming than the other regarding the origins of the mic parts and assembly.

I mean really, you're on here pissing on my thread acting all holier than thou, but where are your links, citations that say EXPLICITLY the caps are machined and skinned in the U.S. Where are Kittonians if we're going to play this game?

I know full well that BOTH companies use product from China. My only agenda here is to decide which to purchase based on build quality. What's your agenda here?

I suggest you take your own advice before pissing on anyone else's threads. If you have something constructive to actually offer regarding the thread topic, please do it. ( and don't forget your citations )

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Soldier777c

Nothing but great things to say about the P12 . . . people who have heard it over at my place all are dumbfounded when I tell them it's a $1200 mic. That mic can hold it's own up there with any of them (sound-wise).

Ya it's definitely a great price point and the one I heard JohnKenn use just sounded amazing up against the more expensive mics he had their. Obviously I don't have John's voice but it made me take a serious look at this mic.

[mics]

Ok lets set the record straight. Peluso Microphone Lab does NOT Completely build it's own Capsules. The Capsule metalwork is imported from China, as is the spacers, rings and screws. Then John does the diaphragm tensioning and assembly. If anyone tells you otherwise, it is a lie. This is a well known fact. Manufacturing Capsule backplates is an art in itself. This process is the same for the P12, 2247LE and SE etc. hope this helps. Ben

[kittonian]

Originally Posted by mics

Ok lets set the record straight. Peluso Microphone Lab does NOT Completely build it's own Capsules. The Capsule metalwork is imported from China, as is the spacers, rings and screws. Then John does the diaphragm tensioning and assembly. If anyone tells you otherwise, it is a lie. This is a well known fact. Manufacturing Capsule backplates is an art in itself. This process is the same for the P12, 2247LE and SE etc. hope this helps. Ben

As I have always said. The "metalwork" comes from China. Who cares where it comes from honestly, it's just metalwork (not directed at you mics, just making an observation). Metal is metal. It's cost prohibitive to have the exact same metal made here in the USA. The fact is that the capsules are made here in the USA by John.

If you build a chair and use nails that were made in China does that make your chair Chinese? No, of course not. Nor does it affect the "build quality". The bottom line is that the Peluso mics are rock solid and backed up by John Peluso himself. Customers are taken care of when issues arise (few and far between but it does happen, just as it happens to any other manufacturer) and if/when you need John, he's usually happy to speak with you directly.