apogee AD/DAx OR Lynx Aurora OR ssl alpha/delta link

[gigpiglet]

Hi all.
a long time reading and not much posting (usually find what i want just from looking)
I have a question about convertors and PT HD interfacing. but first some background:

Have PT HD2 on mac G5 (currently with 96io and 888)
mixing OTB with:
console is DDA DMR12
meyer HD1 and tannoy monitors
loads of outboard including neve/ quad 8/ UA (new) midas/ BSS/ distressors/ peach/ dbx etc.
the full list is not important - the point is that this is a pro studio.

I want to upgrade the PT interfaces, and preferably get away from digi altogether.
Need to end up with a minimum 16in/ 24 out. would prefer 32 out. and if the way the boxes add up mean that i have more ins - than that is a bonus.
as i see it the options are:

Apogee 1x ADX and 2x DAX

Lynx 2x Aurora 16

SSL 1x alpha link and 1x Delta link (for direct madi connection)

can anyone offer comparisons between these options?

i have heard (and love) apogee sound.
i have heard (and think that it is on par) lynx
i have not heard SSL option.
having said that - i think that all 3 are professional, quality solutions.

the things that i want to compare with these options (in order of importance) are:
i/o for the money
continuing support/ functionality with pro tools and future upgrades
ease of use
reliability
ability to upgrade/ expand
recognition/ name/ respect of brand from clients

thanks in advance

[kosmokrator]

I cannot comment on the other options, but our studio has the 2*DA-16X and 1*-AD-16X-solution.

I think this is good as it can get. Besides the (superb) sound, the Apogees have several good sides:

- just 1HE per unit
- no fans (cool if you have your computers outside the room
- with the advanced-routing, you get 16 additional digital I/O for free (we could sell our 192digital)
- perfectly easy calibration

So, I really can recommend that solution.

Sebastian

[gigpiglet]

thanks sebastion.
the apogees are most likely going to be the solution...
especially because of the ease of integrating them into the system, and the fact that i think they are most likely to stay "current" with pro tools...

does anyone have any further thoughts?

[TheChariot]

I'm definitely interested in this thread as well.

What are the odds that the Aurora will not work with future versions of PT?

[kittonian]

Originally Posted by TheChariot

I'm definitely interested in this thread as well.

What are the odds that the Aurora will not work with future versions of PT?

The LT-HD is coded in such a way that Digi would literally have to break every single 192 i/o and/or 96 i/o on the market, and even then Lynx would simply do a firmware update and you'd be back and running.

[PhilE]

I have not used the Lynx but the SSL sounds far clearer to my ears than the Apogee option.
I use HD2 running into a DDA Profile through the SSL via ADAT on 96io and 192 digital.
I am saying this despite the fact that my unit has twice developed faults and is currently waiting to go back for repair. The SSL is a great sounding solution.
If you do the Delta Link solution you will spend less money for more io and only have to buy a second MADI AX to achieve 64 io. Cost up that on an Apogee! And then work with each for a bit! SSL every time for me.

[rouslan]

One thing that annoys me is the fact that Apogee will not release drivers for the PC platform. Should you ever decide to move to say Samplitude, for example, your converters along with Symphony and Maestro are useless. Just a point to remember.

[gigpiglet]

thanks PhilE.

what exactly has been the problem with your unit (and returning it for repairs.)
to me - doesnt really matter how good it sounds if it doesnt work!
has anyone else had similar problems with the SSL converters.
thanks for your thoughts on the sound (and point about 64io with only a small additional cost)

[dlmorley]

Been using my SSL without issue for a while now. Excellent sounding converters. 24 i/o in 2u and I prefer one unit than 2 or 4 linked units.
I like the fact that they are pretty neutral but in a good way. The low end etends VERY low down and the high end is not harsh at all but all there.
All in my opinion of course and I haven't done A/B but have heard the others and I doubt anyone would call the SSL worse, just different.

[toolstudio]

Hi,

48 Channel Apogee 16x over here, and I must say I'm really impressed how
musical these are.
As a die hard tape fan I was always disillused when using digital esp. DD 192s.
But now, I must say with the Apogee's I'm close to happy with digital multitrack... :-)

wolfgang

[Dirty Halo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the SSL just a re-badged version of some company they bought, some sort of low-endish converter whose name I can't even remember.

I believe this is true. They just slapped the SSL name on it, new face plate.

-andrews

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by gigpiglet

Hi all.
a long time reading and not much posting (usually find what i want just from looking)
I have a question about convertors and PT HD interfacing. but first some background:

Have PT HD2 on mac G5 (currently with 96io and 888)
mixing OTB with:
console is DDA DMR12
meyer HD1 and tannoy monitors
loads of outboard including neve/ quad 8/ UA (new) midas/ BSS/ distressors/ peach/ dbx etc.
the full list is not important - the point is that this is a pro studio.

I want to upgrade the PT interfaces, and preferably get away from digi altogether.
Need to end up with a minimum 16in/ 24 out. would prefer 32 out. and if the way the boxes add up mean that i have more ins - than that is a bonus.
as i see it the options are:

Apogee 1x ADX and 2x DAX

Lynx 2x Aurora 16

SSL 1x alpha link and 1x Delta link (for direct madi connection)

can anyone offer comparisons between these options?

i have heard (and love) apogee sound.
i have heard (and think that it is on par) lynx
i have not heard SSL option.
having said that - i think that all 3 are professional, quality solutions.

the things that i want to compare with these options (in order of importance) are:
i/o for the money
continuing support/ functionality with pro tools and future upgrades
ease of use
reliability
ability to upgrade/ expand
recognition/ name/ respect of brand from clients

thanks in advance

2 Aurora 16's with LT-HD cards = 64 I/O [TO/FROM; PT: 32 AD/DA, 32 AES I/O] Set calibration, limited to +4 or -10 settings, AES I/O adds 16 I/O per box, coded the exact same as a Digi192 in all configurations, highly accurate clocking.

The Aurora sounds clear as hell with zero color, the color that is there is PT or your sources, very wide stereo image, and it does have a better "weight" to the its response when compared to the Digi interfaces. Its flatter by FAR and definitely has better transient response....Its not "soft" and limp at the top like a 192. I think those things are dark...but what do I know. The Aurora is much more "real" sounding to me and I have found it to have better definition in the stereo imaging when mixing to the 2. Its not colored so it fits in well with colored or character ridden equipment. But I think its a good match for anyones equipment because it is deep sounding.

1 Apogee AD16x and 2 Apogee DA16x ALL With X-HD cards= 48 I/O [TO/FROM PT: 16 AD, 32 DA, 16 AES or ADAT Inputs, 32 AES or ADAT Outputs ] configurable signal path routing, Soft Limit on the AD, full calibration in precise increments, Self Termination, c777 digital clock

The Apogee's are among the best converters out there with regard to features and sound quality, they have a sound that is extremely flattering for many styles of music [and systems:hint] because of the texture. Yet, I hear all the depth and clarity that my sources offer, as the AD16x records audio pristinely and maintains your signal chain. These converters are true, yet they are "musical" and pleasing to the ear.

In this price range; there are no better options for sound quality and features with a PT HD System. At the next step up it gets WAY better, but the channel count is not in your favor with the converter boxes that are at the TOP of the ladder of sound quality and features with a PT HD system.

Its really a matter of needs/aesthetics between these 2, as well as the rest of your existing analog equipment. I would take into consideration the +4 analog stage calibration of these AD/DA converters when paired with your analog gear. Both Apogee and Lynx are great companies that do stand behind their products, and both have shown updates and firmware changes to with intuitive software programming to fix problems and issues raised by users. This is continuing today. Both converter sets work fine with the System. It gets hairy when you f#ck with multiple converters and PDC with different hardware and induced latency between different brands of AD/DA and all of those happy horse droppings.....

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the SSL just a re-badged version of some company they bought, some sort of low-endish converter whose name I can't even remember.

I believe this is true. They just slapped the SSL name on it, new face plate.

-andrews

nope
they bought Soundscape which was good stuff and redesigned (improved) it
so, wrong on both counts ;-)

btw, the Soundscape stuff was already considered a bit of a deal and very well respected by those who used it. SSL made it top notch.
In any case, I am highly impressed and at the price they come in at, bargains. Superb sounding converters.

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

nope
they bought Soundscape which was good stuff and redesigned (improved) it
so, wrong on both counts ;-)

btw, the Soundscape stuff was already considered a bit of a deal and very well respected by those who used it. SSL made it top notch.
In any case, I am highly impressed and at the price they come in at, bargains. Superb sounding converters.

Not wrong... it was another converter bought by SSL and re-badged.

As for any "improvements." Do you know what those are? If so, please give us the specifics.

And Soundscape may be respected by some, but by no means an Apogee, Prism, Weiss or any of that calibre.


-andrews

[dobz]

I've only heard the apogee converters so i wont comment on which is better but i will comment on people talking about converters that they haven't heard..If you haven't heard it don't comment on it.....Pretty simple.

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Not wrong... it was another converter bought by SSL and re-badged.

As for any "improvements." Do you know what those are? If so, please give us the specifics.

And Soundscape may be respected by some, but by no means an Apogee, Prism, Weiss or any of that calibre.


-andrews

Ok. To please you. Yes the box is a Soundscape box with an SSL badge.
It has however had the internals changed (this is more important to me than the badge)

1 bit of spec for you

The Soundscape had a dynamic range of 108db
The SSL have a dynamic range of 128db


I asked SSL and they told me that there was a lot of of updating going on including better clock, better analogue circuitry and other improvements . Ask Jim@ssl on this forum and I'm sure he will tell you.

In any case, ask people using them. I have yet to hear someone complain of the sonics. Most people say it is clear, open and neutral. To me that sounds like positive. If you want that Apogee sound, then no you won't get it. If you have $7k plus to spend on 24 channels of converters I am sure there are converters which are technically better, but the SSL is way under half of anything comparable. If our budget is limited to say under $6k for 24 i/o then there is little on the market to compare and even then, I think the SSL are top rate converters at any price.

So yes you are right. They are rebadged soundscape converters.
I get the feeling you don't want to hear anything else.

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

Ok. To please you. Yes the box is a Soundscape box with an SSL badge.
It has however had the internals changed (this is more important to me than the badge)

1 bit of spec for you

The Soundscape had a dynamic range of 108db
The SSL have a dynamic range of 128db


I asked SSL and they told me that there was a lot of of updating going on including better clock, better analogue circuitry and other improvements . Ask Jim@ssl on this forum and I'm sure he will tell you.

In any case, ask people using them. I have yet to hear someone complain of the sonics. Most people say it is clear, open and neutral. To me that sounds like positive. If you want that Apogee sound, then no you won't get it. If you have $7k plus to spend on 24 channels of converters I am sure there are converters which are technically better, but the SSL is way under half of anything comparable. If our budget is limited to say under $6k for 24 i/o then there is little on the market to compare and even then, I think the SSL are top rate converters at any price.

So yes you are right. They are rebadged soundscape converters.
I get the feeling you don't want to hear anything else.

I guess that's my point, you're getting an updated lowish-end Soundscape converter for an "SSL" price.

The name DOES increase its price and I believe there are better "values" in converters.

Just wanting to point out what people are really getting. I THOUGHT it was being helpful.

Then again, I'm a Prism guy.

-andrews

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

I guess that's my point, you're getting an updated lowish-end Soundscape converter for an "SSL" price.

The name DOES increase its price and I believe there are better "values" in converters.

Just wanting to point out what people are really getting. I THOUGHT it was being helpful.

Then again, I'm a Prism guy.

-andrews

LOL

Correct
You Win
I'm so fed up with people who don't even know gear, but think they know stuff about it. Ever tried it?
It's not big and it's not clever and you aren't impressing anyone

To be serious, I haven't heard ANYONE say they are anything but underpriced (except you, being someone who hasn't actually heard them)

Adios
Ignore list to the rescue

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

LOL

Correct
You Win
I'm so fed up with people who don't even know gear, but think they know stuff about it. Ever tried it?
It's not big and it's not clever and you aren't impressing anyone

To be serious, I haven't heard ANYONE say they are anything but underpriced (except you, being someone who hasn't actually heard them)

Adios
Ignore list to the rescue

Wow... a bit defensive, aren't we?

Feeling a bit insecure about your purchase?


I never said it sounded good or bad, just stated some facts some people may not know. FWIW

And yes, I do know gear... where did you get that ASSumption?

I have no agenda and could not care less.


-andrews

[Zuewi]

Come down guys and drink a beer together

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

Im in the same boat here. Going to move Hd2 and unsure about lynx or apogee 16.
I do have a rosetta200 already so I may well stick with apogee.

Lynx are cheaper and I think I read somewere that they induce exacly the same ad/da latency than the digis. Is this a fact to consider???

I´ll use my fireface just for inserts to the outboard...

[dobz]

I just today brought a SSL Alpha link AX. It will arrive next week.

I've actually heard the Soundscape Ibox and the converters in that are probably on par with RME, maybe a little clearer. Even with out any mods the Soundscape ibox could sell for $2500 thats under $100 per I/O channel.

So once i get a hold of the SSL Alpha link i'll tell you if they are better or not. I have a feeling reading the specs that they will sound just as good (with there own style) as Apogee.

Oh just thought i'd let you know that apogee have also work with Soundscape...

[duende]

I've owned all the convertors in question with PTHD

My list goes like this:

1. Lynx Aurora
2. SSL Alpha MAdi
3. Apogee AD/DA-16x's

Aurora's are built the best, easiest to configure and provide the best audio quality imo. If I had to guess this has to do with their huge toroidal transformer inside. Amazing depth and punchy dynamic bass response. They also get the most hot too, but after years of use I have yet to have one go out on me.

The SSL is surprizingly good. Very neutral sounding with a tight bass response that some people (electro/techno musician's especially) might prefer over the bigger (more iron) sounding Aurora's. Also easy to configure now that SSL has gotten their software up to date. Their MADI interface is superb. Wish more companies implemented it.

Apogee is the most colored and built the shabbiest. Had two power switches go out on me. Some just prefer the sound of these boxes, but to be honest.. imo, ever since the AD-8000 this company just has not cut it for me.

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by duende

I've owned all the convertors in question with PTHD

My list goes like this:

1. Lynx Aurora
2. SSL Alpha MAdi
3. Apogee AD/DA-16x's

Aurora's are built the best, easiest to configure and provide the best audio quality imo. If I had to guess this has to do with their huge toroidal transformer inside. Amazing depth and punchy dynamic bass response. They also get the most hot too, but after years of use I have yet to have one go out on me.

The SSL is surprizingly good. Very neutral sounding with a tight bass response that some people (electro/techno musician's especially) might prefer over the bigger (more iron) sounding Aurora's. Also easy to configure now that SSL has gotten their software up to date. Their MADI interface is superb. Wish more companies implemented it.

Apogee is the most colored and built the shabbiest. Had two power switches go out on me. Some just prefer the sound of these boxes, but to be honest.. imo, ever since the AD-8000 this company just has not cut it for me.

Everyone is entitled to your opinion, but I think quite a few of the world's top producers, engineers and studio owners would tend to disagree with you about the Apogee!

Like I said, to each their own.

And to give fair context, I've owned everyting from MOTU to Prism, digi 192, name it and have landed on a Prism ADA XR/ Apogee DA 16x combo.

A combo of THE most accurate and the most analogue/flattering.

-andrews

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

I have digis, RMEs and apogee. The apogees just broke down on me last week, all channels! I had to send them to Germany. I must say I didnt expect this, they have only 3 years use. Thought I also didnt expect I would miss them that much. Its a huge difference soundwise. RMEs are dryer and smaller sounding.

[Infa]

Originally Posted by duende

I've owned all the convertors in question with PTHD

Aurora's are built the best, easiest to configure and provide the best audio quality imo. If I had to guess this has to do with their huge toroidal transformer inside. Amazing depth and punchy dynamic bass response. They also get the most hot too, but after years of use I have yet to have one go out on me.

The SSL is surprizingly good. Very neutral sounding with a tight bass response that some people (electro/techno musician's especially) might prefer over the bigger (more iron) sounding Aurora's. Also easy to configure now that SSL has gotten their software up to date. Their MADI interface is superb. Wish more companies implemented it.

Apogee is the most colored and built the shabbiest. Had two power switches go out on me. Some just prefer the sound of these boxes, but to be honest.. imo, ever since the AD-8000 this company just has not cut it for me.

Are we all forgetting the clocks in these things ? In my experience the clock and design of the power supply (yes if you are in the know, the power supply working WITH the clock) is the most important thing in conversion along with circuitry.

Ok, so now we know that. Now when I have walked into (almost) ANY high end professional studio where over 85% of all Billboard hits are made and all I have ever seen (most of the time) no matter what converters they have is a BIG BEN Master Digital Clock.... (like I said, most of the time, not absolutely all the time) -

If you read the white paper on this clock (which BTW has over proven itself over time obviously) you will see nothing but overwhelming specs to any other companies converters with large price tags. NOW, the AD and DA 16x's have the Big Ben clock built in them, along with the best circuitry Apogee has put into ANY of their products AND most important they had redesigned the power supply to accompany the imporvements. So that alone should allow you to put Apogee 16x's up there with the best, but I do not believe they are the best at all, just up there close to the best for the money. And honestly better than Lynx. From what I have white paper read and personally heard I can seriously say that the Lynx SynchroLoc Jitter Reduction Technology clock is not as good as the Apogee C777 clock. And that is what matters.... PLUS THE ONBOARD 32 CHANNEL MIXER is just a no no for audio quality. To much is going on in that unit and therefore the circuitry is compromised. If you say you think they sound better PLEASE read the ***DETAILS*** section below as to my possible theories on why that maybe to you and others.

Now let me clarify, I am not defending Apogee 16x's or saying they are the best. As a matter of fact as a owner of 4 16x's in my big studio I am thinking of possible other solutions to upgrade, and you will see my threads on that one day asking for opinions for you other professionals.... BUT as a person who has already done my research and heard quite a bit of converters AND been able to A/B them I will tell you, there is ONLY 4 possibilities that are above Apogee 16x's (and it is NOT SSL or Lynx), and even then 2 of them best 4 is eliminated due to not being PT HD direct config... Weiss, which I KNOW is basically the best conversion out there that money can buy is eliminated in large mulitrack studios because you dont want to pay $3,000 a channel !! ha ha....and 2 - Beat me up, but I think Lavry is eliminated too. Its CLOSE, but not that much better than Apogee IMO for the cost, and again not 100% PT HD direct config... and same thing as Weiss it is ALOT of $$ to set up a 56 channel studio. Plus as his 192 theory somewhat makes sense, I still have a gut feeling it is he that might be not seeing past a brick wall he has in his mind. (thats another thread though ! - Neighboring frequencies effecting audible frequencies and sometimes it is what you CAN'T hear that is important to "feeling" is all I will say for now). So for me, I like to at LEAST have the ability of recording 192 for my Final Stereo Masters (sometimes). Plus I seen several small studios or studios that only need 16 or less ins and outs with Lary's, but they had Big Ben clocking them !!. I asked, and sure enough they said Big Ben made them sound better !!! So NO to Lavry for me... 3 - Lynx Aurora I do NOT think is better. Different yes, better no. You trying to tell me that their clock is better than Big Ben C777 clock that is in the 16x's and their power supply is built in conjunction to help that quality ? I don't think so, BUT I could be wrong. EQUIVALENT maybe, but not better. Equivalent at best IMO.

But runner up #4- Prism IS possibly better. I just have to be honest and say, I don't know for sure yet. I will be starting other threads to talk about this. But I need to do more research and BLIND A/B testing before I can properly speak on it.

The SSL converter idea is just a bad one to me. There is no way SSL or Soundscape has the C777 Clocking outdone or even close to equivalent. SSL conversion ? I don't know. DON'T GET ME WRONG, I love SSL, I own a SSL board in my main big studio, so I am the biggest FAN of SSL trust me... But they do consoles to me, I trust them with consoles, NOT DAW's (as I see they are trying) and definitely not converters as I see them trying... BUT let me clarify, that is my opinion strictly on the tech specs and white papers and so far "gut feeling" (which for me is rarely wrong)... I have to be honest (unlike others here) by saying I have not been able to blind test A/B them either yet. This is so far just my OPINION. But I think it has solid validity and logical reasoning. Here is why: I am a GEARSLUT, and I am just going by a #1 rule I always have known with gear companies, which is: "try to be the jack of all trades and you become the master of none !!" So we ALL know, SSL is the master of Consoles. They (used to) do NOTHING but consoles. They are the BEST at consoles, that is where they shine. Apogee, Lavry, Prism and Weiss do conversion, thats (mainly) all they do, therefore they do it THE BEST.. So don't buy a pizza from a chinese food place, PERIOD !!! Therefore don't buy SSL Conversion, buy Weiss, Prism, Lavry, or Apogee conversion... And Don't buy a Console from Weiss, Prism, Lavry or Apogee, buy a console from SSL... PERIOD.

And duende, with all due respect, PLEASE don't take this wrong, but I thought my 16x's were a BREEZE to config to PT HD... I can't see any more easy config'ing possible. Best Audio quality ??? Hmmmm... We all have our opinions I guess (please read below *** for details). And dude, the AD-8000's completely SUCK when A/B'ed to the 16x's !! And this was blind tested a few years ago with me and about 8 other engineer strangers I didn't even know all from different genres, so it was fair. The outcome was 100% of people knew instantly they heard a better audio quality when the 16x's were in the chain compared to the older 8000's.... So again with all due respect, but you are severely trippin there.... The circuitry AND most important the clock and power supply is so ridiculously improved in the 16x's over the 8000's that it isn't even funny... My friend who used to work at Apogee (Max) schooled me on exactly what went into each of them units and how the insides were designed differently. Trust me, the 16x's are lightyears ahead of audio quality than the 8000's. And that I am speaking from white paper specs (read them) AND from extensive BLIND A/B testing. The clock, the power supply and circuitry is of a FAR higher quality, design, and routing in the 16x's than that of the 8000's... But as far as "Built like a tank" casing and stuff, yea, you are probably right there, I agree.

***DETAILS***I think some people mistake something they like for "best audio quality" - But to me no matter what I think or anyone else thinks the smoothest best built clock equals no-close to no Jitter, no jitter equals technically the best quality of audio.

Trip on this. Sometimes (like with hip hop) have you ever noticed some people literally like lower bit sample rates if the test was done blind ? They are not wrong for this, how can you be with taste ? BUT they technically liked a lower audio quality because it was doing something for THEM and their style of music..... MAYBE, just MAYBE (is all I am saying), some people actually sometimes like a lower audio quality in conversion because it does something for them and their ears. And they are not wrong for that at all. It is possible that a bit of unnoticed jitter in the clocking signal actually gives them something they like... maybe is all...

FWIW - When I was AES, I met ALL the converter people. Talked to Dan Lavry, Mr. Weiss, of course my boy at Apogee, the prism people, Lynx dudes, EVERYONE.... and as I went around I picked up on one small thing, not ONE of them could bad mouth the C777 clock from Apogee. And when puled to the side from me and asked honestly tell me, is your clocking system and power supply design better than the C777 from Apogee ? At BEST the top of the tops said,, "well.... it's definitely as good"... Not one person could say "better". Not Lavry, Not Prism, not even Weiss. But those 3 were the ones that claimed AS GOOD AS. The others (all others, Mytec, Benchmark, Lynx, etc..) tried to avoid the question from me !!... Now to me that is a big "read between the lines"....

The TOP 3 converters in the world to me (Weiss, Prism, and Lavry)(and in that order) could only say at best their clocks in their flagship models was only AS GOOD AS the C777 clock.... The others ran from the question.

So back to the original poster - Since you are not allowing us to suggest Prism or Weiss, and out of the ones you listed as choices I must suggest Apogee 16x's for you.

But I am far from a "Fan Boy" of Apogee. And I am not saying that just because I own them. I hate when others do that and make false statements just because they are defending their purchase. I want to clear that I am NOT doing that at all. Hell I might be selling my Apogees and moving onto Prism's (maybe)....I just try to say it like it is and from what I learn and then pass that onto you.

Now for me personally, I am going to study up on Prism ADA 8XR's .... It is quite possible they are better than the Apogee 16x's.. But I want only experienced ,educated people telling me and ones that HAVE actually worked with both, not just heard, but WORKED with both, and I need white paper on them and blind A/B testing before I can say for 100% sure.

To me so far in my opinion Weiss converters are truly the best. But they are out for people like me and you. I need 16 ins and 48 outs... Weiss converters only come in 2 channel converters that DON'T hook directly up to PT HD as interface replacements and they are about $6,000 EACH !!! For me that would be $192,000.00 in conversion to have Weiss in my big main studio !!!!!!!! HA HA WHOA !!

But I probably am getting a Weiss 2 channel AD for my mobile system.

Hope all this helps, Also, I am sorry if I offended anyone and I definitely don't mean to come off like that... Just simple conversation and debates all in good spirits and passing on what I know and have learned over time and researched even if some don't want to hear that and therefore disagree.

[duende]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Everyone is entitled to your opinion, but I think quite a few of the world's top producers, engineers and studio owners would tend to disagree with you about the Apogee!

Like I said, to each their own.

And to give fair context, I've owned everyting from MOTU to Prism, digi 192, name it and have landed on a Prism ADA XR/ Apogee DA 16x combo.

A combo of THE most accurate and the most analogue/flattering.

-andrews

Glad you are enjoying your combo.. I personally prefer my Aurora's clocked to a Hedd 192.

As for what the world's top producers, engineers, and studio owners tending to disagree... I doubt anyone of us can really speak for all of them. Personally, I am suspect of such marketing hype and ultimately just trust my ears. As at the end of the day, it is our own name that goes on the credits.

[duende]

Originally Posted by Infa

Are we all forgetting the clocks in these things ? In my experience the clock and design of the power supply (yes if you are in the know, the power supply working WITH the clock) is the most important thing in conversion along with circuitry.

Ok, so now we know that. Now when I have walked into (almost) ANY high end professional studio where over 85% of all Billboard hits are made and all I have ever seen (most of the time) no matter what converters they have is a BIG BEN Master Digital Clock.... (like I said, most of the time, not absolutely all the time) -

Sorry Infa, had the Big Ben too. In a side by side blind comparison, all our engineers chose clocking the Apogee's to our HEDD over the Big Ben. The general opinion was that the Big Ben had no where near the depth of field as the Hedd's clock.

Like you say, Apogee's are easy to configure with PT. Although I believe the Aurora's insert delay time mimic's the 192 more accurately than the Apogees.

Personally, I'm glad that I was able to offload my two Big Ben's, 5 DA-16x's and 3 AD-16x's to satisfied Apogee aficionado's on the used market during a re-config of one our rooms a few years back.

Different strokes for different folks.. no big deal. Whatever gets the job done at the end of the day is what truly matters.

Best

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by duende

Sorry Infa, had the Big Ben too. In a side by side blind comparison, all our engineers chose clocking the Apogee's to our HEDD over the Big Ben. The general opinion was that the Big Ben had no where near the depth of field as the Hedd's clock.

Like you say, Apogee's are easy to configure with PT. Although I believe the Aurora's insert delay time mimic's the 192 more accurately than the Apogees.

Personally, I'm glad that I was able to offload my two Big Ben's, 5 DA-16x's and 3 AD-16x's to satisfied Apogee aficionado's on the used market during a re-config of one our rooms a few years back.

Different strokes for different folks.. no big deal. Whatever gets the job done at the end of the day is what truly matters.

Best

In one post you put the Lynx as your first, then you just said that your preferred the HEDD. Huh?

You talk about the SSL, but don't really know much about it's re-badged low-end history.

And to someone else who sent their Apogee to Germany to get fixed... uhhh, sorry to tell ya, but Apogee is in Santa Monica, CA. USA.

Lastly, I too don't trust the "hype," just passing along that first-hand experience that the top converters seem to be chosen out of the more proefessional experience are the Prism, Apogees and the like... just passing along what I see and work with in the top L.A. studios (but hey, we could all be wrong)

Speaking of "hype," be careful not to entrench your thinking in defending your own gear, which is a natural instinct. FWIW

-andrews

[Jim@SSL]

I don't know... you stay off the forum for a couple of days because your wife is giving birth, and the whole place goes mental!

Just to clarify...

Yes, SSL bought Soundscpe.

Yes, the Alpha Links share some design with the Soundscape iBox - same digital boards, same PSU, same front panel circuit but different faceplate. However, we put an entirely different converter chip in the units with better spec, and a couple of other small design changes.

Soundscape are not, and never were, "low end" so can we calm down a little with this accusation.

The Alpha Link prices are very very close to the iBox prices, so can we also get some perspective on "SSL simply charges more for the name".

OK - I'm off to enjoy some time with my new family. Do you all promise to be nice to each other while I'm away?