Recommended Workstation 4 RnB/HipHop Productions

[nikthegrik]

I'm up to buy a Workstation (Yamaha Motif es 8 or Roland Fantom X8 very soon and I don't know which one's the best for my project. I played both and they're tight, but which one is eventually the right for me, which has the best sounds fittin' to my style.

A short snippet:

Click here to listen to my Beats



In my Opinion the Motif has more power, which would be advantageous for a Live Band or something like that. I like working in my Home Studio producing RnB and other so i would like to know which workstation the better sounds has on board. I need some good Pianos, Rhodes, Strings, Basses, Guitars (Ok..the Motif got the Mega Voices, but don't have to be just natural Guitars, i like "plastics" too, good 4 RnB ), maybe some percussions. Drums i take from several Drum Libraries such as Modernbeats, Nu Groove RnB etc. Which Workstation do you prefer and why? Which are the Advantages/Disadvantages of both of them?

Thanx 4 your help

GreeZ

(Excuse my bad englisch please)

[BIG_MYDUS]

HEY NIK,

NICE TRACKS BY THE WAY. AS FAR AS WHAT SYNTH/WRK STATION TO GO FOR I WOULD RECOMMEND GETTING A MOTIF ES8 AND AT A LATER DATE GOING FOR THE FANTOM XR CUZ BOTH HAVE THEIR OWN PARTICULAR SOUND.

MOTIF= MORE AGGRESSIVE AND PUNCHY SOUNDING
FANTOM X= MORE MELLOW AND SOFTER SOUNDING

(BEST WAY TO DESCRIBE THE SOUND ENGINES)

HOPE THAT HELPS

MIKE. N

[MattiMattMatt]

Hey Nik The Grik!

Listened to your track. Sounds like a little more reverb on the strings, etc., and more exagerated mixing (e.g. louder bass, softer doo-hickeys) would give it a more RnB feel.

I don't know. The Roland has some pretty good "street smart" sounds as well.

I've got a different Roland synth and some others as well.

What it really boils down to, in my opinion, is which synth you prefer working on. All are excellent, different people sware by different models (Yamaha, Roland, Korg, Kurzweil, etc.) so it really boils down to which one strikes YOU as the best, and which one you feel comfortable spending hours and hours using.

I know a bunch of RnB folks who like the Motif, I also know a bunch who like the Roland.

[gpcramseysoral]

Listening to your style I would say that both of them are going to have sounds that you like (provided that you like the sounds you've been using). That being the case it's really more a question of sequencing sampling and other workflow related issues. Though neither the Roland or Yamaha are what you would call user friendly. I would say that the Roland is a better choice. Though I personally use a Yamaha EX-5. Yamaha is known for having terrorable manuals.
Also Hip Hop cats really just started using Yamaha with the creation of the Motif (At lest in the circles that I run in). So if you’re going to have other cats trying to load up songs neither one (once again) would be the ideal choice but the Roland would be the wiser of the two in some respects. Allot of hip hop & R&B cats used the xp-60/80 and the JV 10/20 series so you'll have some compatablity there.

What do you have now and what are you trying to accomplish with new gear?

[manisedap]

Yeah, I would say both. Just get the XR & ES rack when it comes out (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...129/dal170.htm)with a midi controller. I really like your stuff man, good job.

Yo, what did u make this with?

[nikthegrik]

Hey Guys,

thx a lot for your help.

Till this day i had a Yamaha 9000Pro Entertainer Keyboard which i bought 2 Years ago and used it as an "band" for my live gigs, but know I'd like to produce and the 9000Pro ist the wrong workstation, no good sounds at all.

My Equipment is:

A Brand new PC, assembled on my own:

- ASUS P5AD2 PREMIUM S775
- INTEL PENTIUM4 3,4GHz So775
- 4x DDR 512MB PC-400 Infineon
- DVD Drive and Burner
- Seagate Barracuda 120GB 7200rpm 8mb and a
Samsung 160GB 7200rpm 8mb (On each Harddisk an own Operating System ("Music OS" and "Office OS") )
- Matrox G550 with 2x 17" tft (soon)

Recording Interface:

- RME HDSP 9632 with an Expansion Card RME AO4S/192


Monitors:

- Fostex PM-1

Preamps:

- ART DPS Dual Channel

Mics:

- SPL Nugget

Headphones:

- AKG K55 for monitoring
- AKG K-501 for mixing when it's late and everybody's sleeping

Other:

- Samson C-control


Is it OK? What would you change?
Normally i use only VSTI's like Hypersonic, Lounge Lizard, The Grand, Virtual Guitarist and other Software Stuff, but as you can hear the Quality could be much much better, therefore I need a Pro Workstation.

Of Course my purchase decision also depents on handling, outputs, display and so on. Fantom X has the better Display, better, easier handling and what is really important the fantom got an Digital Ouput which the Motif doesn't have (would have to buy a Mlan Board). In Fact the Fantom X seems to be more attractive to me because of all nice Features mentioned before and of course of the Pads. It's a hard decision and what i want to do, is to get the best Quality possible for my basic sound material, so what's your opiniono?

If I could, I would buyboth, a Yamaha Motif ES 8 and the Fantom XR for best addition of those sound worlds.

Is it right to say that the Motif is perfect for something like "Lil' John" beats, deep, phat and punchy and the Fantom is for the nice, soft Donnel Jones Ballads or could i also do some Crazy Club Beats with the Fantom X, I can't really imagine, that a Professional Workstation as the Fantom X is, can not be used for "harder" beats.

Another impoprtant Aspect which , to my mind makes the Motif ES attractive, ist the nice Midi integration into Cubase SX 3. I already liked the easy soundswitching in Cubase SX2, but the SX3 will be even better. What's about the Fantom. How's the integration into a sequenzer like Cubase? What can i expect?

Help me please

Thank you very much,

greetz from good old germany

[gpcramseysoral]

Well now that I know what you’re working with here are my suggestions. Go to your music store. Demo more sample libraries. Man for the type of music I here you doing there are shitloads of sample libraries that have what your looking for. I also use Cubase. I've found that sequencing via vst-i is worlds easier then going with a dedicated workstation. Not mention that it's already in the box.
Unless you are extremely familiar with the functions and wanted a motif/phantom for familiarity sake I think it's a bad investment. Most guys’ I know use Triton’s. Why? Mainly because they know it inside and out not because they feel the sounds are good. The only hardware that's worth buying is some of the older staple hip hop devices like the mpc, asr-10, eps or sp-1200. All of those devices have a sound that's unique. It's the sound of classics like "The Infamous" (Mobb Deep) & "Illmatic" (Nas). Really the samples (and analog tape) are the sound but all of these devices deal with analog in a very favorable way. I don't here that type of style in your production. Maybe for the drums but your other elements sound more modern. Your composition style also sounds very modern. So I still think that you’re most versatile, familiar & cheapest solution is to upgrade cubase and get some more samples. Invest 1/4 (or less) of the time you would in learning the new hardware into demoing samples!

[manisedap]

I agree with gpcramseysoral. Those workstation would cost you $3000, and with that much of money, you can really get a lot of real good quality sample cd. And Vsti do make things very simple. Also, with Access Virus going the integration with PC thing, I'd suspect that other manufacturers are going that way. EMU sorta went that way with their Emulator/Proteus X with soundcard dongle.
Workstation would be blowing a lot of money.

[gpcramseysoral]

In an attempt to answer your question in reference to midi implementation with cubase I offer the following. Though I haven't tried using either with cubase (as a controller) I will say this. The XP series Roland’s worked flawlessly with cubase (5.0 at the time). Whereas my EX-5 wouldn't work at all (as a controller). I unsuccessfully brought in the top Midi guy in Pittsburgh to help me. In defense to Yamaha I bought a floor model. Therefore I can't say it wasn’t defective. The two other guys I know with EX-5's and the few guys’ with Motif's don't use them with sequencers. I guess I can't offer any insight there. So having never used either as a controller with cubase I would suggest telling the sales guy to hook it up in the store. Still in theoretically the Motif should smoke the Phantom on this level as it is also a software controller. But like I said most of what I’m saying is somewhat theoretical therefore out the side of my ass.

My position stands at, SAMPLE CD'S & VINYL!

[manisedap]

Have u checked www.underdogentertainment.net ? I really like them, I think they use the motif as a master controller.

[nikthegrik]

A week ago i went to the store and ordered the Motif ES 8, tommorow i can pick it up, but two days ago i talked to some guys and they told me i should better buy the Fantom X8!, because -as they told me- the Fantom has some Sounds that i really need for producing RNB, so i sat down and consider it. Man..it's really hard, cause as you already know the Motif is THE STANDART.
Some days ago i went to the store over again and ordered the fantom x8 as a final decision. But listening to the Audio Demos of both of them i have to say, that as far as you can judge the workstation just by listening to demos, the motif sounds fresher, cooler, all in all more professional (guitars, Drums, Synths).

It is a long time ago when i played the Fantom X 7 and the Motif es 8 in a store and i just played the Motif es 6 two times since.

What do you think about the audio demos? Does the Fantom normally sound better than the demos show?

Which one has the better weighted Keys? the x8 or the ES8 ?


PLEASE HELP ME!!!!

THX

Nik

[manisedap]

If I'm not mistaken, Yamaha is a bit more weighted than the Roland.

Dude, if Yamaha sounds better for you, then that's what you'll be happy with. Don't go for the X8 just cause your friend say something about it. If the Yamaha sounds better to your ears, then go for it. Trust your own gut.

[toledo3]

To me, the roland soundsets are simply the sound of modern r&b and hip hop. You can plug it straight in and get ready to go.

I have been using the Rolands since the xp50, so it's what I am used to. I currently have an xp80 and a Triton rack. I think the Yamaha is not shabby though.

I have to say, some great things can be done with soft synths, but for my workflow they just don't cut it. For me, it is a pain in the ass to just "play" them, noodling around to come up with song ideas... may work great for others.

[JohnMcD]

Just thought I'd add some stuff. I personally have played with a Roland Fantom at the studio I work at. I've also taken out samples.

What they say about the Fantom sounding "soft" is sorta true. But what no one ever mentions is the Mastering section within the Fantom. It has EQ, but what I think is really killer is the multiband compressors. I took a kick drum sample in its libraries and mangled it with these compressors. Phenomenal punch. The original sampled kick was pretty weak, I hate to admit.

You can also sequence tracks, which is pretty neat if you are like me and forget what you played five minutes ago. I have not yet touched the pads and other rhythm related areas in the Fantom. I like the neat expansion cards you get. Now you buy one, and within that one card, you get 2-3 different libraries.

But again, from what I've heard from other people and have seen, the Yamaha seems to win hands down with the "sound". But if you work hard on the Fantom, you can get some surprising results.

-John