a look into the future of recording studio??????

[nukmusic]

Just a question for the "Elders" ...joking, but anyway

I was just reading the lastest info about more of THE INDUSTRY moving forward with selling music via internet downloads. And just started brainstorming. Is this the new "Star Trek" world we may be moving into? I love Star Trek. Even looking at the lastest studio gear. What 's your thoughts? All these are good and Technology will only get better. What are your thoughts?

future setups like this:
Korby KAT 4 system Elam 251, Neumann U-47, AKG C-12, Neumann U-67/modified


into a few of these:
Liquid Channel


through:
SSL AWS900 console


in & out of stuff like:


Is this a look into the future of recording studios?????? more and more gear like this? What are your thoughts?

[jazzius II]

What is the question again?

[biggator6]

while you're at it - why not some lovely Line 6 Variax guitars and modelling amps... perhaps some V-drums, too.

ick.
"-)

[Bob Olhsson]

Last I heard, a recording studio is a space where music is performed while making it easy to record the performance. It isn't a mix room, an editing room, a computer or a pile of recording gear.

Performing music isn't going away any time soon. Just like real football teams need stadiums, the rise of video games doesn't mean that stadiums are about to be replaced by office cubicles having small coolers filled with Jolt Cola!

[nukmusic]

just trying to learn from others more experienced engineers/studio owners, etc. But what might we expect in the future.

someone once told me that stuff like this:



Would never replace stuff like this:



but the same person said that DVD would beat out LASER DISC.

[nukmusic]

P.S. Been looking at the history of studios......... anyone know what was the first multi-track? Thanks

[NathanEldred]

The future of what kind of studio?

There are too many types of studios to put a blanket statement like that on.

[kudzu]

Great point...

A short story from me....
Twas a lean year, spent some money on new gear, clients thin on the ground. Got by on some live FOH stuff...****ing hard work...smell bad 2.
Money v. tight, got offered some work at a "Recording School". Good money...thot I'd give it a go.
2 my horror all the so called "lecturers" were jaded failed musicians/engineers, who, after years of being nagged by their wifes, "got a real job" (£30,000 per year) and didn't care that what (and how) they were teaching the kids would be absolutely no use to them what so ever. The music industry connot support all these "graduates". But the guys running the system don't care cause all their wifes are ****ing them again!!!!!
I lasted 2 days...and told the kids to switch to a more useful course...not v. popular, as u can imagine....Most of the kids nearing the end of their final year could bearly operate cubase.!!!!
They leave with a university degree....then do what???...work in retail...keeps them away from us

[nukmusic]

Originally posted by Audiomonk
This has got to be the funniest post of all time.

OK. Laughs over.

Now for the bad news.

The "Recording Schools" are cranking 30,000 of these types into our ecosystem per year, promising them both use of the territory, and the ready availibilty of edible foliage.

It really would be funny... In a very 'Schardenfreude' sense.... Except for one little detail...

Get enough small, insentient, meanering animals scuttling across the highway, and the road will eventually become impassable due to the sheer proliferation of smashed and rotting carcasses.

Just a thought.

AM.

LMAO...............fa sho
So Audiomonk, what would be best in the long hall............A large shovel or a large BBQ grill?? I'll check the prices.

[Kestral]

That crappy setup can KISS my Neve 1073 and Urei 1176

[Infa]

I don't know,,, I do not think this is a ridiculous post, I actually think it is pretty cool, and a great subject to bring up. As all seem to be ragging on this post, I feel that 1 out of the four images nukmusic posted is trued and tried finally, and IS truely taken the place of alot of things in MANY pro recording studios. And that is PRO TOOLS HD, or just a DAW period for that matter.

But it is no future thing,, it is already here, and already did it. PLUS I wouldn't even think about letting it replace outboard gear, or a real G series SSL, but Pro Tools is GREAT for recording and editing etc... To me it truely replaced TRACKING to 2" tape.

But here me on this,, it DID NOT replace the USE for Analog Reel 2 Reel tape, just TRACKING and KEEPING your tracks on 2" tape is what it replaced.

Maybe not to all, but definitely for over 90% of all studios, and yes PRO ones.

Now for a liquid channel, and a AWS 900,, I feel I will stick to my G series SSL and the pre's in it.

My 2¢

[jdunn]

I think the future looks more like this, for those with $100,000< budgets anyway. This thing will run off of a Fairlight QDC engine, and I already have one of those. I'll be saving for a while though.

[Seamus TM]

WTF is that.?

[nukmusic]

whoa................ jdunn

What do u call that thing. "Star Ship AudioPrize"...............looks sweet.

but anyway,
Folks some of you are missing the point ........what I'm saying(or asking) is this:

I myself think that there will be more gear like the above. Just as Protools or DAW in general has taken over, in back of my mind i can't stop thinking about what the next generation of Liquid Channels, ICONs, or AWS 900s will bring to the table. Yes....... some "Replica" gear is not the same as the real deal. But as time goes on technology mostly seems to get better. Just think about how many mics, preamps and compressor that out today, that successfully "REPLICATE" the originals! Or how the MAC/PC you have now.... is much faster than the first one you had a few years. Or how way back when.............there was no such thing as a PLUG-IN. And don't mention HipHop............it went from being "NOWHERE" to being "EVERYWHERE".

I know a few folks(majors) that use to record and mix in 200hr studio for their releases. But now they record at project studios into stuff like U87>>Avalon 737>>Rosetta 800>> DIGI-001/002 for way less money and then mix down in that 200hr studio with the same beautiful final results. Dam..........i remember the great Apogee AD-8000's.................Lmao now we have the Rosetta 800 for less money.

Just curious about the future folks..................... just curious, so don't be ignorant to what the future might bring!

[biggator6]

for way less money and then mix down in that 200hr studio with the same beautiful final results.

Nuk, this is where so many disagree..
they are NOT getting the same results to many ears. Even ignoring the 'loudness race' going on in mastering - the recordings now are often crappy.

It all started with the Mackie/ADAT revolution and continued on through the mass acceptance of ProTools and it's offspring.. suddenly everyone thinks that having tools makes them an engineer/producer/whatever.

I can own a bandsaw, but I'm still not Paul Reed Smith.
"-)

[jdunn]

Smart Console - weblink
Yes, it does look sweet! I want one.

But in reality, I doubt anyone is rushing to get rid of their SSL at this point. Pro Tools is in pretty much every studio, but I don't see people scrambling to make the move to DSD or whatever the next new format is. So we've reached somewhat of a leveling off point I think. That is, if Digidesign announces 384 khz sample rate tomorrow, only a handful of people are going to care.

Editing is editing, and tracking still takes the skill of a good engineer, unless you want tracks for Triumph to poop on. Same for mixing, though sometimes there is beginners's luck.

[nukmusic]

na......I heard it myself BigGator. If its recorded correctly with a good engineer and good gear, it can be mixed without problems. That's what I'm refering to.

But I Dam sure agree that having gear doesn't make you an engineer, true indeed. I see so much good gear in pawn shops But on the same note, let 2 good engineers separately record and mix the same song...............both mixes might sound nice but will not be sonicly the same. I do real good with recording and mixing, but still practice, ask questions, study books, DVDs etc for new knowledge.

But Yet I know folks that never made it to that 200hr studio but yet sold(and still is) lots of records and made lots of money. Some even with shitty mixes, which i thought was terrible.

[nukmusic]

Bump Bump Bump.........and some thought this post was funny......well I be dam. Here we are months later....I guess it still funny right?

"WHAT.....you're closing? WHATTTTTTT???

[Jeroleen]

The Hit Factory in New York City closed down about two weeks ago. That appears to be what is in store in the future.

I for one do not always think this is the greatest thing for this reason. I have always been a musician and never was terribly interested in being an engineer. I knew basic functions so that I could facilitate recording but for the most part, I concentrated on playing my parts, creating music and getting sounds from my instruments.

A few years ago I found that it had becom necessary to learn how to be an engineer because I now had a home studio, some decent gear and, everyone was recording in this manner.

The first recordings were horrible. I therefore had to spend time learning how to make things sound good. I spend so much time on technical issues that I find it cuts into my acutal music creating time.

So, the big studios will close due to the project studio revolution and basic economics but....what should happen is the engineers should be working in the project studios so that the musicians can work on thier music and the engineers can do what they do.

It is fine to use your own studio to work out ideas, demo new stuff, work on arrangements, sounds, etc. But when it is time to make the final master recordings, I would vote for hiring an engineer any time over doing it myself.

[nukmusic]

My thing is this........why the hell didn't they just try to down size first??

[scott petito]

one can make a whole lot more money selling condos in a building in NYC then you ever could running a studio....
.personally I'm looking forward to the dick tracy watch studio thing...then again I've always wanted a small controlled nuclear reactor in my basement

cheers
sp

[nukmusic]

LOL Ya, i think i said something along thoses lines on another post. I know they just spent a grip on upgrading several of their rooms with new SSL XL9K's and more. Maybe they are just "docking" early so they can try to sell parts off the "ship" before the "sea" really gets rough. Have to every tried to sell a ship that's been capsized????

But it's kinda sad, all that history and experiences in that one place

[Soundog]

I started recording because I couldn't buy my favourite recording. It only came out on vinyl, was out of print long before I found an old tape of it, and was never re-issued on CD. When I realised I could perform all the music myself, I started collecting gear and trying to learn how to use it. The reality is that 4 years later, I still can't quite get the beauty and subtelty of the original 1968 recording ( my lack of musicinaship is part of this though ).

Despite having some reasonably decent gear and having read whatever I could find, I still don't really know what I'm doing.

Because the way I record is so time intensive and on a part time basis, I could never afford to hire the type of studio I would love to record in. Therefore, I would love to be able to hire an engineer for a day and I'm prepared to pay.

All I need is for someone good to come out, take a look what I do, take a look at my gear, and how I use it and make suggestions. I'm quite capable of pressing the record and stop button myself, and I can even plug in cables ! After working through your suggestions ( at my own pace and budget ), I'd likely call you in again at a later date when I have more questions. Also, your fresh and impartial ears would be greatly appreciated.

Economically, this transition of knowledge has already been seen countless times - e.g. in the creation of sample libraries where real orchestras / vintage synths etc have become too expensive for most people. Another example is the Focusrite liquid Channel in the original post which provides 90% of the quality for less than 10% of the cost ( of all the units it emulates put together ).

Secondly, a top studio has hundreds of thousands of dollars invested as fixed costs in a wide range of top line gear which needs to be spread across its clients. Both fixed costs and expertise are reflected in charge rates. Every client therefore pays for part of the fixed costs of the whole thing, but might only use 5% of the gear there but 100% of the expertise. Prosumer gear has changed the equation by allowing musicians to buy just what they need and reduce their fixed costs ( for example I don't need a mixing desk and don't have one ).

As the price of pro and prosumer gear comes down, it becomes affordable by the many who find that they can achieve 80% of the quality for 20% of the cost. Only those at the top of the echelon or those who can afford it will be prepard to pay the big bucks to get that extra 20% top quality.

So how about it ? You guys who used to work at the hit factory ? Anywhere else closed down ? Put up a web site and start advertising your consulting services and the rates you charge.

It's a matter of economics. Having had your fixed costs ditched for you, travel light and sell just your knowledge - either by consulting or by writing books for the rest of us to read. If the mountain won't go to Mohommed...

Top studios will always exist, as will orchestras, but the downside of this is that over time, everybody eventually comes down to mediocrity because fewer and fewer will be able to get the required experience of working in a real studio necessary for building up true expertise - but that shouldn't stop you from sharing what you know now and supplementing your dwindling client income with consulting fees. You might have to travel a bit though.

[nukmusic]

I feel ya Soundog

[T_R_S]

Originally posted by Soundog
Only those at the top of the echelon or those who can afford it will be prepard to pay the big bucks to get that extra 20% top quality.
.

But what's the point when the record comany (or client) tells you "I don't care about the quality I just want it godd enough after all it's just going end up on some kid's iPod ... I just want it done the cheapest way possible".

[raal]

Originally posted by nukmusic

Just curious about the future folks..................... just curious, so don't be ignorant to what the future might bring!

looking into my crystal ball right now .....

i see digital coming of age... at least 30db of headroom... higher than 192 KHz sampling... possibly DSD... all plugins actually work at that sampling rate... sounds great... analog consoles still in use... though not imperative (because ITB
'consoles' now cut the mustard)... still more fun to use... AWS like consoles... expandable... resettable analog dynamics... why?.... more fun and look slutier... real pultecs and compressors and outboard efx still in use... they look good, sound great and vary in sound one from the other... audiophiles still prefer them to the plugs (that actually sound good) but have more fun with the real stuff... headphone mixes more prevalent.... very few 'major studios' around... only in use for orchestractions or where the actual room is an important factor... these studios are not money making ventures... the money making is in the real estate, not in the per hour rates... allen sides with a long beard says : 'what else is new?'.... children are born with AES/EBU connectors on their foreheads as human voices become digital, making microphones obsolete...

[dharma one]

hildren are born with AES/EBU connectors on their foreheads as human voices become digital, making microphones obsolete...

..

[Soundog]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

But what's the point when the record comany (or client) tells you "I don't care about the quality I just want it godd enough after all it's just going end up on some kid's iPod ... I just want it done the cheapest way possible".

What you do is find another record company...

That's one of the reasons why record companies are going bad. That sort of thinking is like saying "What's the point when it just ends up being listened to on someone's car radio". It's such a myopic viewpoint and is so characteristic of the way accountants think - I should know - I am one. Too many corporations are being run by accountants who have no appreciation for excellence or service.

The fact is that undeniably, excellence sells. A case in point is Norah Jones which I think is fantastically recorded. At the time it pretty much went against the grain of what was fashionable at the time, yet managed to sweep the grammys. I read that she even made the point of recording with a lesser known label because she didn't want the release to get too big. Excellence sells despite record company executives !

[raal]

Originally Posted by Soundog

What you do is find another record company...

1) That's one of the reasons why record companies are going bad. That sort of thinking is like saying "What's the point when it just ends up being listened to on someone's car radio". It's such a myopic viewpoint and is so characteristic of the way accountants think - I should know - I am one. Too many corporations are being run by accountants who have no appreciation for excellence or service.

2) The fact is that undeniably, excellence sells. A case in point is Norah Jones which I think is fantastically recorded. At the time it pretty much went against the grain of what was fashionable at the time, yet managed to sweep the grammys. I read that she even made the point of recording with a lesser known label because she didn't want the release to get too big. Excellence sells despite record company executives !

two points here:

1) record companies can't exist when the cashflow is negative, so it's imperative with all the ripping, etc., for records to be produced cheaper than they were years ago. if people stopped going to movie theatres because of the same reasons, you'd promptly see those zillion dollar movie budgets being cut down. it's just business. i don't think there's any 'bad guy' here (except maybe the people who rip music), but there's no doubt the music biz is changing - fast - and when it hits 'bottom', i.e. there isn't all that much $ to be had from this business, it's bound to turn into what it once was - an art form. musicians who love music more than hummers and groupies? what a concept!!! don't forget those were the same accountants handing out the $3million budgets for some band to take a year to snort coke and make a mediocre record... not including promotion and P&D costs.

so... it's time to get back to basics. i've been a 'major studio' owner, artist, player, producer, have experienced the good and bad end of the stick here. IMHO what's happening could turn out to be a breath of fresh air... (cough, cough!).

2) the norah jones record was definitely cool (one of two records i bought all year) - refreshingly, there wasn't much there to get in it's own way, needing some wizard engineer to make sense of .

did go against the 'pop deva' grain - did make a hit. so.... people still like music. that's good news. i think more music will start to be made this way... again.

[Albert]

Originally Posted by Jeroleen

So, the big studios will close due to the project studio revolution and basic economics but....what should happen is the engineers should be working in the project studios so that the musicians can work on thier music and the engineers can do what they do.

It is fine to use your own studio to work out ideas, demo new stuff, work on arrangements, sounds, etc. But when it is time to make the final master recordings, I would vote for hiring an engineer any time over doing it myself.

That's what I do, and it works out great. The thing is, we still need places to record things like pianos, and violins, and bands, and orchestras. I sure hope some pro studios survive because I don't want to try and record an acoustic album in my back yard!

And I don't think it will matter how great the engineer is that I bring in that scenario.