Vocal chain

[oedipus_complex]

Hi everyone,

I have a question which I'm not expecting a definite answer for, but am hoping for some interesting opinions on.

I want to create a small but professional vocal dubbing studio here in Sydney. I already have an isolation booth and a good set of monitors. My question is, what would people recommend for the best 'all round' vocal chain i.e. one that is going to perform well for all types of singers? My budget will max out at $US10,000?

(Btw when I say 'chain' I mean mic>pre>convertor. One example would be Soundelux u195>Vintech72>Rosetta200....I'll be recording digitally.)

Would I perhaps be best to get two cheaper mics rather than one more expensive one?

Thanks in advance

[Riad]

U95--->Vintech X73i---->LA-2A--->Apogee AD-16X

I think that sucks up about 10 grand.

[oedipus_complex]

Originally posted by Riad
U95--->Vintech X73i---->LA-2A--->Apogee AD-16X

I think that sucks up about 10 grand.

Would the U99 be as suitable as the U95?

[Riad]

I've heard very good things about the U99, but I've never used one.

[HudHudson]

U95 sounds more like a U47, U99 like a U67, which has a little brighter top. I love 'em both. Also check out the ELUX 251. Can't go wrong with any of these.

[brownmouse]

mic........ gefell m-930 and shure sm-7b should cover a lot of bases (approx $1400)
pre/comp/eq/limiter.......pendulum quartet II (approx $4500)
converters...........cranesong hedd (or lavry 2 ch ad/da) ($3150)
thats the way i would go.....
joshua

[5150MP]

Korby Kat 4 with C 12 and 251 head >>> Requisite Pal Plus >>> any good AD converter in the $2000 range.

[Kestral]

U47 -> Neve 1073 -> 1176 (Blue Badge) -> Apogee -> Pro Tools HD

[oedipus_complex]

Thanks everyone for your input. There certainly is a variety of responses....who to trust?

[natpub]

Originally posted by oedipus_complex
....who to trust?

thyself...

[Ollie]

You can get two good mics on this budget.
Mic 1) A Neumann Geffel M582 H (WITH A M7 CAPSULE). This is tube mic that sounds very nice for the bucks ($1200 to 1600), a UM57, or find an AKG C12A or C12B at a good price. The C12A,B's can run from $1500 to 2500.
Mic 2) Try an AEA Ribbon, or a used Shure SM7 or a EV RE20. (all are good for multiple apps.

Preamps
1) A real bargain are the ALTEC 1567A tube mixer pres. You can pick these up for cheap $300-400 , spend a few bucks fixing it up, get some good tubes and it is great. I have Neve, API's, Helios, to choose from. They all sound great, but most artists pick the ALTEC(it is great sounding) also has some low and high eq.
2) You can find used Brent Averill 1272's for a good price
3) old Langevin mic pres.

Compression
1) A used distressor. Versatile for vocals and other items as well

A to D conversion:
Lavry or Mytek

Good luck

[oedipus_complex]

Originally posted by djui5
your ears....

any way you could rent some of these set-ups?

Not in Australia. 90% of this gear wouldn't even be available in retail stores - you'd have to order it

[James Lugo]

Soundelux E49>Chandler LTD-1>Distressor>Apogee

sweeeeeet!

[WunderBro Flo]

my vote vor the U99b (it has the new housing of the E250, just in black)! Though I have never used the E47, I know what a U47 sounds like, and though it works great on many vocalists, the U99b works better imo if you want a one-for-all voices mic. The 47 sound colors the highs in a certain way, which is sometimes not cool on certain voices. the U99b sounded amazing so far on any vocalist I have tried it on and for any style from rock to r&b.
rock on!
Pat

[Mike Jasper]

I have the same kind of small studio, geared toward vocal performance. My chain is a U87 to Great River MP-2NV to 1176 blackface compressor to Apogee PS-100SE.

There's one thing that emerged from this thread: most people are suggesting you include a compressor in the vocal chain. Don't think you figured that in on your original post, although I might have missed something.

Fun, isn't it?

Jasper

[oedipus_complex]

Originally posted by Mike Jasper
IThere's one thing that emerged from this thread: most people are suggesting you include a compressor in the vocal chain. Don't think you figured that in on your original post, although I might have missed something.

Yeah, well normally I don't print any effects/eq/compression to tape (or hdd as it is) purely because I figure that if it can be during tracking, than it may as well be done during mix down. I assuming this recommendation is being put forward on the premise that a compressed signal will have less noise and greater bit depth, am I right?

[T_R_S]

U87==>ISA430==>Rosetta 800==>192 (Left)
C12==>ISA430==>Rosetta 800==>192 (Right)
Stereo Vocals ALWAYS

[Mike Jasper]

Originally posted by oedipus_complex
I assuming this recommendation is being put forward on the premise that a compressed signal will have less noise and greater bit depth, am I right?

I just like the sound of the 1176 on vocals, myself.

Meanwhile... stereo vocals????

Jasper

[84K]

I would highly advise a new mic (and all new gear for that matter) so it is reliable. You need to consider that there maybe a lack of knowledgable techs out there. So, I would go for the best new stuff.

That being said, I think a lot of these guys know the mic market in the $1500-3000 range better than I do, so I would listen to them. I would definitely get the Pendulum Audio Quartet 2 and Apogee for converters. Take what is left in the budget and get the best tube mic you can. Good Luck, Kris

[oedipus_complex]

From what I've read and subsequently researched so far, I'm thinking my setup will be:

Soundelux U99 -> Pendulum Quartet II -> Apogee AD16x

I'd probably rather a Soundelux 251, but I can't afford the $5k for that one. The 16x is obviously overkill with 16 channels, but I can use that for other things.

All this sucks up about $10000. When I get it, I'll post some results for anyone who is interested!

[underworld]

... what about a Lynx Two converter? I really really really enjoy mine.... then you don't have to worry about the extra unused channels, and you probably save a few $$

[Babe Records]

Originally posted by T_R_S
U87==>ISA430==>Rosetta 800==>192 (Left)
C12==>ISA430==>Rosetta 800==>192 (Right)
Stereo Vocals ALWAYS

T_R_S,

How and why do you record stereo vocals? I'm also considering doin this, so i'm very interested by opinions from people who do this...

What's your mics placement, and how do you deal with phase problems? Do you use the Little Labs IBP?

[bobmix]

I've owned several Pendulum pieces, and it is easily some of the best sounding gear I've ever used (and I've worked with almost everything - a lot). The Quartet II has many great features that seem to offer a great deal of sonic versatility. And, Greg (Gaultieri) at Pendulum is a prince.

The mic issue is a tough one - they all sound so different, especially on vocals. The 251/C12 style newer mics are never a bad bet - also, don't forget Gene Lawson's 251-style mic. I LOVE mine. In fact, if you can keep the price down on that piece, you could probably afford one of the newer ribbon mics, as well, which would give you a great range and versatility (one 251/C12-style, one ribbon or dynamic).

Another point to think about is that Lawson offers a "switchable" capsule system - you can have 1 body/electronics, and switch between several different sounding capsules. At $2500 US or less, his mics are, to me, a great value.

Careful of C12A's. I have some, and love them for certain applications, but they can be VERY sizzle-y ca. 3.5-6k.

Have fun!

[lukejs]

Originally posted by oedipus_complex
Not in Australia. 90% of this gear wouldn't even be available in retail stores - you'd have to order it

You're in Australia ? What about the Rode K2 ? any experience with this mic ? I heard it was excellent..and the price is right ...does it compare with the high end names ?

[oedipus_complex]

Originally posted by lukejs
You're in Australia ? What about the Rode K2 ? any experience with this mic ? I heard it was excellent..and the price is right ...does it compare with the high end names ?

I've never used it, but a friend of mine A/B it with a few 'classic' mics including neumanns and akgs and others. His comment: "the K2 ate them up". I guess thats a good thing.

[not_so_new]

Originally posted by oedipus_complex
I've never used it, but a friend of mine A/B it with a few 'classic' mics including neumanns and akgs and others. His comment: "the K2 ate them up". I guess thats a good thing.

The K2 ate them up?????

Don't feel like writing it all again so if you get a chance check this link out here