Manley, Massenburg or Neve ?

[Roland]

Originally posted by WilliamFF
Hi !

My daw mixes are giving me a headace !

I have decided that I want to add an analogue signalpath on the masterbuss and then convert the signal back to my daw.

Lately I have been looking into quite a few compressors\eq's and limiters for this purpose.

Ideally i would want both a compressor and an eq, but I don't know if my budget wil stretch that far...

So, I am thinking of getting a Manley SLAM! It seems to get rave reviews everywhere and it's nice that it has a preamp stage as well as beeing a comp\ limiter. But the preamp is really not a must.

i have heard some nice words about the GML 8900.

And I am looking into the Neve 33609/J & /JD.

What do you think ? I want to add some extra punch, air and sparkle to miy mixes. Are anyone of these prosessors more "coloured" than the other ?

Would it be better to get a cheaper comp\limiter and spend the majority of the dosh on a dedicated eq ? (like, a Drawmer 1968 comp and a Manley Massive passive EQ )

Any input deeply appriciated !
cheers!
W

Vanilla, Chocolate or Strawberry? All these are great devices, but none will be perfect for every situation. I would try and get yourself some time with each before making a decision. Three different people will give you three different answers (possibly), doesn't make any of them wrong.


Regards



Roland

[WilliamFF]

Vanilla, Chocolate or Strawberry? All these are great devices, but none will be perfect for every situation. I would try and get yourself some time with each before making a decision. Three different people will give you three different answers (possibly), doesn't make any of them wrong

Arrgh!! You are making it worse !!

Unfortunatley I cannot spend any time with these boxes before I decide. Sad but true. i live in a third-world country when it comes to audiogear.

I want a box that's good for everything. Maybe not perfect for everything, but a box that, whatever I throw at it, never makes it worse.

hopefully the answers to these questions aren't purely subjective...

Which one of these boxes has the most "airy" sound ?
Which has the "warmest" sound ?
Which has the most "colored" sound ?
Which is the noisiest box ?
Which box is likely to need service first ?
Which is the "loudest" box ? ( produces the loudest sound\volume)
Which is the most famous box ?


cheers!
W

[brownmouse]

Originally posted by WilliamFF

I want a box that's good for everything. Maybe not perfect for everything, but a box that, whatever I throw at it, never makes it worse.

hopefully the answers to these questions aren't purely subjective...

Which one of these boxes has the most "airy" sound ?
Which has the "warmest" sound ?
Which has the most "colored" sound ?
Which is the noisiest box ?
Which box is likely to need service first ?
Which is the "loudest" box ? ( produces the loudest sound\volume)
Which is the most famous box ?

W

if it were me (and it isn't) i would go with one of the following (c-none of the above)...
a) 2x pendulum quartet II's
b) 1x pendulum es-8 (or maybe the drawmer 1968) and 1x great river eq-2nv
there are a million options, but this is the route i would go. from your list, i would personally eliminate the gml, just because it wouldn't have enough 'character' that i'd be looking for. ymmv.
joshua

[MIKEHARRIS]

the Manley SLAM with optional dig i/o is tailor made for this function...add the EQ of choice (Manley/GML/Millennia/CraneSong) and your conversion/compression/EQ/Re-conversion accomplished....the mic pre is a bonus. Alternatively...if you want the components to be available while tracking...the CraneSong HEDD/(insert compressor (s) here)/ EQ from above...will yeild similar high quality results...Butter Pecan anyone?

[duaneadam]

Since you don't need the pre amps on the Slam, I would opt for a Pendulum ES-8 and spend the extra $3k on a good EQ. If you want air, that would be the Cranesong Ibis.

duaneadam

[borut]

if you have the money get the SLAM it rally rocks on master buss
i don't know what exactly id does but the soun gets really CLOSER?? it kind of steps out of the speakers.....

as far as eq goes you might want to wait what's up with lil eq from eli

[C.Lambrechts]

Originally posted by WilliamFF

Would it be better to get a cheaper comp\limiter and spend the majority of the dosh on a dedicated eq ? (like, a Drawmer 1968 comp and a Manley Massive passive EQ )

Any input deeply appriciated !
cheers!
W

I'm not going to add yet another list of devices to the ones allready mentioned ... of course you could look into avalon for example eq wise (ok I did it anyhow) but I feel those things are SOOOOOO subjective once you get in the 'high end' league. What might work for someone might not work at all for others. Like Roland insinuated ... different strokes for different folks and can all be good.

However ... wether to get a cheaper dynamics processor and spend more money on EQ I do have a strong opinion about. I would do it the other way around to be honest. Get a or some good quality dedicated dynamics. You mentioned DAW right ... so software. Personally I find software EQ's WAY ahead in quality compared to dynamics. good outboard compression is definately still worth going through the hassle of patching it in during a mix. You didn't mention if you were looking for stuff to put on a buss or to have on individual tracks .... either way ... I would put the majority of my budget in good dynamics rather then EQ. Not that those aren't worth it ... because they are ... merely because you are on a budget and need to make a choice that would benefit you more. Dynamics first, then EQ .... you can allways add later on.

[WilliamFF]

Great stuff !

The main priority is prosessing the stereo buss, not individual tracks.

Great feedback on the "dynamics vs EQ" !!
I have some nice software eq's (Sony oxford, UAD Pulteq and Cambridge )


Another question: If I have a 16 bit 44.1 mix running out from my soundcard...but run it from TRS cables, and not the digital out... and run it into say the manley SLAM! with the digital i\o....and set the manley to dump the signal back at 24 bit 96...what is going to happen ?

I mean, that would be just like recording a guitar\whatever through he box and convert the signal to 24 bit 96 right ?

I am thinking I would get a much richer mix with a lot more space\headroom...as long as the manley are humping along and the signal is hot enough, the Manley will sample all it's additional harmonics and overtones, right ?

Thanx again !
w

[duaneadam]

if you have the money get the SLAM it rally rocks on master buss

I'm going to have to seriously disagree with that statement unless you are talking about the mastering version. The standard SLAM is phenomenal for what it is designed to do, (dedicated front end), but I didn't care for it on the two buss. Why? The FET limiter swallows the bottom end with light to medium limiting and the opto compressor has no attack or release adjustments. IMHO the Pendulum ES-8, the Manley Vari MU, the Cranesong STC-8 and especially the Weiss DS-1 are all better suited for the master buss.

duaneadam

[lucey]

William I need more info

What music do you do?

And how does it suck? What does it need?



An SSL 384/Smart C1 plus an IBIS come to mind ... but I have no idea what you do?

Maybe a C1 / Massive passive

or an STC-8 / MP


Maybe an API 2500 or Drawmer 1969 and an IBIS/Avalon




(I dont like or use plug in EQ so ...)



Main thing is ....
what do you want to hear????

Originally posted by WilliamFF


I want a box that's good for everything. Maybe not perfect for everything, but a box that, whatever I throw at it, never makes it worse.

Nothing is good for everything but some things come close.

STC-8 and IBIS will never hurt you, for example.

[WilliamFF]

Lucey,

My musical output is quite varied...from classical music ( chamber strings)

to rock'n roll (Neil Young, Velvet Underground, Yo La Tengo, Low, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, White Stripes)

to Alt.Country ( Gillian Welch, Emmylou Harris, Daniel lanois...)

to instrumental hip hop ( DJ Shadow, Amon Tobin, Krush, Funky Porcini...)

to Elektronika ( Aphex Twin, Squarepusher, Autechre, Mike Paradinas, Brothomstaes...)

....and back again...


I want to breathe "life" into my mixes...probably not very informiative i guess...But every time I get home from the mastering studio, the music sounds bigger and more "in my face" ..the bass is more solid, not all over the place...and there is more "space" and "room", and "air" in the mix...it easier to separate the different channels from each other..

and this is NOT slolely due to the skills of the mastering engineer !!

btw, have anyone here tried using the Dangerous 2-BUS ? http://www.dangerousmusic.com/2bus.html

seems summing boxes are all the rage these days ?? And, if me, you really don't have a dedicated mixer, it could be worth a look ?

STC-8 and IBIS will never hurt you, for example

Ok ! Thanx. How's the "color" of these units ?





W

[lucey]

Originally posted by WilliamFF

Thanx. How's the "color" of these units ?

not much color

the STC-8 is clean, a little warm on the low end.

the IBIS is clean yet not sterile and has a color knob that is interesting on some things ... not tube like, just a harmonic thickening.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by WilliamFF


I want to breathe "life" into my mixes...

Sounds like you need someone to mix the tracks more than buy more outboard gear.

Or if you feel competent in your mixing skills, book time in a great studio with excellent monitoring and good gear choices.

It sounds like your mastering engineer is mixing while mastering.

[David R.]

Originally posted by WilliamFF


I want to breathe "life" into my mixes...probably not very informiative i guess...But every time I get home from the mastering studio, the music sounds bigger and more "in my face" ..the bass is more solid, not all over the place...and there is more "space" and "room", and "air" in the mix...it easier to separate the different channels from each other..

This is what a mastering engineer does.

Are you wanting to have your mixes sound like finished master?

I want a box that's good for everything. Maybe not perfect for everything, but a box that, whatever I throw at it, never makes it worse.

That's easy. You want a magic black box. Or maybe, no box at all.

[lucey]

Originally posted by WilliamFF

and this is NOT slolely due to the skills of the mastering engineer !!

this line has me thinking a hoax artist is on the prowl

[brownmouse]

Originally posted by WilliamFF
Lucey,

My musical output is quite varied...from classical music ( chamber strings)

to rock'n roll (Neil Young, Velvet Underground, Yo La Tengo, Low, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, White Stripes)

to Alt.Country ( Gillian Welch, Emmylou Harris, Daniel lanois...)

to instrumental hip hop ( DJ Shadow, Amon Tobin, Krush, Funky Porcini...)

to Elektronika ( Aphex Twin, Squarepusher, Autechre, Mike Paradinas, Brothomstaes...)

....and back again...


I want to breathe "life" into my mixes...probably not very informiative i guess...But every time I get home from the mastering studio, the music sounds bigger and more "in my face" ..the bass is more solid, not all over the place...and there is more "space" and "room", and "air" in the mix...it easier to separate the different channels from each other..

and this is NOT slolely due to the skills of the mastering engineer !!

btw, have anyone here tried using the Dangerous 2-BUS ? http://www.dangerousmusic.com/2bus.html

seems summing boxes are all the rage these days ?? And, if me, you really don't have a dedicated mixer, it could be worth a look ?




Ok ! Thanx. How's the "color" of these units ?





W

i'd personally go with the pendulum es-8 and a great stereo eq unit (maybe the great river mp-2nv or the massive passive or cranesong ibis....)
joshua

[WilliamFF]

this line has me thinking a hoax artist is on the prowl

..?? could you riddle me that again ?

Whatever I am landing on, I am still going to take my records to a mastering studio. More options, more boxes and fresh ears...

But I want to get as self sufficient as I possibly can. The means of production is sorted. Down cold. The mixing is not...

Sounds like you need someone to mix the tracks more than buy more outboard gear.

I am not saying I couldn't learn a thing or two about mixing, but I have NO outboard gear, (save preamps and microphones) and I think a small but good analogue signal patch might help towards adding some life into my digits ...

w

[lucey]

Originally posted by WilliamFF

I am not saying I couldn't learn a thing or two about mixing, but I have NO outboard gear, (save preamps and microphones) and I think a small but good analogue signal patch might help towards adding some life into my digits ...

okay W, seems like you are for real

welcome to the world of outboard

buy anything ... in short order you'll wish you had more options

my sense for you is API 2500 ... it can go clean or add color.

or STC-8. always good at tracking too.





if you are still using mastering I'd skip the mix buss eq

[Roland]

Ok, so you say you want to breathe life into your mixes, personally I don't thinkany of the boxes you or others here have mentioned is going to do quite what you want.

IMHO the problem probably lies in your mixes. Having mastered thousands of albums both for myself and clients of mine in my experience the devices that are being talked about here can enhance a good recording (as part of the mastering process) but will not put the magic into recordings that aren't there or there abouts already.

The magic and air as you put it start with the talent in front of the microphone followed by good engineering and production skills note this doesn't mean expensive, flash equipment as I have heard fantastic recordings produced with basic tools and dreadful ones out of major facilities.

Equipment can help, but a good engineer can produce great results on fairly basic stuff. Mike Shipley, when he was a guest moderator on this board posted a track that he had recorded for a critique, it sounded wonderful and yet was recorded on a very basic set up. If you really are looking to get the best from your system I would look at buying a couple more good microphones or instruments.


Regards




Roland

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by WilliamFF
Another question: If I have a 16 bit 44.1 mix running out from my soundcard...but run it from TRS cables, and not the digital out... and run it into say the manley SLAM! with the digital i\o....and set the manley to dump the signal back at 24 bit 96...what is going to happen ?

What is going to happen is that you should probably just shoot the audio in the head and watch it bleed out on the carpet...

If you're running a Lynx you might have half a shot at some kinda good audio, but anything other than that, like an RME... you're so fukked from the git-go that none of this other crap is going to save you.

A SLAM! is a neat thing, I've not heard the digital i/o, but I've played with a SLAM! and they're pretty cool... but... GIGO [Garbage In, Garbage Out].

The only box I know that can do one sample rate for the D/A and another sample rate for the A/D is the Crane Song LTD. "HEDD-192"... and with the "HEDD-192" you also get a nice range of processing stuff that can help thicken / air out the audio all without leaving the digital domain... with [IMNTLBFHO] a great, professional quality, converter set in both directions.

If you don't have really good conversion, then all the hardware in between won't be able to live up to it's full potential.

Peace.