I am about to mix my debut album and need some tips

[kellyd]

b.c.

Man, I will say that you have one of the best attitudes I've seen on GS. Many have questioned whether you should do it alone and it never turned into a pissing match.
Sounds like you have put a lot more thought into this than some of us have given you credit for.
Good luck on the session. Try to get the best assistant they have. That will at least free you up a bit on the technical end. Routing, patching etc.. in a new studio.

[Sonic Nomad]

Well there's obviously a vibe that's catching the ear in the current 128 k mp3's.
The important thing would be to retain this, else you could end up loosing the magic that currently exists.
Stick to mixing yourself and don't try too hard to improve on something that's already good. Just use the studio to get better quality.

Perhaps you should even go as far as to take your system into the studio and just run the mixes through the desk or put a multichannel out soundcard on your system and use the studios desk for summing. Or take stems to to the studio.

The fact that you've had several offers in it's current form says a lot. Be careful not to loose what's already happening... tutt

just my 2cents.

[Barish]

Originally Posted by bckid

...i will have an experienced engineer by my side, who is familiar with that particular studio...

So that's you, set up then, eh? Good luck. You are already a winner with that attitude. Keep the vibe going man.

All the best.

M.


Note to Fletcher: You took the climbing from a different route just to object to me but in the end, met me at the same point at the top with your final paragraph, sir

What goes around comes around.

But you rock bottom, as always.

Peace, indeed.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by bckid

so here i am. beeing a bit nervous because of the responsibility .

All in all... what's the worst thing that could happen? You get some time in a proper studio, you mix the record and it's either well received or it ain't. If it is then you're on the bonus plan... if it ain't then you'll still have gotten some experience on someone else's dime.

Best of luck with the project!! ... most of all I'd suggest you plan on trying to please yourself with the music. Forget about the Neeeeeev thing [V-3's ain't all that great though they're definitely better than a "Ghost"], PT HD ain't all that great though it'll be way better than any level of MP-3.

Have fun!!

Peace.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by ThomasWho

There is no such thing as THE right way to mix music. Or one way to balance a vocal. This is Art , he`s expressing himself . And this attitude of "let the pro`s fix it" is presicely what he should avoid because it leads to boring art.

there's no one right way to mix a song, but there are at least a million ineffective ways.

ironically, you quote me, yet i'm one of the only people who actually answered his technical questions. but nobody here (that i can see) is saying "let the pro's fix it", we're saying "let a pro focus on the technicals of the mix, so the artist is free to focus on the overall vision and the songs". does that not serve the art powerfully?

speaking of assumptions, you continually assume the OP will create an unusual and interesting mix. ime, this is actually more difficult to achieve than a conventional mix. i have no idea whether he can do it, but i'm completely unclear on how having a seasoned engineer working the console prevents him from doing so, and feel very strongly that it will only make it that much more possible.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by bckid

i found a decent studio working w/ a neve v3, universal audio, urei, eventide, dbx stuff AND the label is willing to give some money for the final mix OTB.

i'd rent an eventide before you even go into the studio. the eventide is one of those boxes where you start running trax thru it and it will completely change your mix... in fact, i'd say it's something you'd wanna nail down in tracking as opposed to mixing because it can take up that much space... its an idea box.

you can lose your mind in the hundreds of eventide programs.. so it's something you want to have an idea about before you're on the clock.. but it can also really add to the track.. so i recommend spending some quality time with one.

the eventide i use most often is the dsp4000.. and generally i end up turning elements off within a preset to get it to do what i want. each program has an INFO page which explains what it's supposed to do.. so this is a good starting point.

basically an eventide is a very big, complex delay... so you'll use it for micro-pitch shift, delay, spaces, chorus, resonators, those kinds of things... its great for taking one sound you wanna beef up and turning it into 1000... and it sounds "expensive".

i'm in the minority in that i happen to like the sound of the reverbs... a lot of ppl dont and want the lexicon sound... but 9 times out of 10 i'll pick the 'tide over the pcm90.. so give it a whirl.

i am about to render all tracks down to put them into PT HD or Logic 8 track by track. here´s my first question: which DAW would you choose to put the files into? both are hardwired to a Neve V3. most engineers seem to like PT for sound quality. my problem is, that i worked with PT a couple of years ago and it might last some time to get fluid again with the software. and studio time is expensive...

get an mbox ($200 used) to do all your editing. HD will open LE sessions no prob... sell the mbox when yer done and it essentially costs nothing but time.

i rip my hair out if i have to edit in logic for any period of time.

my second question is about the dynamics and eq´s. i used a lot of the waves ssl stuff for dyn and eqing. should i deactivate all and start from scratch with the neves channel comp and eq? that would mean a lot of tweaking again and might lead to a totally different color of sound..

print/save what you've done.. you can probably use it in places. depending on what your songs sound like they might benefit from a big/small approach where "small" is verse/plugs and "big" is chorus/analog.. or vice versa.. who knows?

in other words.. you presumably worked hard for those sounds so use em... at least till something better comes along.

mixing is about contrast.. and the more contrast you can create, the better. so EXPLOIT those differences. make them your beeotch, homey.

would you suggest, to mix down the stuff on tape? i have heard rumours, that electronic material does not benefit that much of tape saturation..
but if there´s a chance to mixdown onto a decent (i think its) studer tape machine.

whoever has been saying that electronic music doesnt like tape should be lined up and shot. its just a flat-out lie.

electronic sounds need more help from transformers, tape, tubes, etc than acoustic sounds do IMO... my fave preamp for electronic sounds is a chandler limited germanium.. and ppl say its about the most colored box out there.

oh, and run the studer at 15ips... a mix doesnt sound finished to me till it plays back off the 1/4"

[Sonic Nomad]

Originally Posted by 3rd world order

i'd rent an eventide before you even go into the studio. the eventide is one of those boxes where you start running trax thru it and it will completely change your mix... in fact, i'd say it's something you'd wanna nail down in tracking as opposed to mixing because it can take up that much space... its an idea box.

you can lose your mind in the hundreds of eventide programs.. so it's something you want to have an idea about before you're on the clock.. but it can also really add to the track.. so i recommend spending some quality time with one.

the eventide i use most often is the dsp4000.. and generally i end up turning elements off within a preset to get it to do what i want. each program has an INFO page which explains what it's supposed to do.. so this is a good starting point.

basically an eventide is a very big, complex delay... so you'll use it for micro-pitch shift, delay, spaces, chorus, resonators, those kinds of things... its great for taking one sound you wanna beef up and turning it into 1000... and it sounds "expensive".

+1
Great idea. Be careful though, cause you may land up wanting to buy one like I did and they are not cheap. Try explaining to the wife why the nice silver box and it's remote cost so much!!

They are however worth every cent.

Yes you'll need some time to get your head around it. Eventides are really amazing. There's is nothing in the plugin world that can do what these things do.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by ThomasWho

This is just my opinion , of course , but I´d rather hear an interesting and unusual mix. Which is exactly what people like Spike does , that`s why they get the gigs.

Thomas

Much as I like Spike's mixes, I'd much more put him in the "know what you're getting" rather than "interesting and unusual" - and to be honest, I think a lot of dedicated mix engineers are like that. Andy Wallace, Chris Sheldon, Chris L-A - you know what their mixes are going to aim for before you even give it to them. Which may be a good or bad thing. The vast majority of producer-engineers who want more unusual mixes tend to do it themselves I would say. I think most mix engineers, unless the client specifically said "go crazy!" or sat in and directed things, would play it safe.

That said - a 2nd pair of ears is always good. Have you considered the option you might be a little close to the project to do it justice?

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by bckid

unfortunately his schedule was too busy to fit the mixjob in. he then sent me to some colleagues he thought they´d do a good job on this one. but while listening to their showreels i realized, that their approach on music would not fit my/the music´s needs. plus the money they wanted for this job would have killed the budget. (music biz is a bitch these days and you never know...)



b.c.

How do you know that they'd do the same for your songs?

Their rell may be a reflection of their clients requests.

[Mike Caffrey]

I was talking to someone about this thread today and I can now articulate my opinion pretty succinctly.

In my opinion, and I think most people here would agree, an engineer's first album mix will be his worst as every time you mix you get a little bit better.

So people who record their first album and "hire" themselves to do the mix are getting the worst mix that that particular engineer will ever do.

The same is true for tracking.


I'm not saying that people should never record or mix themselves or their first albums, but you can be pretty certain that it's not the best work you can get for your songs.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Much as I like Spike's mixes, I'd much more put him in the "know what you're getting" rather than "interesting and unusual" - and to be honest, I think a lot of dedicated mix engineers are like that. Andy Wallace, Chris Sheldon, Chris L-A - you know what their mixes are going to aim for before you even give it to them. Which may be a good or bad thing. The vast majority of producer-engineers who want more unusual mixes tend to do it themselves I would say. I think most mix engineers, unless the client specifically said "go crazy!" or sat in and directed things, would play it safe.

That said - a 2nd pair of ears is always good. Have you considered the option you might be a little close to the project to do it justice?

I don't know if i agree.

Most guys especially that are that established just mix to what they hear. No one consciously sets out to make a staple sounding mix of themselves. It just comes out that way.

It really is dependent on the song and production.

I mean CLA mixed Green Day and Snow Patrol and each record(especially the vocals) sounds different to itself.

Same for goes for Spike who did No Doubt and the Spice Girls but also did Bjork and Massive Attack.

And Bjork didn't tell Spike to go wild when he first did "Homogenic". He did that one all himself. It actually shocked her when she first heard what he did(especially to the Deodato String arrangements) and all of the distortion on her vocals.

[James Lehmann]

Originally Posted by bckid

the label is willing to give some money for the final mix OTB.

Don't fall into that old trap - there's no such thing as 'giving money' in the music business! Your label will deduct whatever advance expenses you have from your (eventual) share of the (potential) royalties.

Moving on to the mixing - if this is for a whole album I would farm out one of your tracks to a number of different mixers and ask what they'd do with it, or even better for a demo mix. That might not work for you with the busy and famous Mr Stent obviously, but if there's a worthwhile contract in the offing for mixing the whole album I suspect many jobbing mix engineers and/or studios might give it a go, in the same way that architects bidding for a big design job make a model proposal for client evaluation first.

You need to meet these people too, or at least chat with them on the phone - you absolutely need to establish a good personal rapport with whoever you will be working with so closely for the next weeks/months.

[Empire Prod]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

In my opinion, and I think most people here would agree, an engineer's first album mix will be his worst as every time you mix you get a little bit better.

So people who record their first album and "hire" themselves to do the mix are getting the worst mix that that particular engineer will ever do.

This is the truth. But I ask you this....How often do people honestly want to hear the truth?

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by Sonic Nomad

Eventides are really amazing. There's is nothing in the plugin world that can do what these things do.

Yep, but the Eventide plug-ins get pretty close.

[Sonic Nomad]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Yep, but the Eventide plug-ins get pretty close.

So I hear. Nice to to have if you got HD.

[bckid]

Hey slutz,

i had a busy time the last days and found some time to come back to the board.

the mastering for the 12 inch happend to be very good. after working on the tracks for 2 more days and nights with 2 hrs sleep a night everything turned out very well. i had to reshape one track because of some sonic issues. but in the end the mastering engineer did not have to tweak the stuff too much. actually there was even one track, which just needed some filtering in the subs and the rest was perfect. made me a little proud...

(a sidenote for the historical slutz: the vinylcut was made on an neumann machine which was already used by the motown studios in the 70´s)

then i had a meeting with my engineer. he is a really nice and patient guy and was listening carefully to what i had to say. we listened to a couple of songs, so he could get an impression of the material. he already came up with some nice ideas and suggestions for some elements. i have the feeling we will develop a good chemistry.

i checked the outboard once again. esp heading to the eventide stuff, remembering your tips. unfortunately they have just have an h 3000s.
but i will try to get smth out of this one anyways (esp on the vocals ??).
the engineer will ask the owner if it is possible for me to rent this thing for a couple of days to get familiar with and probably record some sfx before mixing..

having the protools tip () on my mind i bought an mbox 2 today. i thought its a good idea to have a protools in da house anyways and chose the mb2 because of the spdif option, so i could upgrade the converters with an apogee minime for the next project. but somehow i dont like it..
its one of the units with that ugly whining noise appearing as soon as you start pt. i ´ll exchange tomorrow and if it´s not getting better i think i´ll downgrade to an mb 2 mini as these units seem to not have this problem.

anyways. it was fun to slip into protools again after 3 years of absence. i did not know what i was missing editing and workflowwise.. its the same feeling as entering mcdonalds or starbucks when touring asia for 3 weeks feels like coming home...

depending the discussion of hiring/not hiring the external mixengineer:
hearing a showreel should give you an idea of the "sound" somebody is capable to provide. and if it does not fit your idea... it just does not fit.

quoting a very popular producer/dj: "if there is nobody out there to make the music YOU like, you just have to create it on your own."

and yes indeed: this actual project consists of some very unusual sounds and arrangements. this was also stated by the distribution guys we had a meeting with yesterday. and they use to hear a LOT of music. they said, there is a good chance to hit a certain niche and are very excited to work with the material.

i´d like to thank you all again for you input. its really pushing me and my project forward and gives me some real inspiration.

and now the download of the windows update i need to install pt 7.4 is finished and i will check out pt´s elastic audio. from what i saw and heard on some videos it might even sound a little better than the ableton algorythm...

cheers ya all.

b.c.

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by bckid

i checked the outboard once again. esp heading to the eventide stuff, remembering your tips. unfortunately they have just have an h 3000s. but i will try to get smth out of this one anyways (esp on the vocals ??).

that's fine.. a lot of ppl like the particular sound of the h3000 better than the newer stuff.. so dont worry about that.. you can still get a lot of cool stuff out of one and it's not really a downgrade.

vocals, guitars, synths, delays & spaces, thickeners... it can be used very subtly or for over the top madness... you really need to play around with one for awhile to get the feel. my DSP4000 is a universe of it's own that i can never fully explore...

protools is still the only app i can edit in without thinking of what i'm doing... its like my first language... i still have to translate in my head when i'm using something else.