Mic dilemma - what I can do with my money...

[popvulture]

I need a good LD tube condenser mic which will be used predominantly for vocals, plus probably some acoustic guitar and whatever other things it might turn out to excel at.

I've worked with a Manley Reference mic recently and have really liked the sound of it and its versatility, but I'm wondering - with the Manley around $2700, are there other mics out there with a smaller price tag that might be up to the task and leave me with some cash left over to spend elsewhere?

Other things I've been considering:

1. People rave about Pearlmans so much on here that I can't help but wonder if that might be a better option.

2. Someone recently recommended buying an original Groove Tubes MD1A (not the reissue) off of ebay. Maybe?

3. A Telefunken AK47 - People have described the sound as being distinctly dark, vintage and "warm" (all overused descriptions), but that's kind of the sound I'd gravitate towards most.

So that's that. Please keep in mind though that I'm not a professional; I'm running a project studio to record my own music and occasional scoring for commercials (I'm an animator/graphic designer by trade and there's some overlap occasionally). I'm not going to be buying several different LD tube condensers for different applications - I'm looking for something that's solid as a general purpose vocal (plus whatever else) mic.

My current setup is, if it helps:

Mac Pro dual quad 2.8
Apogee Ensemble
LA-610
FMR RNC + RNP
Logic
Dynaudio BM5A's
Mics: 58s, 57s, Soundelux U195, Copperphone

[DesertDawg]

IMO, nowadays there's a freakin' plethora of mics you can buy for $2,700 or less that are really, truly, great mics, tube or not... especially if you're willing to consider used mics as well as new.

This should be a good thread.

[ryancork]

Have you considered trying a Studio Projects T3. They can be had for around 500 to 600 new. It has been well received as a good vocal mic. In my application it's a touch on the bright side, but takes EQ well. Best of all it's only a fraction of the manley which leaves room for a stereo pair of Cascade FATHEADs.

[Knastratt]

Brauner. Phantom Classic or Valvet.

[popvulture]

I know Brauner makes highly regarded mics, but I wasn't aware that they had an "affordable" model. The Phantom Classic seems like a great option to explore. I have to ask though - I know its more accessible price point isn't the equivalent of Squier to Fender, but how much changes from the $1900 Phantom to your other recommended mic, the $3500+ Valvet?

I really appreciate the advice... I'd love to hear more about these mics. Spending almost 1K less than the Manley would leave some wiggle room to put some money towards a Neve-y pre.

[kittonian]

Peluso 2247SE sounds like exactly what you're looking for. Awesome mic and one I use every single day.

[popvulture]

Any experience with the LE / German tube version of the Peluso?

[Doc Mixwell]

The Brauner Valvet is a seriously cool sounding microphone.........reminds me of a REALLY good sounding U67.

You guys also need to check out the InnerTube Mag Mic......
THE MM2006 IS A BEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RawBeanZen]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

You guys also need to check out the InnerTube Mag Mic......
THE MM2006 IS A BEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mine's on the way...BWA HA HAA!!!

OK, sorry for the off topic. As you were...

[popmann]

The TeleAK47 or the short body Peluso2247 isn't close to the calibur mic of the Manley, IMO. I don't have any experience with Brauner, 2247se, or Groove Tubes experience to pass along.

If the Manley were multipattern, I'd own one. It's a little pricey for a cardioid only mic, though, IMO.

I guess I should throw in that the Manley blacks I've used were low serial number, while still using the 6072 tube...they've changed that, and I don't know how it impacted that sonic qualities.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by popvulture

I need a good LD tube condenser mic which will be used predominantly for vocals

Why a large diaphragm "tube" condenser? Why not a ribbon? Why not a dynamic? Why not a large diaphragm FET condenser? All can be very viable options... there is no law that says you're not a studio unless you have a large diaphragm tube condenser microphone [though many seem to gravitate toward them for the simple reason that they think they MUST have one to be a "real" studio].

Check out the Crowley and Tripp "Studio Vocalist"... check out a Shure SM-7b... check out a Microtech Gefell UM-70S... check out a few things and ascertain your real needs... as opposed to your "quest for fashion" self imposed prejudiced requirements.

Serve the music!!

Peace.

[j-madd]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Why a large diaphragm "tube" condenser? Why not a ribbon? Why not a dynamic? Why not a large diaphragm FET condenser? All can be very viable options... there is no law that says you're not a studio unless you have a large diaphragm tube condenser microphone [though many seem to gravitate toward them for the simple reason that they think they MUST have one to be a "real" studio].

Check out the Crowley and Tripp "Studio Vocalist"... check out a Shure SM-7b... check out a Microtech Gefell UM-70S... check out a few things and ascertain your real needs... as opposed to your "quest for fashion" self imposed prejudiced requirements.

Serve the music!!

Peace.

UMT 70s is a great vocal mic in my experience and will save you some serious cash for around $1500. Plus it can be used for acoustic GTRs, drum room. Great all around high quality LD condenser (but no tubes).

Justin

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by 529 Pro Audio

I guess I can understand your dubiousness on the Pearlman hype, but I've yet to find a better sounding mic for the money than the TM-1.

Besides your company's inventory... how hard have you looked? I've found 10 or 12 things for well under $2,700 that would enable me to make an outstanding sounding recording.

I'm sure Dave is indeed a wonderful man who stands behind his product like a mama Lion protects her cubs... but the mics I heard [albeit a couple of years ago... there could be something new I haven't heard... but would love to hear] were kinda "eh... what's the point" [in my opinion, for my applications].

I'd quite enjoy hearing them again if there is something new... but the fact remains that "nice guys" don't end up on my recordings... sounds end up on my recordings. While the aspect of our business that provides recording equipment won't work with a manufacturer that isn't a quality human being [which hurts us at times but we sleep very well at night] the recording aspect of our business runs on the merit of the tools and nothing less.

"Good for the money" ain't good unless it's actually "good" period. Nobody listening to a recording gives a rat's ass if you used a $75- Shure SM-57 or a $15,000 fill in the blank to record the vocals so long as the music is good and the tone suits the artist's sense of aesthetic [and can deliver the emotional content of the performance... as most can but many can not]... however quality tools can certainly assist with the conveyance of emotion and on really good days can even inspire a performer to perform a little better than they're capable as the sound in their cans elevates them to another level. This "elevation" of performance is my goal every time I hang a vocal mic... I'd say once in about 100 - 150 times it actually happens... but when it does, it can be magic.

Peace.

[kittonian]

Originally Posted by popvulture

Any experience with the LE / German tube version of the Peluso?

Yes, of course. The two sound identical with the exception that the EF-14 tube used in the LE has a 2db higher noise floor over the SE. For some reason, some people like to know that a NOS EF-14 is inside their mic (although no one will ever see it or know about it unless you take the mic apart and show them). To me, I'd rather have a 2db quieter microphone that sounds amazing.

Also, there are two other things to consider.

1. When the EF-14's run out (although Peluso does have quite a few) they're gone because they haven't been manufactured in many years. So, you might find yourself on eBay paying upwards of $1200/tube if/when you ever need a replacement. This is what the original U47 owners who need a VF-14 are going through right now. You don't have this issue with the SE because the tubes are still being made.

2. The SE is $50 less expensive than the LE and overall, it's a better microphone because of the points I addressed above. This is why I always recommend (and own) the SE over the LE.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Check out the Crowley and Tripp "Studio Vocalist"... check out a Shure SM-7b... check out a Microtech Gefell UM-70S

Fletcher, I notice you mention the UM-70S here. I just bought a pair of UMT70S's (thanks, Mercenary!), and have yet to find anything I don't like them on, but I know from searching around there are those who prefer the UM over the UMT (which is predictable because the UM is older). You?

(so that this isn't a hijack, consider this a whole-hearted endorsement for the UMT70S!)

[seaneldon]

Originally Posted by kittonian

Yes, of course. The two sound identical with the exception that the EF-14 tube used in the LE has a 2db higher noise floor over the SE. For some reason, some people like to know that a NOS EF-14 is inside their mic (although no one will ever see it or know about it unless you take the mic apart and show them). To me, I'd rather have a 2db quieter microphone that sounds amazing.

Also, there are two other things to consider.

1. When the EF-14's run out (although Peluso does have quite a few) they're gone because they haven't been manufactured in many years. So, you might find yourself on eBay paying upwards of $1200/tube if/when you ever need a replacement. This is what the original U47 owners who need a VF-14 are going through right now. You don't have this issue with the SE because the tubes are still being made.

2. The SE is $50 less expensive than the LE and overall, it's a better microphone because of the points I addressed above. This is why I always recommend (and own) the SE over the LE.

Some questions/observations...

2dB of difference in noise floor makes one microphone universally better than another? Really? I guess I should start paying more attention to specifications!

You're reporting that there is no sonic difference between two different tubes, all other things being the same. In my experience, changing a tube in any circuit will alter the sound of said circuit. How is this microphone different? Is Mr. Peluso using magic?

Tested Telefunken EF14's go for $200-300. Very different from $1200, no? Maybe the average price will go up a little as the supply starts to diminish...but I don't think the EF14 will be a $1200 tube even 15 years from now.

[foldback]

I have many good commercial studio quality microphones but still have never heard "THE ONE" that just blows me away on MY voice. The problem may be my voice but I will keep trying anyway.

After much internal debate I finally broke down and bought a Peluso 2247LE, you know, the one that comes with whatever old Telefunken tube Peluso Mic Lab is stuffing them with this week. The old black tube in my mic is a "12", not a "14". After looking at the Peluso web site more carefully, I notice that they no longer tell you a tube model number. Supply must be dwindling on the "#14 Steel tube".

The tube does not really matter, the sound is what matters. Everyone that has recorded with my new microphone (including me) has been very happy with how the tracks sound.

MY 2247LE microphone sounds lushess, huge and dripping wet. The highs have a sweetness that my U-87, U-89, SM-7, RE-20, AKG 414, 480, PZM, NTK, R-121, M-500 and other mics, don't have. When you get the mic preamp gain set so the recording artist can work the proximity effect available, the Peluso 2247LE can help effectively create magic.

I have been plugging the 2247LE into an Apogee Duet mic preamp and recording it into Logic 8. With a little compression and a limiter in Logic, the tracks mixed out of the Duet sound very satisfying. My D-35 sounds like a rare prized instrument with this mic on it, definitely the fastest way to improve any recorded acoustic guitar. My monitor setup is a Neve 8816 monitor controller and Meyer HD-1 monitors or Yamaha NS-10M powered with a Bryston 4B.

An alternative recording chain I've been excited with is to plug the Peluso mic into an API 3124 preamp, then into an LA-2 for a couple dB of compression, then into the Duet balanced input for recording in Logic. This adds even more "biggness" to the recorded sound but the tone stays understandable, never washed out or blurry, big and tight with clarity and presence.

Inside the 2247LE body there is not much in there, looks like about six capacitors and four resistors plus the tube. I have the electronics background to create my own Chinese mic hotrods but finally decided to try the Peluso after reading Barry Rudophs review of the SE model in a recent Mix magazine. I'd rather be recording instead of soldering and experimenting with electronics, I'm so glad I bought this mic.

Stop waiting, if you have been wanting to experiment with sound pickup-quality similar to what Frank or Dean used. Work with a good dealer who will let you return the mic if you really don't like it. I'd be surprised if there are many returns on this mic regardless of which old steel Telefunky tube comes in it. BTW, mine also came with a three year warranty. That is three times better than most warranties these days.

Nathan at Atlas Pro Audio had the mic in stock, shipped it the day I ordered it and was very nice on the phone. I don't know him, this was the first time I ever bought from him.

[popvulture]

In response to what Fletcher said about my maybe thinking or assuming that I NEED a tube LDC, I totally understand the sentiment, but that's not really what I'm basing my shopping perspective on...

I love 57s of course- they're so great all over the place, and I own a couple. I've been meaning to buy one of the TAB Funkenwerk transformer models, but just haven't gotten around to it. I've also heard a lot about the SM7, of course, which I'll probably buy eventually. Neither of those mics are very expensive, and I'm totally into the idea of them and have no objection to the fact that they could be a better choice sometimes over a tube condenser, depending on the application.

That said, I still want a tube LDC. I love the sound of a dark, warm, tube-driven condenser, so maybe I'll consider the AK47 as a front runner with my price limitations... the comment about the Pearlman not being the best choice for someone seeking a dark sound is much appreciated. I definitely don't want a tube mic that's going to have an overly bright or generally neutral character. In fact, a more pronounced character's exactly what I'm looking for.

I guess my general point of view is that I'm trying to buy things that are going to push me away from how sterile my digital recording setup can sound. As I said in the beginning, I'm not building a full-on, wide application recording studio here - more just a nice setup to record my own music and some sound design, and if that sound is tubey and gooey, then I'll be happy. It fits the kind of music I make.

Thanks for all the input, everybody. I'm appreciative that this thread is still getting some attention.

Pal
ATX