DAC-1 and SACD or DVD-A Possible?

[Tibbon]

Ok, so i'm pretty excited to hear some SACDs, but no matter what the salesman at Best Buy or Crutchfield tell me, the convertors (stereo SACD) aren't going to be anywhere as good as my DAC-1.

However, every salesman seems to tell me that it's impossible, and that NO SACD or DVD-A players output AES/EBU or over Optical for my DAC-1 :(

The closest thing is some Sony DVD player (XA9000ES) that outputs over Firewire. Apparently you must buy a Sony reciever to make it work though (too bad it doesn't work with the Firewire on my Mac, or problem solved... at least partially).

I've seen some SACD players at Best Buy that look appealing, but i'm not about to use some $5 convertors and try to hear the "quality" of the whole thing.

What's the point of SACD if you aren't able to use decent convertors? I've been told 2 things. The first is that the 'normal' digital inputs on my convertor can't handle the bandwidth, and need a special SACD decoder built in... Bullshit, my DAC-1 Handles 192/24 like a champ! The other side is copyright stuff etc.... when did they make copyright mean that you can't listen to your stuff on decent equipment?

Sounds about as smart as the copy bit on DAT Tapes...

Any advice?

[Cellotron]

Thing is that your DAC-1 can decode PCM only. An SACD player is sending out a 1 bit 2.822MHz DSD stream - so you need a DSD DA converter.

High end DSD converters are made by:
dCS http://www.dcsltd.co.uk
EMM Labs http://www.emmlabs.com
Genex - http://www.genex.co.uk
Prism - http://www.prismsound.com

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Tibbon]

Thanks for a good answer. I'd rather not have to buy another ~1000 dollar convertor, but I guess i have to ask... is there a "Convertor" that converts from DSD to PCM?

And in addition, so do any SACD players currently out there output the DSD stream? Which ones?

And has anyone sat down and listened to the built in convertors on these with good monitors? I've only been able to hear them quickly in stores, which are pretty poor listening enviorments.

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally posted by Tibbon
Thanks for a good answer. I'd rather not have to buy another ~1000 dollar convertor...

You won't have to worry about that. There aren't any standalone DSD converters in that price range anyway, that I'm aware of. Probably you're looking at more like $4K-6K. More for the Meitner box.

[Cellotron]

All SACD players that I am aware of are outputting DSD. That's what makes them an SACD player.

There's a lot of DVD-A players that have spdif outs so that you could tie these to your DAC-1. I'd suggest going to an audiophile store instead of something generic like a Best Buy if you truly want to get better info.

If you need to convert from DSD to PCM affordable (although a lot more than just a g!) workstations are made by SADIE - http://www.sadie.com/fr_index.html?/...prod_dsd8.html
& Pyramix http://www.merging.com/2002/structure/frameProddsd.htm

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Tibbon]

So let me get this right... there is absolutely no product in existance that can convert a DSD Stream into 192khz/24-bit or 96khz/24-bit PCM streams or something that could be compatable with SPDIF or AES/EBU? Either that or you have to buy a SaDie workstation just to be able to listen to music?

Is it because it's impossible to convert between different standards, or because no one has been smart enough to make the product (and make a good bit of money in the process)?...

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally posted by Tibbon
So let me get this right... there is absolutely no product in existance that can convert a DSD Stream into 192khz/24-bit or 96khz/24-bit PCM streams or something that could be compatable with SPDIF or AES/EBU?

I'm almost certain that the new dCS converters will do just that. But not for $1K.

Here's what you need.


dCS Elgar plus - 24/192 - DSD D/A Converter
• Sample rates: 32, 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 & 192kS/s
• 24 bit resolution
• 8 digital inputs
• Sony DSD digital input via IEEE1394 interface


U.K. Retail price £9,499
including tax at 17.5%

_

For the currency conversion challenged, that's only US $17,000.

Are those built-in converters looking any better yet?

Actually, in all fairness to dCS who make great converters, you can get the pro line rackmount stuff for under $6000.

[jdunn]

There's a nice player you can get for $470, or the newer one for $520. It's the Pioneer Elite DV-45A. Not only is it a progressive scan dvd player, but it plays dvd-audio, sacd, and even mp3. There is a digital coaxial s/pdif ouput on the back, but the SACD stream is only available from the analog outs I believe. DVD-Audio discs can be output to a DAC-1 via s/pdif I would think. Anyway, the converters are pretty decent sounding, Burr Brown chips, and the price is nice.

World Gift Center/Pioneer weblink

And why would you want to convert an SACD stream into PCM just so you can use your studio converter? That totally defeats the purpose of SACD.

[hollywood_steve]

And why would you want to convert an SACD stream into PCM just so you can use your studio converter? That totally defeats the purpose of SACD.

Exactly !

On the other hand, I'm probably one of the only guys on the whole GS forum who regulary does just this exact thing. Let me explain:
My Genex recorder will happily convert DSD to any bit depth and sample rate of PCM you choose. And as long as my clients are from the low budget end of the pool, they will be requesting their final product on 16/44 CDs. So I regularly record to DSD, convert to PCM and send the PCM output to a computer with CD Architect on it. Sounds like what you were describing, and all yours for only $5k, or so.

But other than having clients who can't afford to produce an SACD, I can't think of many other reasons for doing this..... certainly not for listening purposes.

[recordista]

Mytek is working on a DSD/PCM DAC, probably under $2500.

[Tibbon]

Ok, fair enough. It seems that there are alot more PCM D/A convertors on the market than DSD convertors, and i'm sure the price of DSD convertors will drop over time.

I guess I just wanted to be able to use a really good set of convertors that happen to have sitting around. I know that the DAC-1 really makes CDs shine over the standard Digi 001 convertors. and the 192 convertors, so i figured if my $1000 2 ch convertor (DAC1) beats my Digi devices which are basically just convertors and a computer interface, that it would beat the shit outta a DVD player and set of 6 convertors that costs $300.

I guess it's just too bad there isn't some middle ground for the DSD convertors. It seems that you can get A/D and D/A convertors for PCM for all levels of cost and quality.

[Tibbon]

Oh and is there any way to play SACDs on a computer asides from buying another $5000 workstation?

[Worleybird]

So, what might be obvious to others isn't so obvious to me...what is it that Mytek's new stereo 192 SRC will do?
and can you convert PCM to DSD? what's the difference? what is PCM? what is DSD. I feel clueless here. I thought you converted an analogue signal into digital, I didn't realize there were different flavors of digital.
Why wouldn't you want to convert DSD to digital?
why is it that you would loose the point of DSD?0

[Lynn Fuston]

Do a google search for "Sony SACD" and you'll find the answers at their authoritative site.

[Worleybird]

not sure if you are serious or kidding...

I have looked around and get lots of debate between PCM and DSD.

It kind of seems like the point/strength of DSD is inexpensive, high quality DAC with consumer level devices. It seems debatable if you are better off capturing in PCM or DSD.

IF you want to make a DVD-A or SACD, how do you convert from PCM to DSD?

[Worleybird]

Wow...sorry for all of the acronyms...and I hope I got them all right.

[tptman]

Originally posted by jdunn
There's a nice player you can get for $470, or the newer one for $520. It's the Pioneer Elite DV-45A. Not only is it a progressive scan dvd player, but it plays dvd-audio, sacd, and even mp3. There is a digital coaxial s/pdif ouput on the back, but the SACD stream is only available from the analog outs I believe. DVD-Audio discs can be output to a DAC-1 via s/pdif I would think.

I do just that - I have the DV-45A going SPDIF out (on lightpipe so I can use CoAx for DAW monitoring) into the DAC-1. Sounds great.

[muziekschuur]

Find it at http://www.tascamforums.com then go to surroundsound (scroll down). There you will find the answers you are looking for,

Regards,

Muziekschuur