How much should I be charging now?

[MattiMattMatt]

Ah, life's little coincidences.

I was on the horn yesterday with Madrigal, the company that sells the Mark Levinson stuff. I wrote an article for MIX about them a while ago, and was playing matchmaker for a guy who designed a piece of equipment they might have an interest in manufacturing. I happened to ask them about Ravel, which I thought they simply distributed, but apparently they now own and make it as well.

Thus:

Harman owns Madrigal. Madrigal owns, makes and sells several different lines of audio equipment, including Mark Levinson, Proceed, and Ravel. Mark Levinson, the person, has had nothing to do with Mark Levinson audio products for a very long time, after selling his name and line to Madrigal. After Mark Levinson Audio became part of Madrigal Audio, Mark Levinson, the person (who could no longer produce equipment under his own name) formed Cello, and as thethrillfactor pointed out, some of the major audio heads like Ludwig and G. Meadows installed Cello stuff in their studios in order to follow Mark Levinson, the person. Cello made very expensive stuff, and was popular in Japan, and on high-end yachts.

Cello crumpled, and Mark Levinson, the person, opened up a new company with a new line of equipment that's a bit more affordable: "Red Rose" in NYC. The ML audio systems on the Lexus are therefore made by Madrigal, not Mark Levinson, the person, who has been competing against products that bear his name ever since he sold it to Madrigal.

thethrillfactor -- maybe you wish you could do my graphics, but I wish I had your amps.



-MattiMattMatt

[Ted]

I don't know what I'm thinking, sorry Thrill, I knew Revel was owned Madrigal, brain fart. Kevin definately designed the Revel speakers though. I aggree for today's music the Snells are alittle to type "b" for the job but for 7.1 home theatre they rock. I love the old ML amps. I love my #39 player too.

Thanks,
Ted.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey a $5000 amp on your NS10's, not bad.

But i think I can beat that.

I had the crossovers on my NS10's totally tuned and changed(new everything, the wire alone was like $500). The amplifier I am using is an $18,000 Mark Levinson.

I gotta ask, what's the point to using a $5K amp or an $18K amp on a pair of $250 speakers? Why not sink that cash into some monitors that don't need a lot of bullshit to sound decent, good or even great? I just don't get it.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
I gotta ask, what's the point to using a $5K amp or an $18K amp on a pair of $250 speakers? Why not sink that cash into some monitors that don't need a lot of bullshit to sound decent, good or even great? I just don't get it.

Hey Jay,

Don't get me wrong,I have better monitors that I use the ML's on. Its just since I still depend on NS10's when mixing(yeah I know), ...I try to give them the love and attention they deserve.

And they return the love by giving me great mixes!!!
(You go NS10's!!!).

NS10's are infamous for being selective on power(amplifiers). Once you find a combination that works you stick with it(well i do anyway). It just so happens that they sound killer for me in this situation(and over 15 years I've tried several).

Hey maybe I'll try an Audio One Amplifier($250K for 25W) next time!!! rollz

Just kidding Jay!!!
(I hope you didn't get a heart attack!!)

[jon]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
I gotta ask, what's the point to using a $5K amp or an $18K amp on a pair of $250 speakers? Why not sink that cash into some monitors that don't need a lot of bullshit to sound decent, good or even great? I just don't get it.

Hi Jay,

Amp quality is a pretty valid thing in my world, and the hand-picked amp will usually be much better than the one inside most stock powered nearfields.

NS10s with a good amp behind them work better for me than anything else I've found for mixing.

I've gotta go with thrill here. What he said all the way.

Hey, many freelancers work in our 9k room, and some of them who demand NS10s are under 25 or under 30 -- not at all "old school diehards" like some of ya'll might imagine NS10 or SSL users to be.

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
I gotta ask, what's the point to using a $5K amp or an $18K amp on a pair of $250 speakers? Why not sink that cash into some monitors that don't need a lot of bullshit to sound decent, good or even great? I just don't get it.

Some people only want NS-10s. Besides, everyone thinks our NS-10s sound best with the Crwon MacroReference on 'em...

[Curious G]

At first I thought it was odd that the original topic: "What should I be charging now" was posted in the high-end forum, especially when he was talking about a $40/hour rate card... but I'm glad to see things have gotten back on topic (or at least "high end") with $18k amps etc...

Keep up the good work!

btw, what do think he needs to charge to pay for his new $18k amp???grggt grggt grggt

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Curious G
btw, what do think he needs to charge to pay for his new $18k amp???grggt grggt grggt

Well I know guys here in the city that are throwing "gentleman get togethers"or as I call them "stripper" parties in their studios on weekends.

They invite 50-75 industry people(A&R,executives,entertainment lawyers, artists, management and such) charge $50-$75 each for 6-8 hours of booze,music(new talent performs) and strippers. On a weekend they rake in ($5k-$7.5K). The industry people like them because they can bring clients that they are trying to schmooze with,management like them because they help the artist relax and meet industry people and lastly for the studio holding it , major labels can get to see a studio they wouldn't normally see. One of these parties has a "gentlemans Spa"(massage parlor) right next door to it. When the party is over you can go next door and get a "gentlemans" massage if you like.

Hey this is the big city for ya. Free enterprise(or not so free) at its best.

[Curious G]

Jeeze... and I thought doin' voice-overs was "slummin' it"

Well there you you have it Jon/Nemesis... time to call in the strippers (er, uh, gentlemen's assistants). What a business...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Curious G
Jeeze... and I thought doin' voice-overs was "slummin' it"

Well there you you have it Jon/Nemesis... time to call in the strippers (er, uh, gentlemen's assistants). What a business...

Hey Curious G,

The studio business isn't about glamour...its about survival!!!

No one is in this business for the money(and if you are you will be sadly dissapointed). You do it because you foolishly love it and somehow you think you want to try to make a living of it.

The survivalist mentality says "you do what you have to do to survive". Yeah you can sit in a corner and pout and cry"woe is me". Or you can do something about it no matter how orthodox.

We can all talk about mailings,going to all the musicians in the area,internet mailings...blah,blah,blah. Been there done that(so has every Tom,Dick and Harry who just got his little PT setup and wants it to pay for itself). In these new times, you need new fresh ideas no matter how crazy to stay in the ball game.

Hey I owned a big studio once(large live room,pool table in the lounge,etc) and quickly saw that when that large live room wasn't being used, it was just that a large room(not a tracking facility)just an empty room. You think my landlord cared that I was providing a service to the music community(most tracking places in NYC are small)...Hell NO!!! He just cared that the rent got paid or get out.

I wised up and decided when it wasn't being used I would rent it out. I had a friend who was a photographer and he would bring his models in and shoot his catalog stuff. From that situation I met a lot of people who were in the entertainment business and liked the vibe of the studio and booked it(not too mention I got to date a lot of cute models).

I also had some clients do live internet broadcast from my live room(in different languages) with a live audience. We would record it and have it ready for broadcast. Same thing happened, i got to meet a lot of diifferent music artists from around the world(some that are still my clients to this day) because they liked me and the place they came back.

Hey it can be done. Its not easy and sometimes its not glamourous but it can be done. You just have to be willing to do whatever it takes, if you want it bad enough.

[Curious G]

Thrill, I hear you loud and clear. Been doin' this for 20 years now full time (14 of 'em in my own studio). Lot's of voice work, no gold records, very little glamour. Just jerkin' your chain about the strippers... and anyway, if that's the game plan, why would you need an $18k amp?


(Answer: because with the strippers you CAN afford an $18k amp???)

That's it then I'm bringin' in the hookers err... gentlemen's helpers next session!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Curious G
Thrill, I hear you loud and clear. Been doin' this for 20 years now full time (14 of 'em in my own studio). Lot's of voice work, no gold records, very little glamour. Just jerkin' your chain about the strippers... and anyway, if that's the game plan, why would you need an $18k amp?


(Answer: because with the strippers you CAN afford an $18k amp???)

That's it then I'm bringin' in the hookers err... gentlemen's helpers next session!

Hey Curious,

Maybe you should be jerking one of the strippers chains instead of mine!!!
(Just kidding!!!)

And with the whole $18K amp thing, if I remember correctly i only paid $5K i think(my partner is an audiophile dealer). I purchased the amps for a pair of audiophile speakers(Gradients or Walcotts if i remember). One day one of my Brystons went down and I was stuck for an amp, so I brought the ML's in out of curiosity and they stayed ever since.

Like I posted earlier a pair of 2BST(mono bridged) or a 4B works just fine. On a tighter budget, the Stewart line sounds excellent with NS10's.

Keep me posted when the strippers... sorry...gentlemen's helpers arer coming. I have some new clients that maybe looking for a studio in your area all of a sudden.

[Jay Kahrs]

I'm totally not opposed to putting a good amp on nearfields. But putting a $5K or greater amp on $250 speakers is nuts unless you have the cash to burn on it. I sure as hell don't and if I had $5K to spend on monitors, well it wouldn't be NS-10's. Hell, I bought my set before they were discontined for $200 and when the annoucement went out I sold them for $450 because they hadn't been used at all in at least six months and some chucklehead offered me $450 for them. If a freelancer needs to use them they usually bring them with them, just like Questeds, Genelecs or whatever else. Hell, I'm 24 and I'm a die-hard tape guy. I just dislike NS-10's, I can work on them but I don't like them.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
I'm totally not opposed to putting a good amp on nearfields. But putting a $5K or greater amp on $250 speakers is nuts unless you have the cash to burn on it. I sure as hell don't and if I had $5K to spend on monitors, well it wouldn't be NS-10's. Hell, I bought my set before they were discontined for $200 and when the annoucement went out I sold them for $450 because they hadn't been used at all in at least six months and some chucklehead offered me $450 for them. If a freelancer needs to use them they usually bring them with them, just like Questeds, Genelecs or whatever else. Hell, I'm 24 and I'm a die-hard tape guy. I just dislike NS-10's, I can work on them but I don't like them.

Hey Jay,

Understood. Sometimes I do admit it can get ridiculous(or feel ridiculous).

Out of curiosity what are you using for your nearfields..the Mackies?

Curious.

Peace.

[MattiMattMatt]

thethrillfactor:

So the REAL question is how many "gentleman's parties" have YOU hosted in your tracking room.....?



-MattiMattMatt

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by MattiMattMatt
thethrillfactor:

So the REAL question is how many "gentleman's parties" have YOU hosted in your tracking room.....?



-MattiMattMatt

Hey Matti,

The answer is none. I am no longer in the studio business(even though as I speak I am building a control room with vocal booth in it).

But you could say since I know the guys that throw these get togethers, on occasion...well since I do know these guys I have "popped" in from time to time.

Hey I am just supporting the recording community. Just playing my part.

You know there are pictures from some of these get togethers. Maybe Jules will let me post....

Nah..come to think of it. Some of the executives that I've seen there may not be too happy to see their pictures over the internet.grudge

Sorry guys you will just have to use your imaginations.

[thethrillfactor]

Just so I don't come across sexist, women do attend these get togethers(not just the strippers).

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by slipperman
Boy TF. I dunno.

Ever get the feeling that your 'relationship' with your monitoring situation is the biggest factor in why you're still getting paid to do it?

I sure as heck do.

Makes a man willing to ANYTHING to attain and maintain the best possible 'status quo'.

SM.

Hey Slip,

I totally agree. I am so superstitous at times, that I have specific monitors for specific client/producers.

Some of the producer/arrangers music i mix just seem to shine better on certain monitors. I also classify my monitors for certain kinds of music(ie.pop,RnB,Rock,etc).

At the moment I am using something like 5-6 different monitors. I am always looking for something better. Lately I've been delving into audiophile monitors.

I have 3 different kinds of NS10's(super modified,ported, and regular). Sometimes I will bring one to a studio in which I hear problems in their control rooms(ie if the room is too reflective or too absorptive).

At this time in my career just leaving things too chance is just not an option. Maybe 10 years ago when I was younger(and even more stupid than I am now), but those days are long gone.

on wood!!!

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey Jay,

Understood. Sometimes I do admit it can get ridiculous(or feel ridiculous).

Out of curiosity what are you using for your nearfields..the Mackies?

Curious.

Tannoy PMB 6.5II's and the Mackie 824's are midfield/mains. I've been using the Tannoy's for years and recently I haven't been too knocked out by them. Seems like there's too much energy around 4-8khz and I'm constantly misjudging the amount of presence and top in my work. When it seems like it's right I need another 3-4dB. I only use the Wackies for judging the bottom and low-mids. There's something going on in the upper mids that I don't like. It's not bad, but they don't sound natural to me. I just finished a demo of the Truth Audio nearfields which I liked a lot. Too bad they aren't sheilded otherwise I probably would've been writing a check rather then putting them back in the box. Ah well.