lets talk reverb

[Carnivale]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnivale
I want the vocals to have a certain lush spacey feel to it and yet make my Delay/reverb combination as invisible as possible. Make the vocals upfront and close in a huge space. How would you tackle this task?


the key to the invisibility factor for me is, primarily, in the eq on the return. a little hipass to clear out the mud, a lot of lowpass to get rid of articulation. carve those effects so they sit behind the voice, pan them so they flank it, and mix them so they float below. in other words, get them to wrap around the element, fill out the space but leave the voice front and center.

not enough predelay on the verb will muddy the voice and make it distant. too much predelay will make the effect obvious and disconnected.

compress the verb return too. experiment with feeding delay->verb and verb->delay. try ducking the result with the voice as the key, so that the effects pull back when the voice is working and then push up (gently) when the phrase ends. or be a real man and move that fader yourself.

my own philosophy is that i generally want the effect of the effect, not the effect itself. michael brauer also put forth the image of the effects acting as a thread that ties the voice back to the music. both of those ideas serve me well.

don't skimp on your attentions to the fx; they need to be extremely effective at near-invisible levels, and that takes a lot of work and a lot of listening.


gregoire

Thanks gregoire! Some things in this thread are definitely going to be printed out and will be kept as a reference or as an inspirational prayer/tuner that needs to be meditated upon before every mix.
In terms of lowpass, (we talking female vox here that is not sibilant) where would you start (approximately)?

Thanks again!

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Carnivale

In terms of lowpass, (we talking female vox here that is not sibilant) where would you start (approximately)?

if this is a showcase vocal, huge lows and soft top with a lot of space in the mix, i'll pull that lowpass down to 2k, 1k, even as low as 800. hipass 200-400. it's seriously bandlimited, and the fx tend to be something between a blur and an articulated sound.


gregoire
del
ubk
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[Carnivale]

Yes, I just tried it and it certainly works! There are still many mysteries to solve though - one of them is how to allocate the reverb space to other instruments in the mix? How would you keep the consistency of a “chosen” space? Different predelay values of the same preset? Different length of the reverb tail? Or different reverb all together?
Again, I understand there are no rules but somehow, I think art schools were invented for a reason.
Thanks

[pw8888]

I love reverb....
I use :
EMT 250
EMT 246
EMT 140
Lex 480
Lex Pcm 70
AKG ADR68K
Eventide Princeton 2016
DRE S777
REV 7
SPX 990
Klark Technics DN780
Ensoniq DP4+

I will always EQ the sends....not the return.
Filtering is very important.

UBIK and THRILL said it all....

[markus enochson]

i would love to have the adr 68. anyone selling?

i love old plates, emt 251 and ursa major.

m

Originally Posted by Ruudman

I like several verbs in a mix, but I also like to feed to one main
reverb. One trick is to add different pre-delays to each track send, then the main verb appears less muddy.

The 8000 verb is magnificent thumbsup

I use old lo-end stuff these days, so I'm happy with my
ADR 68k and SRV-330, in addition to software.

I also like distant miking, to give some air around things.


ruudman

[pw8888]

Very different beast.
I really CANNOT compare it to any other reverb unit.
Not better ,just different.
I sampled a lot of different spaces with it and that's great to use on the mixe.
Sound : Amazing converter.Very very good sounding.Never "too bright".smooth.wide.
But very long to load (and to switch between prg).I paid mine FULL OPTION ,wih sample card ,Ver2,+ all the CD with it : 2700us$.
In one word : Very natural reverb. (Don' t expect the "pop" side of the Lex.)

P.

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by effectsnut

i would like to know who uses outboard reverb and what units people are useing.. i have a eventide h8000 and i love the verbs.
but i recently feel i use too much reverb so i backed off of it and i like what i hear..so whats your opinion? what do you think about early reflections are they musical to your ears or not...how do you use reverb? i like to put several tracks in a room like bass and guitars are there any rules to follow..

480L, H8000, 224XL, M300, PCM70, coupla PCM42's. Abandoned most plug-in reverb, occasional Altiverb when client insists.

I'm not a fan of the ER (early reflections) that are used in, say, most Yamaha alg's for example. I like the way Lexicon approached this, as a ramp up blossom of reverb instead of the sharp defined ER's followed by the reverb later.

Most folks wouldn't record in a square or rectangular room yet this is what the ER's sort of emulate.

Example: Balloon pop,

POP... Po Po Po Po Po Po p p p p...

We simply wouldn't record there if we were using that space for ambience.

[edvdr76]

I use around 3 or 4 verbs and effects on my mixes. Depending on the music and the song but I usually will change effects on every song. In my studio I have a Lexicon 300 which is awsome. I also have a TC M5000, Sony V77, Yamaha SPX 900, SPX 90, SPX 2000, and a few Roland Verbs that I can't remember their model numbers.

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Yeah this works.

Again its genre specific.


The secret is the pre delay you choose.

These days i tend to go with older delay units with newer reverb units or newer delays with older reverbs chained together.

The predelay lets you soften the vocal and reverb(more chorusing) or make it cleaner and clearer(better for short ambiences).

Of course automating it does wonders.

Another trick is to send the reverb to a modulation unit(such as plate into a chorus,flanger or phaser).

Again you get different sounds.

Just wondering why not use the pre delays right in the reverb units themselves?

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

the IRs sound always a bit thinner, less colourful, sometimes slightly metallic etc. (be it "real spaces" or just sampled gear)...

The IR's sounded that way to me too.

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

So many people claim they sold their boxes after they heard those amazing IR reverbs. Is it just my impression ? ?

I did just the opposite.